1967Ram Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 On 30/10/2016 at 10:50, Dimmu said: Not sure about penalty, the rules gives ref a lot of room to make his decisions. But I think we can all agree that it was stonewall mistake from Keogh. Again. Don't understand or agree with this viewpoint. Carson was MOTM but he made a mistake just before the Keogh incident. Carson should IMO have done better and pushed the ball back to the edge of the 6 yard box. Keogh's awareness was very good and he did all he could do - he went to cover the goal line and the ball was struck at him from point blank range. I think it struck his hand/arm after it had struck his chest. On another day the Ref gives a penalty but I don't think Keogh deliberately handled it. I think it was a stonewall bit of exceptional defending by Keogh. Again. (P.S. I'm not having a go at Carson. He had a great game). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilsonram12 Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 All in all, it was a superb goal clearance, wtf was Carson doing with the initial save though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ambitious Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 It's definitely a hand ball, no question about it. I don't think it's a red card, though. The law stipulates deliberate hand ball, which would be an impossibility given the speed of the shot and his time to react. All in all, the player who had the shot should be deducted a week's wages for not putting the chance away. Christie deserves a clip around the ear for ball watching and allowing him the opportunity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mihangel Posted November 1, 2016 Share Posted November 1, 2016 7 hours ago, Ambitious said: It's definitely a hand ball, no question about it. I don't think it's a red card, though. The law stipulates deliberate hand ball, which would be an impossibility given the speed of the shot and his time to react. You can't have it both ways though, for it to be handball, it has to be deliberate so it would be a red card. Personally, I don't think it could possibly be deliberate therefore no pen, no card. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamworthram Posted November 1, 2016 Share Posted November 1, 2016 20 hours ago, Phoenix said: You beat me to it. I've seen many missed/saved. No guarantee they would have gone ahead. But haven't you viewed any Wednesday message board? It was a game changing incident and it the penalty had been given and RK sent off it would have been a walk in the park (according to some of them). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted November 1, 2016 Share Posted November 1, 2016 I'm not saying that it was handball by Keogh, but let's just say that Sondico contacted him after the game to arrange some sponsorship Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddie Posted November 1, 2016 Share Posted November 1, 2016 3 hours ago, ShoreRam said: You can't have it both ways though, for it to be handball, it has to be deliberate so it would be a red card. Personally, I don't think it could possibly be deliberate therefore no pen, no card. No, it bloody well wouldn't be a red card. Christ, are you people all stupid? How many frigging times have you been told IN THIS THREAD that the penalty AND red card no longer apply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Animal is a Ram Posted November 1, 2016 Share Posted November 1, 2016 2 minutes ago, eddie said: No, it bloody well wouldn't be a red card. Christ, are you people all stupid? How many frigging times have you been told IN THIS THREAD that the penalty AND red card no longer apply. There's something about genuine attempt to play the ball - see the penalty we had against Cardiff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mihangel Posted November 1, 2016 Share Posted November 1, 2016 5 minutes ago, eddie said: No, it bloody well wouldn't be a red card. Christ, are you people all stupid? How many frigging times have you been told IN THIS THREAD that the penalty AND red card no longer apply. That's not the case though is it? http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/36047575 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MuespachRam Posted November 1, 2016 Share Posted November 1, 2016 Just seen it.... lets be honest, it's a penalty and we would have been fuming if we hadn't been awarded it ourselves. Also....terrible finishing by them.! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KBB Posted November 1, 2016 Share Posted November 1, 2016 11 hours ago, Ilsonram12 said: All in all, it was a superb goal clearance, wtf was Carson doing with the initial save though Bloke behind me went mental at Carson for not "holding it". looking at the save I think Carson was going to hold it initially, but at the last moment thought his momentum and the twisting of his body might cary his body or the ball over the line. I think he made a split second decision as he almost half catches it, then parries it out as he lost his orientation in relation to the goal line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Bad Bob Posted November 1, 2016 Share Posted November 1, 2016 Not read through all the pages, but I've watched the replay a few times in slow motion. The ball hits Keogh on the chest / stomach first, then on to his arm then on to his foot. Not wanting to add to the argument, but what do the rules state about a ricochet from chest on to arm? A question that I don't think has been asked, but what the hell was Christie doing? He was in no mans land ball watching with his hand in the air. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade 86 Posted November 1, 2016 Share Posted November 1, 2016 Can't believe this is a matter of debate - the ball was blasted at a defender making a block. It hits his arm and they'e given sometimes and not given sometimes. In this case it wasn't, we won two nil, the Wendies are crying about it but we move forward. After the endless crappy luck we've endured over the first 10 games, I'll take any bit of fortune going! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mihangel Posted November 1, 2016 Share Posted November 1, 2016 48 minutes ago, Big Bad Bob said: Not read through all the pages, but I've watched the replay a few times in slow motion. The ball hits Keogh on the chest / stomach first, then on to his arm then on to his foot. Not wanting to add to the argument, but what do the rules state about a ricochet from chest on to arm? A question that I don't think has been asked, but what the hell was Christie doing? He was in no mans land ball watching with his hand in the air. Unsurprisingly, they don't actually mention specific instances only things to consider when deciding on:- HANDLING THE BALL Handling the ball involves a deliberate act of a player making contact with the ball with the hand or arm. The following must be considered: the movement of the hand towards the ball (not the ball towards the hand) the distance between the opponent and the ball (unexpected ball) the position of the hand does not necessarily mean that there is an infringement touching the ball with an object held in the hand (clothing, shinguard, etc.) is an infringement hitting the ball with a thrown object (boot, shinguard, etc.) is an infringement Read more at http://www.thefa.com/football-rules-governance/lawsandrules/laws/football-11-11/law-12---fouls-and-misconduct#La9JYdXBWD18mVbP.99 Oh, and to shut people up who think it can't be a penalty AND a sending off:- Where a player denies the opposing team a goal or an obvious goal-scoring opportunity by a deliberate handball offence the player is sent off wherever the offence occurs. Read more at http://www.thefa.com/football-rules-governance/lawsandrules/laws/football-11-11/law-12---fouls-and-misconduct#La9JYdXBWD18mVbP.99 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spanish Posted November 1, 2016 Share Posted November 1, 2016 Interestingly the section on denial of a goal scoring opportunity (DOGSO) goes into more detail and specifically excludes the triple jeopardy option for handball. So I was wrong so thanks SR. The close proximity of the event and the resulting sending off probably influenced the ref not to give it. Hand ball needs to be clearly deliberate and results in peno, red card and suspension Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mihangel Posted November 1, 2016 Share Posted November 1, 2016 4 minutes ago, Spanish said: Interestingly the section on denial of a goal scoring opportunity (DOGSO) goes into more detail and specifically excludes the triple jeopardy option for handball. So I was wrong so thanks SR. The close proximity of the event and the resulting sending off probably influenced the ref not to give it. Hand ball needs to be clearly deliberate and results in peno, red card and suspension BTW, my 'shut up' was aimed at he who called me stupid, not yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spanish Posted November 1, 2016 Share Posted November 1, 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lrm14 Posted November 1, 2016 Share Posted November 1, 2016 2 hours ago, ShoreRam said: Oh, and to shut people up who think it can't be a penalty AND a sending off:- Where a player denies the opposing team a goal or an obvious goal-scoring opportunity by a deliberate handball offence the player is sent off wherever the offence occurs. Read more at http://www.thefa.com/football-rules-governance/lawsandrules/laws/football-11-11/law-12---fouls-and-misconduct#La9JYdXBWD18mVbP.99 Just because he can send him off if a penalty is given doesn't mean he should. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mihangel Posted November 1, 2016 Share Posted November 1, 2016 45 minutes ago, lrm14 said: Just because he can send him off if a penalty is given doesn't mean he should. But I don't see how we would have any option whatsoever, if he's given the penalty he's saying the Keogh deliberately handled, what choice could he possibly have? I don't think it was deliberate BTW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lrm14 Posted November 1, 2016 Share Posted November 1, 2016 4 minutes ago, ShoreRam said: But I don't see how we would have any option whatsoever, if he's given the penalty he's saying the Keogh deliberately handled, what choice could he possibly have? I don't think it was deliberate BTW Yeah it's a bit of a paradox, the rules say he can only give a handball if it's deliberate and therefore he has to send him off. What I'm trying to say is a lot of referee's seem to ignore the deliberate part and just go with if it hits your hand, which happens even if it doesn't say that in the rules. In which case you shouldn't send him off. The whole handball ruling is really confusing anyway, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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