Weimann and Bent

[Duracell]

Bent's not what we, or any other team chasing promotion, need. He only offers goals inside the box. To say he "only" offers goals inside the box may sound daft. But it isn't. It's like having a centre half who's only any good at last-ditch tackling.

The bloke's made a career poaching goals for relegation-threatened and mid-table chasing sides who probably don't enjoy much possession and rely on a striker who can reliably put away the few chances they create.  Other than that, players like Bent are little more than a luxury to teams like us when we need to hit the panic button. But no "Plan A" for a team that expects to dominate the majority of its games for a course of a season should have Darren Bent as a lone striker, and in my opinion, shouldn't include him at all.

I've not particularly warmed to Weimann yet. I like his attitude and energy but his pace is largely useless because he can't dribble. He's shown he's a good finisher, but really he's just another Bent with a lot more pace and stamina. But we've not seen him in his best position yet, so I'm not writing him off.

I agree with the general point of the OP if not the tone.

[Zag zig]

20 minutes ago, ram1964 said:

Weinmann has shown he his capable, although not set the division on fire as we had perhaps hoped or expected when he signed,but hardly a disaster and again not given a good run of games last season,so again think your comments are harsh.

Knowing a fair few Villa fans, all said he was a decent lad, just often got played out wide, which most thought was not his best position.

Funny but several said he had his best games played down the middle. Odd that eh, players having their best games in positions they like to play in. Unlike the original poster, I'm also a believer he might be capable, particularly if played down the middle. Until I see him in that role, I'm reserving judgement based on what Villa lads have said to me.

Incidentally they also thought dropping down to the championship would do him good, as he wasn't ready for the Prem. I'd like to see if Pearson can make something of him and coach better technique into him before calling him a waste of money.

[VulcanRam]

2 hours ago, eddie said:

Put the pitchfork down and back slowly away

Or alternatively stick it in your own head

[Tony Le Mesmer]

3 hours ago, Seth's left foot said:

What is Pearson thinking, having a look at players in training before making his mind up 

Bent is not the solution over the season but Weimann is potentially good enough if played correctly IMO.

Totally agree. Bent poaches the odd goal in the box (ala Chesterfield pre season) but when he doesn't you get nothing else. I think a side with DB in it is weakened. Weimann however is a quality player IMO who has not yet found anywhere near his best form yet but the quality is there.

[lrm14]

Weimann is brilliant when we're pressing really hard like we did against Hull in the 2nd leg. He brings so much energy, pace and desire that he can be really difficult to play against. Admittedly he does lack quality which is why he'll never be good striker and is probably why he's best left on the wing. He'll really struggle if Razza hits his stride because that's exactly how he used to play for Angers but he just had a bit more quality.

[Van der MoodHoover]

Bent was signed off the back of his contribution when he was on loan. And it was hard to argue that he didn't make a contribution in the 14-15 season.

Weimann I know less about. But he did bag us 3 pts last season by scoring against qpr so he isn't a complete dead loss. 

Bent obviously is not the future as his powers are clearly waning. If we're stuck with him on a long contract then that's presumably Chris evans' fault and we're just going to have to suck it up.....

[jagerbob]

Firstly whatever you think Weiman has never been given a good run in the side, when he came close to it around october last year he looked quality in my opinion... and was quicker than anyone else we had.

Which brings me onto.... both him and Bent in the right side will be very useful.

You say bent is useless, and in the way we have played the last 2 or 3 seasons then you arent far off being right.

But that is because he is a poacher and a goal scorer in teams who largely play defensively and attack on the break... not dis similar to vardy in that respect.

I knew the moment i saw bent in an england shirt 5 or 6 years ago, that he was only good for charlton, sunderland and other clubs who play 4-4-2 and play a more balanced styleof play.

Derby for last few seasons have no pace, but have attacking midfielders who arent bad in possesion at this level, so of course we play in the oppositions half, and try work an opening through the CF who holds it and brings others into it.

The way we play there is noi space for a bent to run into.

Bottom line is before you call bent useless, you know yourself he would get 15 goals plus in a side like burnley. ie a good solid 4-4-2 side where the CFs are there to score goals. Secondly Pearson is taking us in a different direction from the previous seasons way of playing... incase you hadnt noticed. Which in itself makes your argument redundant.

[Comrade 86]

6 hours ago, Ramdale said:

I was astonished after Pre Season to hear so many fans calling for Bent to be included in the starting 11 instead of Chris Martin. Such short memories. Chris Martin is proven at this level and makes us a better team when he is on the field. Darren Bent isnt good enough and hasnt been for 2 years, yet after 3 goals in pre season, all of a sudden people are happy with him starting?? Darren Bent offers nothing in a game of football except poaching in the box. We are a poor side when he is on the pitch as he is very poor in the run of play. 2 seasons ago when Martin got injured, our record was patheic. Its no surprise we were better at Preston when Martin returned as there was a focal point to play through and get others involved. I would personally sell Bent (if any takers) as his wages are astronomical and he he has lost that yard of pace he had when scoring goals in the Premier League.

 

This brings me to Weimann. I am sick of reading threads where people are banking on him making a big difference to the side when he returns. The lad wasnt anywhere near good enough the whole of last season and yet suddenly afetr a decent first half at Hull in the playoffs, all of a sudden he is good enough?? It is so evident to see all year that he lacks quality, end product and has one of the worst first touches I have ever seen in a Derby shirt. He is nowehere near as good as Ince or Russell and the fact we need to upgrade in these areas means Weimann should not even be in the conversation.

 

All in all 2 very poor signings by the club, however it is the short sightedness of Derby fans which beggars belief to me. We defnitely need to add quality to this squad to get promoted as has been clear to see with our struggle to break teams down.

Weimann, Bent, Johnson should be the first players out of the door as all are earning too much money and not good enough to take us where we want to go.

 

 

Durp....

[Ramdale]

Wasn't meaning to sound too aggressive with the tone, just tired of reading people talking about Weimann playing a major role when he returns. Took me back to pre season with the Bent situation. Both players nowhere near the standard required if we are to finally get out of this league.

Im all for giving players a chance, however Bent is awful and strikes me as someone happy to sit on his contract as he knows he won't get another one similar elsewhere. Weimann hasn't played too much, but doesn't take long to see why Villa got rid. Severe lack of quality and end product. Need a wide player with genuine quality. Someone like Sako from Palace would be ideal IMO. 

Hope Wilson is a breath of fresh air and genuinely think he could give us something we are missing.

 

 

[Ramarena]

2 hours ago, Ramdale said:

Wasn't meaning to sound too aggressive with the tone, just tired of reading people talking about Weimann playing a major role when he returns. Took me back to pre season with the Bent situation. Both players nowhere near the standard required if we are to finally get out of this league.

Im all for giving players a chance, however Bent is awful and strikes me as someone happy to sit on his contract as he knows he won't get another one similar elsewhere. Weimann hasn't played too much, but doesn't take long to see why Villa got rid. Severe lack of quality and end product. Need a wide player with genuine quality. Someone like Sako from Palace would be ideal IMO. 

Hope Wilson is a breath of fresh air and genuinely think he could give us something we are missing.

 

 

If you don't rate him that's fine, but your point on is contract is daft, what do you expect him to do? Declare himself as not good enough and tear it up? 

He's always ready when called upon and puts the effort in (do you think Pearson would play him if he wasn't putting the effort in?), he doesn't seem to moan about lack of game time, he seems to mix in o.k with the rest of the squad and he is often encouraging the younger players. 

It's not his fault we offered him the contract we did. You make it sound like he's some kind of bad attitude that we are desperate to get rid of but refuses to leave, which isn't the case.  

[kingsy1884]

4 hours ago, Ramdale said:

Wasn't meaning to sound too aggressive with the tone, just tired of reading people talking about Weimann playing a major role when he returns. Took me back to pre season with the Bent situation. Both players nowhere near the standard required if we are to finally get out of this league.

Im all for giving players a chance, however Bent is awful and strikes me as someone happy to sit on his contract as he knows he won't get another one similar elsewhere. Weimann hasn't played too much, but doesn't take long to see why Villa got rid. Severe lack of quality and end product. Need a wide player with genuine quality. Someone like Sako from Palace would be ideal IMO. 

Hope Wilson is a breath of fresh air and genuinely think he could give us something we are missing.

 

 

I think it is harsh to rule out any player before he had even played a competitive game this season. Especially under new management. I myself will reserve judgement on weimann for when he is back but he looked useful in pre season so i am sure he can contribute something. 

As for bent i agree he is probably past it but i think it extremely harsh to accuse him of a lack of desire. Whilst i accept it is your opinion, DB looked far more interested in playing for Derby this season than say Martin and he scored more goals in pre season than anyone else. Bent will play he part and win us 5 points or more on his own with his uncannly ability at poaching goals.

I for one think it is made to write off 2 players 3 games into a 46 game season

[sage]

10 hours ago, HantsRam said:

Bent was signed off the back of his contribution when he was on loan. And it was hard to argue that he didn't make a contribution in the 14-15 season.

Weimann I know less about. But he did bag us 3 pts last season by scoring against qpr so he isn't a complete dead loss. 

Bent obviously is not the future as his powers are clearly waning. If we're stuck with him on a long contract then that's presumably Chris evans' fault and we're just going to have to suck it up.....

Obviously not entirely his fault but he contributed to a team going from 1st to 7th. 

[DerbyRam!]

Weimann has not yet been given a chance in a striking partnership with Martin, I would love for this to happen and he needs to be given a chance here before anyone rights him off.

I think the two would work brilliantly, Weimann chases balls down and is quick, he has the pace bent used to have and can do very well in this position, like the goal he scored at Brighton through sheer will. I don't think it would be fair to disagree with me until he is given a few games playing as a two with Martin, then throw all the abuse at me if he doesn't do well :D, his chance at this came two years ago in pre-season when we played a foreign team at home, he played very well in that game and we played with two up front. (can't remember the team but it shouldn't be too hard to find.)

[Day]

14 minutes ago, DerbyRam! said:

Weimann has not yet been given a chance

13 starts in bits, nowhere near enough a proper chance.

100+ Prem games he's no donkey.

Whilst everyone jumped on the Blackman hype train I'm still the ticket collector for the Weimann train, all passengers welcome, wipe your feet as you come on board. New carpet for the new season.

[cannable]

3 minutes ago, David said:

13 starts in bits, nowhere near enough a proper chance.

100+ Prem games he's no donkey.

Whilst everyone jumped on the Blackman hype train I'm still the ticket collector for the Weimann train, all passengers welcome, wipe your feet as you come on board. New carpet for the new season.

Titus Bramble played 292 times in the Premier League and six times in the Champions League, means nothing.

[DerbyRam!]

Just now, David said:

13 starts in bits, nowhere near enough a proper chance.

100+ Prem games he's no donkey.

Whilst everyone jumped on the Blackman hype train I'm still the ticket collector for the Weimann train, all passengers welcome, wipe your feet as you come on board. New carpet for the new season.

Those games he also played on the left as we previously only played with Martin as the sole striker. I want to see him given a chance playing in a front two.

I'd ask for a ticket but I snuck on the train a long time ago!

[Day]

3 minutes ago, cannable said:

Titus Bramble played 292 times in the Premier League and six times in the Champions League, means nothing.

He wasn't a donkey, just had donkey tendencies 

[needles]

14 minutes ago, David said:

13 starts in bits, nowhere near enough a proper chance.

100+ Prem games he's no donkey.

Whilst everyone jumped on the Blackman hype train I'm still the ticket collector for the Weimann train, all passengers welcome, wipe your feet as you come on board. New carpet for the new season.

Big shame he got injured pre-season. Much sooner see Weimann than Blackman. Neither have done owt, but Weimann looks far more likely to me.

[Animal is a Ram]

29 minutes ago, David said:

He wasn't a donkey, just had donkey tendencies 

Just an ass?

[Day]

4 minutes ago, Animal is a Ram said:

Just an ass?

Never looked at his to be honest