Spanish Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 Deffo penalty, if it was us that missed out I would be fuming, not a red though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 Its a penalty but not a red in my opinion. Nice to see us get a bit of luck for a change so the Wendies boss can throw as big a tantrum as he likes but it doesn't alter the fact his team took none of the other chances they created and we did. Deal with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sith Happens Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 15 minutes ago, Spanish said: Deffo penalty, if it was us that missed out I would be fuming, not a red though But why not a red? Its either deliberate handball and a penalty/sending off for denying a goalscoring opportunity or not deliberate and therefore not a penalty? It wasnt deliberate so not a penatly, but i would have been shouting for it had it been against us of course i would. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spanish Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 3 minutes ago, Paul71 said: But why not a red? Its either deliberate handball and a penalty/sending off for denying a goalscoring opportunity or not deliberate and therefore not a penalty? It wasnt deliberate so not a penatly, but i would have been shouting for it had it been against us of course i would. Yep difficult one unless the ref uses some common sense, found this In Fifa's Laws of the Game 2005, Law 12 says a free-kick or penalty will be awarded if a player "handles the ball deliberately (except for the goalkeeper within his own penalty area)". Page 67 of the document gives "additional information for referees, assistant referees and fourth officials". It adds: "Referees are reminded that deliberately handling the ball is normally punished only by a direct free-kick or penalty kick if the offence occurred inside the penalty area. "A caution or dismissal is not normally required." interesting how how the current double jeopardy rules would be applied in these circumstances. Maybe I'm wrong but I am influenced by the place where the incident occurred, there is no doubt without the contact it would have been a goal. The ref thought otherwise so it wasn't a peno. Still say if that was us I would be angry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sage Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 29 minutes ago, Spanish said: Deffo penalty, if it was us that missed out I would be fuming, not a red though 2 minutes ago, Spanish said: Yep difficult one unless the ref uses some common sense, found this In Fifa's Laws of the Game 2005, Law 12 says a free-kick or penalty will be awarded if a player "handles the ball deliberately (except for the goalkeeper within his own penalty area)". Page 67 of the document gives "additional information for referees, assistant referees and fourth officials". It adds: "Referees are reminded that deliberately handling the ball is normally punished only by a direct free-kick or penalty kick if the offence occurred inside the penalty area. "A caution or dismissal is not normally required." interesting how how the current double jeopardy rules would be applied in these circumstances. Maybe I'm wrong but I am influenced by the place where the incident occurred, there is no doubt without the contact it would have been a goal. The ref thought otherwise so it wasn't a peno. Still say if that was us I would be angry So, do you think Keogh deliberately handled the ball? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddie Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 An observation... I get the impression from reading this thread that the Keogh haters wanted him to be sent off and a penalty awarded, even though the FIFA recommendations were amended from the start of this season to render such action inappropriate. It would have given them yet another excuse to castigate the man - doubly so if Derby had lost. To deny them such an opportunity by applying the laws of the game as they are now was both crass and inconsiderate action by the referee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spanish Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 The article goes on to say that deliberate is not defined. It Is probably the most debated event in football which is strange that it has never been resolved. The only reason it wasn't a goal was because of his hand. If the roles were reversed you wouldn't be upset it wasn't given? this was a resonse to sage, sorry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JarodyDCFC Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 Not sure it was deliberate as the ball came at Keogh at immense speed, but it clearly hits his arm and prevents an almost certain goal. It has to be a penalty otherwise anyone could unintentionally block a ball on the line with their hand. Definetly not a red card though. However I was looking on the Sheffield fans forum earlier and all of them are acting like the would've won if that penalty had gone in. Some fans are claiming that "it cost them three points" and that if a Sheffield defender did the same as Keogh then the ref would have given a penalty. Jesus. Why would a ref give two different decisions for the exact same foul? The Sheffield Wednesday fans are acting like sore losers because Derby thoroughly deserved the three points and they cannot take a simple moment of bad luck. It happens to everyone. Including Derby who have conceded 4 goals in the 90th minute this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gypsy Ram Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 I'm actually reaching the point of being disgusted by the level of keogh-hate displayed by some Derby fans. #thederbyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PistoldPete2 Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 8 minutes ago, JarodyDCFC said: Not sure it was deliberate as the ball came at Keogh at immense speed, but it clearly hits his arm and prevents an almost certain goal. It has to be a penalty otherwise anyone could unintentionally block a ball on the line with their hand. Definetly not a red card though. However I was looking on the Sheffield fans forum earlier and all of them are acting like the would've won if that penalty had gone in. Some fans are claiming that "it cost them three points" and that if a Sheffield defender did the same as Keogh then the ref would have given a penalty. Jesus. Why would a ref give two different decisions for the exact same foul? The Sheffield Wednesday fans are acting like sore losers because Derby thoroughly deserved the three points and they cannot take a simple moment of bad luck. It happens to everyone. Including Derby who have conceded 4 goals in the 90th minute this season. I don't think it was bad luck us conceding in the 90th minute four times... Just careless by Derby. But we are due some luck, we rarely get peno awards ourselves so makes a change for a decision to go our way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JarodyDCFC Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 17 minutes ago, PistoldPete2 said: I don't think it was bad luck us conceding in the 90th minute four times... Just careless by Derby. But we are due some luck, we rarely get peno awards ourselves so makes a change for a decision to go our way. I meant as in us fans getting bad luck that their team has conceded 4 90th minute goals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1967Ram Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 Not according to the one person that mattered - the Ref. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamworthram Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 29 minutes ago, JarodyDCFC said: Not sure it was deliberate as the ball came at Keogh at immense speed, but it clearly hits his arm and prevents an almost certain goal. It has to be a penalty otherwise anyone could unintentionally block a ball on the line with their hand. Definetly not a red card though. However I was looking on the Sheffield fans forum earlier and all of them are acting like the would've won if that penalty had gone in. Some fans are claiming that "it cost them three points" and that if a Sheffield defender did the same as Keogh then the ref would have given a penalty. Jesus. Why would a ref give two different decisions for the exact same foul? The Sheffield Wednesday fans are acting like sore losers because Derby thoroughly deserved the three points and they cannot take a simple moment of bad luck. It happens to everyone. Including Derby who have conceded 4 goals in the 90th minute this season. Agree entirely except for your final point. Conceding in the 90th minute isn't bad luck. Whilst tough to take, those goals were scored during the course of the game and could have been avoided. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomsdubs Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 We conceded late goals because we don't score the goals to change the games, if you don't score away the home side will always go for it in the last 10. Simple as that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JarodyDCFC Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 14 minutes ago, Tamworthram said: Agree entirely except for your final point. Conceding in the 90th minute isn't bad luck. Whilst tough to take, those goals were scored during the course of the game and could have been avoided. You're reading that final point entirely wrong. I didn't mean that the players had bad luck, just that us supportive fans have had bad luck seeing our team concede in the 90th minute 4 times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WystonRam Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 I found this on the bbc website What is 'deliberate' handball? The challenging decisions are if the defending player spreads their arms to make themselves bigger Former Premier League referee David Elleray "Hand to ball or ball to hand?" Nothing stirs the passion like a controversial handball decision. You've only got to look at players and managers jumping up and down enraged at a dodgy penalty to know that. A ball slams into a player's arm and one team is screaming for a penalty, while the others are claiming it was an accident. It's a tricky one for the referee to call in the heat of the moment. So what is 'deliberate' handball? In Fifa's Laws of the Game 2005, Law 12 says a free-kick or penalty will be awarded if a player "handles the ball deliberately (except for the goalkeeper within his own penalty area)". Page 67 of the document gives "additional information for referees, assistant referees and fourth officials". It adds: "Referees are reminded that deliberately handling the ball is normally punished only by a direct free-kick or penalty kick if the offence occurred inside the penalty area. "A caution or dismissal is not normally required." However, the document fails to describe what constitutes deliberate handball, which places the responsibility firmly on the referee and referees' assistants. Former Premier League referee David Elleray said the referee's interpretation depends on whether the hand or arm is in an "unnatural" position at the point of contact. Referees often consult their assistants on decisions "Referees look at two specifics - did the hand or arm go towards the ball or in a manner which would block the ball, or is the hand in a position where it would not normally be?" Elleray told BBC Sport. "The challenging decisions are if the defending player spreads their arms to make themselves bigger. "If the ball hits the arm then the referee must decide whether this action was to deliberately block the ball or whether the player has raised their arms to protect themselves - especially if the ball is hit at speed." The referee and referees' assistants, therefore, have a matter of seconds to weigh up these factors, and take the appropriate action. And there will always be at least one manager, 11 players and thousands of fans who will insist they have been hard done by. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WystonRam Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 Despite all of our discussion though , it was not hand ball a penalty was not given and keogh was not booked or sent off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dimmu Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 Not sure about penalty, the rules gives ref a lot of room to make his decisions. But I think we can all agree that it was stonewall mistake from Keogh. Again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angieram Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 10 minutes ago, Dimmu said: Not sure about penalty, the rules gives ref a lot of room to make his decisions. But I think we can all agree that it was stonewall mistake from Keogh. Again. Or a fantastic last ditch attempt to get in the way of a ball that was heading for the back of the net - shame on you, Keogh! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May Contain Nuts Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 17 minutes ago, Dimmu said: But I think we can all agree that it was stonewall mistake from Keogh. Again. Absolutely, people are missing a trick on this one. If it's not deliberate, then Keogh can't be given any credit for the block. It it was deliberate then he's a cheat and should be admonished. Rubbish from Keogh whichever way you look at it! (can't wait for people to misread this post as a genuine criticism) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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