Norwich City vs Derby County - matchday thread.

[1967Ram]

Just now, Wolfie20 said:

It shouldn't have offended anyone, just frustrated or annoyed at worst but good on you anyway. Can I suggest you consider either tranquillisers or sleeping tablets before the next away match - you do seem to get really wound-up as soon as something goes wrong. For longstanding fans these things are the norm.

Beer works too ........................................ as long as you drink it! 

[jono]

 I haven't got a cat, but even if I had it could rest easy. These things happen. 

I don't normally agree with @Bris Vegas but it is clear, not just from today, that the link between midfield and attack isn't as good as it should be. Martin won't change that to any great degree. 

Hoping the right sort of creative AM can be found and a striker with a full set of tools so we can move from being good on our day to consistently dangerous. This is a team sport and fine margins between success and failure. We have a team now and will bounce back but looking reflectively at where we are and how we can move a couple of degrees forward:

 Back is solid, Johnson can continue as DM and George is on the mend. We have a curious mix of left footed players in Ince, Camara, Weiman but it seems to me, not so many right footed equivalents. 

I don't think we have a great recipe in the mid/attack area when faced with stubborn opposition. The ingredients are pretty sound but the mix could be improved. It's never about one player it's about a system and complimentary skills. 

For me, someone to pair well with Hughes and feed the front line. 

[Millenniumram]

12 minutes ago, Wolfie20 said:

It shouldn't have offended anyone, just frustrated or annoyed at worst but good on you anyway. Can I suggest you consider either tranquillisers or sleeping tablets before the next away match - you do seem to get really wound-up as soon as something goes wrong. For longstanding fans these things are the norm.

Haha, I have come to expect these things now, I dread to think what I'd be like if I hadn't witnessed *that* season, of which I'm sure you know what I'm talking about, as one of my earliest memories of football as a whole. It's because if that, that when we get on a good run I probably go over the top then get all the more frustrated when it ends, particularly in the fashion it did today- some would say I'm a wrist slasher, I'll just call myself a perfectionist

[Mafiabob]

It happens, cup match may be blessing in disguise. We move on.....

[TroyDyer]

I thought the Wigan result might have helped us keep our feet grounded, and I think this result will more than do the same. We aren't a great team, but SM managed to get something out the players, and we have had a fantastic run. Had we beaten Wigan and got a draw or a 1-0 win today, people would be saying to leave the team as it is. 

Personally I think this has happened at the right time. We need a striker, a left back, a winger that can go past players, and basically a good on form Hendrick that can get beyond the striker in the way Bryson used to. 

As much as I love him as a guy, Russell isn't good enough and hasn't been for too long for it to be a blip. Butterfield IMO was never good enough for the position he plays. Sits too deep, gives the ball away and too often when near the 12 yard box, hammers the ball into row z. 

At least it's January and not March. 

 

 

[SuperDerbySuperRams]

Johnson poor twice for their first goal. Ince misses the sitter and Butterfield goes minutes after, stupid tackle. Vydra looked disinterested, never stays central, not up for getting stuck in. Need Martin or an alternative in ASAP. 

3-0 flattered us, could and should of been more. Odd to see them doing so poorly with a squad and performance like that. 

We move on. 

[G STAR RAM]

1 hour ago, McLovin said:

Can you read? I didn't say that our whole team is **** but the great run covered over the cracks somewhat in certain positions. In the great run we were only really fluent against Forest. Every other game we relied either on individual quality(Ince) and the defence. Individual quality will help you win a lot of games in this league but against the better teams like Norwich we need a bit more than that.

I think it's a very valid point you make.

During our good run we heavily relied on our forwards trying to score and our defenders stopping the opposition from scoring.

We were very lucky that on a numerous occasions this happened.

Just hope McClaren is clever enough to realise that we will not win every game using this tactic.

If Michael Owen is ever ill, would you be available to fill in for him?

[PodgeyRam]

Well, we all knew  the run was going to end sooner or later andate really it's no surprise it happened today.

We started well and the crowd were just beginning get to turn  on themy when Johnson gave the ball away. He jumped in to try a different win it back but the Norwich player just nipped it past him. Oliveira picked the ball up and hit the ball into the corner of the net. Thought Carson maybe could've done better with the shot. This was to set the tone of the match highlights with Johnson mishitting the ball and  constantly missing the ball in his attempts to win it back. 

We were shook by their goal and they spent the rest of the half camped in our part of the pitch. Carson kept the score down with several savesmall that he would've expected to make but should still get credit for doing so.

We were still in it at half time, but Norwich continued to dominate and threaten. Ince had a chance after somehow sliding into the box but Ruddy stood up well to deny him. 

Then a double blow. Anya pulled up with an injury, the kind that looks like it keeps you out for weeks/months instead of days. Hanson was put at left back, but I aouod'very rather put Johnson there and Hanson in midfield.  Then Butterfield got sent off. I can see why the ref gave it, he launched himself at the ball and his studs were up. He won the ball and Howson grossly over reacted, but he can still have no complaints. 

Game was effectively over at that point and Norwich pinned us back even more. They deserved their 2nd and 3rd goals. It was poor marking for the 2nd, a norwich player flicked it on at the near post and Oliveira had no player in 5 yards of him. He headed it in first time.  The 3rd came minutes later, he pounced on a poor clearence  (I think?) And smashed the ball inton the corner through a  crowd of players. They could've scored more and I wouldn't have begrudged them that. 

I'll go through player performances in another post.

[NorwichLad]

1 hour ago, Paul71 said:

thanks for posting....harsh, doesnt get the ball nor does he catch him with his boot...booking yes. Reaction of norwich players got him sent off....

What reaction from Norwich players?  

Harsh red, but I think you've imagined that bit. 

[Sparkle]

13 minutes ago, SuperDerbySuperRams said:

Johnson poor twice for their first goal. Ince misses the sitter and Butterfield goes minutes after, stupid tackle. Vydra looked disinterested, never stays central, not up for getting stuck in. Need Martin or an alternative in ASAP. 

3-0 flattered us, could and should of been more. Odd to see them doing so poorly with a squad and performance like that. 

We move on. 

Worrying about Vydra effort,

3 minutes ago, NorwichLad said:

What reaction from Norwich players?  

Harsh red, but I think you've imagined that bit. 

All teams get harsh reds throughout the season though, we got one about 3 days ago. 

Well done on your win, we have been moving towards that sadly with performances lately but we still are missing lots of players in reality who should help us (probably next season) 

[NorwichLad]

8 minutes ago, Sparkle said:

Well done on your win, we have been moving towards that sadly with performances lately but we still are missing lots of players in reality who should help us (probably next season) 

I'm not celebrating too wildly. We're now in a transfer window where we've go to sell to buy, and if this result isn't a turning point then its bought the manager more time - which isn't necessarily a good thing.

We've had similar seasons but in reverse it seems. You were bottom 3 when we were top 3, now find ourselves in a similar place in the table, with an important transfer window coming up and both with sets of fans speculating whether we can put together a run at the business end of the season.

If I had to bet a £5 on one of the two teams reaching the top 6 I'd put it on Derby today. But could very well find ourselves both in the top 6, or both out of the top 6, long way to go and a bit of a strange season! 

[Ambitious]

It's an eye-opening result. 

The last few weeks have seen us pick up injuries, run players into fatigue and we haven't had an answer for it. The players coming in simply aren't performing - Vydra, Weimann, Bryson...etc

I think we need to freshen up the squad a little bit, it's just difficult to get rid of players on high wages. I have no doubts about it, though, we need to spend. If we can't get Martin back, we need a striker in that can perform for a full 90 and do more than sit on the last man. 

The full back situation is just beyond belief - four left backs and our first choice right back injured. I'm sure we'll get our act on the transfer window.

[Derbyram1983]

Players that have come in haven't staked a claim. There not good enough. Weiman, vydra, Camara and Bryson will all be on good wages and we'll struggle to get rid. We've bought too much dead wood. Hopefully we can loan some of these out. I was hoping Hanson would ha e got a place in midfield today as he can pass unlike Bryson 

[BobbyD]

Totally predictable result

Awful team selection from Mac - what on earth was he thinking of ?

No problem losing the run , its just the manner of it

Still, I guess we have been punching above our weight for a while

 

[PodgeyRam]

RIght then. The performance. Norwich really did deserve the win and really should've scored more than the 3 they got. 

Carson - really kept the score respectable today. He would've expected to make most of the saves he did, but he still had to make them. His slow distribution didn't help us get a foothold in the match though.

Baird - did alright. Looked fairly comfortable defensively when we had 11 men, but like everyone else fell apart when we went down to 10. Didn't offer anything going forward but we know what we're getting with him.

Keogh and Pearce - these two are a unit so I do them together. They really struggled today with Oliveira and Naismith dropping deep. They never got to grips with them and they were never sure whether or not to go with the man or pass him on to Johnson. Should've known better than to show Oliveira on to his left foot for the first goal. 

Anya - amazing given that he's 4th choice left back, he wasn't the weak link. Threatening going forward and did most of his defensive work well. Shame about the injury, it really upset our rhythm. 

Johnson - really bad. Made two mistakes for the first goal (giving the ball away and then diving in to try and win it back.) The game passed him by. He wasn't as good as he normally is in the air, woeful on the ball, slow in the tackle and couldn't deal with Naismith and Oliveira dropping into the space  between him and the defence. A bad day following on from two average performances against Wigan and Birmingham. Hope we aren't going to get a repeat of his form from last season.

Butterfield - nightmare. You can mention his passing stats all you want, his lack of urgency kills any sort of forward momentum we have. The ball gets played forward from him, but 10 seconds too late and only after the opposition have set into their shape again. He wasn't helping Michael defensively, holding onto the ball for too long and his passing was poor. He may want to complain about the red card, but from where I was he deserved it - studs up, off the ground. Sure he got the ball and Howson made a lot of it, but it was a red card. It won't be rescinded. 

Bryson- felt sorry for him. He was trying to make something happen, but a lack of agency amongst his midfield compatriots held him back. He was breaking lines and harrying the opposition, but not being backed up well by certain players.

Ince - a frustrated figure. Had a great chance that he created out of nothing, but Ruddy did well to save it. The ball wasn't getting to him fast enough and by the time he got it, he had 2/3 players on him. Felt sorry for him really. 

Russell - I don't understand the criticism he gets. Was one of our best players in the first half, despite getting whacked from pillar to post by Norwich. Was taken off at half time and I suspect that was down to his limping rather than any bad performance. He wasn't that bad.

Vydra - anonymous is a polite way of putting it. Had a free kick that went wide early on and then proceeded to go missing for the rest of ther match. He's either unfit or lazy, not backing up the likes of Bryson, Russell, Ince and Anya when they press high. He doesn't offer enough on the ball at the moment to make that sort of play acceptable. People complain about Martin being lazy, but I think Vydra is worse I that department.

Weimann- made a good pass to Anya shortly after he came on. I genuinely can't remember him doing anything after that. Doesn't offer the defensive protection Russell does.

Hanson - came on for Anya and played left back, not his natural position. Did as well as he could, but I think Johnson should've moved out  to left back and Hanson moves into midfield even if it was to add a bit of snap that we lacked.

Bent - not sure whether he was fit or not. Even not fit he would've done more than Vydra. Far too late when he came on. Would've been better off bringing on Vernam and giving him some experience. 

[Bris Vegas]

46 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

I think it's a very valid point you make.

During our good run we heavily relied on our forwards trying to score and our defenders stopping the opposition from scoring.

We were very lucky that on a numerous occasions this happened.

Just hope McClaren is clever enough to realise that we will not win every game using this tactic.

If Michael Owen is ever ill, would you be available to fill in for him?

You don't really seem to grasp what McLovin is saying.

This is a team game, but we've for the best part of a month now been overly reliant on individual quality to get us through. This isn't a long-term strategy and sooner or later results will show.

Tom Ince has been amazing of late, but aside from him it's worrying how little we create, especially from open play. 

In the last five matches we've only scored two goals from open play. One was a wonderful finish from Ince vs QPR and the other another Ince goal against Fulham. 

Aside from those two, we've barely created anything.

If we were a defensive-minded side who sat back, looked to hit teams on the counter or via set-pieces and were used to playing this way I wouldn't be too worried.

But for a team who likes to dominate possession, attack the opposition and play positive football, the lack of goal threat is alarming and an area which really needs to be addressed.

The side is unbalanced. It's not like we're just shy of a Jordan Rhodes type striker who could net 15-20 goals, we're lacking in three or four areas and players to suit the way we play. Rhodes is a big no-no in our system. 

Having said all that, we're not far away and people really need to understand the mess which McClaren took over. Patience is needed, and IMO we shouldn't be downhearted if we miss out on the top six this season. It's a work in progress. We're miles away from the side we had in 2013/14, both in terms of quality and balance.

[Tony Le Mesmer]

Not a good day today but it's just one game for now. We can regroup and go again. Just disappointed for all the fans that made the journey and also the fact that we'll lose Butterfield for a few games.

Hopefully we can get a result in the FA Cup and get some confidence back.

[Duracell]

2 minutes ago, Bris Vegas said:

Having said all that, we're not far away and people really need to understand the mess which McClaren took over. Patience is needed, and IMO we shouldn't be downhearted if we miss out on the top six this season. It's a work in progress. We're miles away from the side we had in 2013/14, both in terms of quality and balance.

Don't always agree with you Bris but I do get frustrated on your behalf that your picking out of areas to improved gets confused with pessimism - or some kind of twisted thrill out of criticising the club.

I agree. We're not the finished article yet, and what happens this summer is probably more important than the rest of this season.

[LesterRam]

Conor Hourihane scored today, just saying  

[Sparkle]

9 minutes ago, PodgeyRam said:

RIght then. The performance. Norwich really did deserve the win and really should've scored more than the 3 they got. 

Carson - really kept the score respectable today. He would've expected to make most of the saves he did, but he still had to make them. His slow distribution didn't help us get a foothold in the match though.

Baird - did alright. Looked fairly comfortable defensively when we had 11 men, but like everyone else fell apart when we went down to 10. Didn't offer anything going forward but we know what we're getting with him.

Keogh and Pearce - these two are a unit so I do them together. They really struggled today with Oliveira and Naismith dropping deep. They never got to grips with them and they were never sure whether or not to go with the man or pass him on to Johnson. Should've known better than to show Oliveira on to his left foot for the first goal. 

Anya - amazing given that he's 4th choice left back, he wasn't the weak link. Threatening going forward and did most of his defensive work well. Shame about the injury, it really upset our rhythm. 

Johnson - really bad. Made two mistakes for the first goal (giving the ball away and then diving in to try and win it back.) The game passed him by. He wasn't as good as he normally is in the air, woeful on the ball, slow in the tackle and couldn't deal with Naismith and Oliveira dropping into the space  between him and the defence. A bad day following on from two average performances against Wigan and Birmingham. Hope we aren't going to get a repeat of his form from last season.

Butterfield - nightmare. You can mention his passing stats all you want, his lack of urgency kills any sort of forward momentum we have. The ball gets played forward from him, but 10 seconds too late and only after the opposition have set into their shape again. He wasn't helping Michael defensively, holding onto the ball for too long and his passing was poor. He may want to complain about the red card, but from where I was he deserved it - studs up, off the ground. Sure he got the ball and Howson made a lot of it, but it was a red card. It won't be rescinded. 

Bryson- felt sorry for him. He was trying to make something happen, but a lack of agency amongst his midfield compatriots held him back. He was breaking lines and harrying the opposition, but not being backed up well by certain players.

Ince - a frustrated figure. Had a great chance that he created out of nothing, but Ruddy did well to save it. The ball wasn't getting to him fast enough and by the time he got it, he had 2/3 players on him. Felt sorry for him really. 

Russell - I don't understand the criticism he gets. Was one of our best players in the first half, despite getting whacked from pillar to post by Norwich. Was taken off at half time and I suspect that was down to his limping rather than any bad performance. He wasn't that bad.

Vydra - anonymous is a polite way of putting it. Had a free kick that went wide early on and then proceeded to go missing for the rest of ther match. He's either unfit or lazy, not backing up the likes of Bryson, Russell, Ince and Anya when they press high. He doesn't offer enough on the ball at the moment to make that sort of play acceptable. People complain about Martin being lazy, but I think Vydra is worse I that department.

Weimann- made a good pass to Anya shortly after he came on. I genuinely can't remember him doing anything after that. Doesn't offer the defensive protection Russell does.

Hanson - came on for Anya and played left back, not his natural position. Did as well as he could, but I think Johnson should've moved out  to left back and Hanson moves into midfield even if it was to add a bit of snap that we lacked.

Bent - not sure whether he was fit or not. Even not fit he would've done more than Vydra. Far too late when he came on. Would've been better off bringing on Vernam and giving him some experience. 

That's a great report and thank you and it seems to mirror a lot of games for me