DEL Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 No keep academy open. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Millenniumram Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 4 minutes ago, BobbyD said: I hope the lad does well, its in all our interests that he does. But signings like these makes me question the whole point of having an academy. If we really cannot plug our gaps with players from the first team periphery and the academy then you have to question its whole validity. On the face of it, this guy has no right to walk into the first team. He is not adding to the strength of the team. He is not clearly superior to what we already have and its not as if we would be daft not to add him to our squad. And yet he now becomes a member of the first team squad Hanson, Elsnick, Rawson, they are now yet another step away from getting their chance. Even Bryson could take up the role of defensive midfielder if required. He now has less options at the club. Personally I would shut the academy, cut our losses and just rely on the transfer market when needed. Its what we have always done anyway. So you would shut down the academy that produced will Hughes, argueably the most valuable player in the division, as well as Jeff Hendrick who now plays in the premier league following a big money transfer, tom Huddlestone- a former international footballer and premier league regular as well as other prospects coming through like max Lowe who's now possibly our first choice left back when fit? Although the rest of your arguement has merit, that's just a ludicrous statement IMO- there's other ways to solve the issues you raise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyD Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 2 minutes ago, Millenniumram said: So you would shut down the academy that produced will Hughes, argueably the most valuable player in the division, as well as Jeff Hendrick who now plays in the premier league following a big money transfer, tom Huddlestone- a former international footballer and premier league regular as well as other prospects coming through like max Lowe who's now possibly our first choice left back when fit? Although the rest of your arguement has merit, that's just a ludicrous statement IMO- there's other ways to solve the issues you raise Yes The productivity you detail is woeful. Huddlestone was about 10 years ago - we got £1m for him Jeff was a success , no doubt. Not even a first team regular or valued by many supporters ( bit like Tom ) but his fee justifies that statement. Max Lowe - clearly the jurys out Will is a work in progress but yes, a great home grown product who should fetch a big fee Not much to say for so many years of work, is it ? In your view, what is the point of the academy M ? And lets hear about those other solutions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Millenniumram Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 2 minutes ago, BobbyD said: Yes The productivity you detail is woeful. Huddlestone was about 10 years ago - we got £1m for him Jeff was a success , no doubt. Not even a first team regular or valued by many supporters ( bit like Tom ) but his fee justifies that statement. Max Lowe - clearly the jurys out Will is a work in progress but yes, a great home grown product who should fetch a big fee Not much to say for so many years of work, is it ? In your view, what is the point of the academy M ? And lets hear about those other solutions. Huddlestone should have been worth far more than he was, we were robbed of the money for him- but surely he can still be used as an example of what we can produce in terms of quality. In terms of Lowe obviously it's early days, but IMO if he isn't established as first choice by 2018 in left back position I'll be surprised, he looks to have everything. Obviously there should really be more produced than there has been- however moor farm hasn't been established that long and it was always going to take a while for it to start kicking out lots of good prospects- we just have to be patient. The point of the academy in my view is very simple- produce players to either fit in our first team, or get to a good enough level to be sold for a reasonable fee, as well as provide emergency backup to the first team. I abolsutely agree however with the initial points you made, young players at the club do struggle for chances and it is difficult to do something about as it's a massive risk to bring unproven youngsters into a team gunning for promotion- this is why loans are preferred right now believe. However I think the best solution here would simply be if a players good enough, and they need to be good enough- then take the risk sometimes and only use loans in more emergency situations- like the situation we find ourselves in now with practically no senior midfielders available, it's too much of a risk to carry on for the next few games relying on youngsters IMO. Obviously however it's difficult to know when it's the right time to introduce youngsters, but the benefits they can give us outweighs the negatives of running an academy imo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richinspain Posted January 7, 2017 Share Posted January 7, 2017 Every club should have an academy. Depending on the size of the club the academy will have a different function. Lower league clubs will be looking for local lads to later introduce in to the first team and then sell on for a good fee. As you go up the leagues the net should be ever widening to pick up any talent available. Clubs like Chelsea, the 2 Manchester clubs etc have huge academies with 20, 30 or even 40 players out on loan. Very very few are local lads or even lads that have spent 8, 9 or 10 years at the club. Man U have recently brought through Rashford but between him and Giggs how many true academy products have they had? The bigger clubs bring in young foreign players, develop them and then move them on allowing money to spend on star imports. The real exception to this is Southampton, but their academy has been well run for donkey's years. We are in a situation where we are trying to push on from a middle sized academy to competing with the big boys. Some argue that we have brought through relatively few youth players but we are in a position where we want to push on the first team to get promotion, and any young player really will have to be extra special to get a chance at the moment. Lowe looks as though he may be one that does it. There are a couple more that just might also. Mel Morris hasn't invested all that money to just turn around and scrap the idea. We are in a phase of bringing in good foreign youngsters, but it will take time. One really good academy player a year breaking into the first team would be an incredible return in my opinion. Time is however needed to get even to that point. Let's just carry on as we are and I'm sure, doing it the Derby Way will be success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rynny Posted January 7, 2017 Share Posted January 7, 2017 10 hours ago, BobbyD said: Yes The productivity you detail is woeful. Huddlestone was about 10 years ago - we got £1m for him Jeff was a success , no doubt. Not even a first team regular or valued by many supporters ( bit like Tom ) but his fee justifies that statement. Max Lowe - clearly the jurys out Will is a work in progress but yes, a great home grown product who should fetch a big fee Not much to say for so many years of work, is it ? In your view, what is the point of the academy M ? And lets hear about those other solutions. With the recent investment of the academy to see the true benefits is going to take time, it isn't an instant success. Is spending money going to turn the players on the peripheral of the first team/in the under-23 squad into first team quality players over night? The youngsters that are going to benefit from the improvement are the younger players, 8-14 year olds, it may take 5 years for it to really churn out the type of players we would all love in our first team, local lads, that support the team and want to be here for their entire career (ok I am going a little ott but you get what I mean) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clarkeram7 Posted January 7, 2017 Share Posted January 7, 2017 I share your disappointment in its productivity, players aren't really get given any sort of opportunity however if we want to go up it's not really the place to be experimenting. A hard one to balance but Southampton are a great example: just this season they've introduced another couple in Sims and McQueen. I think it should be part of our structure and McClaren's measures considering how much we invest in our academy and the facilities in comparison to other teams. I can't see why Vernam or Rawson haven't been used more often considering where we've had problems or injuries.. Rawson has 25/30 games already at this level and our current U23 captain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted January 7, 2017 Share Posted January 7, 2017 15 minutes ago, clarkeram7 said: I can't see why Vernam or Rawson haven't been used more often considering where we've had problems or injuries.. Rawson has 25/30 games already at this level and our current U23 captain. Why would they play more currently? Instead of who?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clarkeram7 Posted January 7, 2017 Share Posted January 7, 2017 18 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said: Why would they play more currently? Instead of who?! Rawson can play right full back, more of a natural defender than when Hanson has filled in. Neither Vydra or Bent have claimed that striking role, I'm not suggesting he starts but a few introductions from the bench to show us what he can do? It's clear we are in the market for adding another striker, so with his record in the reserves it would be fair to suggest he gets given an opportunity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted January 7, 2017 Share Posted January 7, 2017 3 minutes ago, clarkeram7 said: Rawson can play right full back, more of a natural defender than when Hanson has filled in. Neither Vydra or Bent have claimed that striking role, I'm not suggesting he starts but a few introductions from the bench to show us what he can do? It's clear we are in the market for adding another striker, so with his record in the reserves it would be fair to suggest he gets given an opportunity. So instead of Vydra or Baird? He/they might well get a go today in the cup, but would you want to risk points and/or their confidence if things didn't go well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kernow Posted January 7, 2017 Share Posted January 7, 2017 Only good things to say about him so far on Radio Derby. Then again, he's getting a lot of space and that'll suit his style of play. Good signs so far, let's hope he keeps it up at our level when he'll have much less time on the ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rammieib Posted January 7, 2017 Share Posted January 7, 2017 If he had better quality players around him.... he's been superb so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRam Posted January 7, 2017 Share Posted January 7, 2017 So we have to sign this guy on a permanent now right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kernow Posted January 7, 2017 Share Posted January 7, 2017 How long before he goes on strike at Boro to push a move here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sexydadbod Posted January 7, 2017 Share Posted January 7, 2017 He is certainly De Sart of player we have needed in the midfield for a while Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRam Posted January 7, 2017 Share Posted January 7, 2017 I so hope we want to sign at him at the end of the summer and he wants to come, I don't care about actually signing him I just love a good saga. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam the Ram Posted January 7, 2017 Share Posted January 7, 2017 1 minute ago, SaintRam said: So we have to sign this guy on a permanent now right? Exactly what I told my Boro supporting friend when he signed. He said, "hopefully he gets game time and proves himself to be good enough to challenge for our first team next season." To which I replied, "if he's good enough he's staying here permanently ... I bet Stone Cold Sam Rush has already started laying the foundations for it." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1977 Ram Raider Posted January 7, 2017 Share Posted January 7, 2017 3 minutes ago, SaintRam said: So we have to sign this guy on a permanent now right? No, George will be back next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRam Posted January 7, 2017 Share Posted January 7, 2017 Just now, 1977 Ram Raider said: No, George will be back next season. Who? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1977 Ram Raider Posted January 7, 2017 Share Posted January 7, 2017 2 minutes ago, SaintRam said: Who? Tut tut shame on you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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