Brammie Steve Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 3 minutes ago, Mostyn6 said: you make no sense, you asked me to name a defender who doesn't make mistakes, and that's the point, they ALL make mistakes, but Keogh makes COSTLY mistakes, and all his mistakes are costly. Leading to penalties and goals. If you're not capable of discussing it, or it's going over your head, then just carry on your deluded happy-clapping away from this thread. Ooh, tetchy Mostyn, that's not like you at all, mate! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaguarRam Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 19 minutes ago, Mostyn6 said: you make no sense, you asked me to name a defender who doesn't make mistakes, and that's the point, they ALL make mistakes, but Keogh makes COSTLY mistakes, and all his mistakes are costly. Leading to penalties and goals. If you're not capable of discussing it, or it's going over your head, then just carry on your deluded happy-clapping away from this thread. I agree. I am "happy clappy" and it is much better that way. I find the criticism and negativity shown to one player pointless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Day Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 Our costly mistakes are at the other end of the pitch. 6 clean sheets in 14 games. If you can take any positives so far this season it's the defence. Derby will lose more games, we will concede more goals, Keogh will be at fault for some of those but I bet you we will miss more opportunities in the final third that could easily have buried games compared to defensive mistakes. 7 goals in 14 games is pathetic, really is. It's this what has been so costly for us and why we're hovering above the relegation zone, 1pt yesterday would have took us 1 place higher in the league, a win, 4 places. Those goals they wheel out on the pitch pre match, leave them on all game, need all the help we can get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaguarRam Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 21 minutes ago, Mostyn6 said: you make no sense, you asked me to name a defender who doesn't make mistakes, and that's the point, they ALL make mistakes, but Keogh makes COSTLY mistakes, and all his mistakes are costly. Leading to penalties and goals. If you're not capable of discussing it, or it's going over your head, then just carry on your deluded happy-clapping away from this thread. 30 minutes ago, JaguarRam said: And that just shows how important he is and how pathetic and stupid your argument is. Oh and I apologise for that comment. It came across a little harsh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mostyn6 Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 24 minutes ago, steve brummie said: Ooh, tetchy Mostyn, that's not like you at all, mate! I don't accept that my argument has ever been stupid. I give this site and the posters the respect of backing up all of my opinions. People can call me wrong or disagree with me on the basis of my argument. Facts are that Keogh makes bad decisions and these decisions almost always cost Derby a goal. I love his attitude, and love his endeavour and effort, there's no doubt he cares, and there's no doubt that he feels the pain. Pictures of him in tears absolutely slay me, and I feel devastated for him, but the sad facts are that he's not composed enough to lead this team to success. I'm convinced of it and have been since his first decision to go to ground and let Jack Lester mug him off in a friendly. We haven't been successful, and since first highlighting his flaws, he's gone on to make numerous costly errors, and I'm talking before and since Leicester. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mostyn6 Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 13 minutes ago, David said: Our costly mistakes are at the other end of the pitch BUT, if our collapse in 2015 was because we signed and played Bent and Ince, then surely, if logic is consistent, then our inability to convert is because Keogh and Christie aren't suited to our way of playing... or something.... I dunno... @Bris Vegas will explain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfie20 Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 19 hours ago, mumblemumble said: The worst part about it was Keogh flapped his arms around like a child, blaming everyone else. And he's the captain! Talk about being a team player. Talk about being a supporter! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duracell Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 10 minutes ago, Mostyn6 said: BUT, if our collapse in 2015 was because we signed and played Bent and Ince, then surely, if logic is consistent, then our inability to convert is because Keogh and Christie aren't suited to our way of playing... or something.... I dunno... @Bris Vegas will explain. It's the same problem, actually. We can't retain possession like we used to, and naturally that puts the defense under more pressure. We've tended to defend better as a team when we've had Martin up front, wingers tracking back and passing accurately, and someone reliable playing CDM. Our defense can go from looking very assured to calamitous if those three ingredients are missing, such as our 2015 collapse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mostyn6 Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 36 minutes ago, Duracell said: It's the same problem, actually. We can't retain possession like we used to, and naturally that puts the defense under more pressure. We've tended to defend better as a team when we've had Martin up front, wingers tracking back and passing accurately, and someone reliable playing CDM. Our defense can go from looking very assured to calamitous if those three ingredients are missing, such as our 2015 collapse. but we could have all that, and DID have all that, then Grant, Christie and Keogh started making individual errors that made it all irrelevant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomsdubs Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 We have conceded 11 goals, joint second best in the whole league and the same amount as Newcastle. Only Brighton have better. Anyone that is saying Keogh is poor is bonkers as all the evidence suggests otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannable Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 59 minutes ago, Mostyn6 said: Shackell can play 30 yard passes easily. It's the hollywood 70 yard diagonals that let him down and taint his passing reputation. It's not about the accuracy of his passes though, it's the fact he slows play down so much. And it's not just Shackell, Whitbread had this problem as well and I've seen the odd momemnt of hesitancy from Pearce as well. Don't get me started on Albentosa, poor lad couldn't pass any further than five yards. The whole idea of playing from the back is that you suck some of their players in and the move it forward quickly giving you a chance to attack whilst you've dragged them out of shape. The reason Clough got rid of Shacks and brought in Keogh in the first place is because we wanted to pass it out from the back. Our defenders needed to be able play and with McClaren coming back will need to do so again. Keogh's like the John Stones of the Championship, you either hate him or you get him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mostyn6 Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 4 minutes ago, cannable said: It's not about the accuracy of his passes though, it's the fact he slows play down so much. And it's not just Shackell, Whitbread had this problem as well and I've seen the odd momemnt of hesitancy from Pearce as well. Don't get me started on Albentosa, poor lad couldn't pass any further than five yards. The whole idea of playing from the back is that you suck some of their players in and the move it forward quickly giving you a chance to attack whilst you've dragged them out of shape. The reason Clough got rid of Shacks and brought in Keogh in the first place is because we wanted to pass it out from the back. Our defenders needed to be able play and with McClaren coming back will need to do so again. Keogh's like the John Stones of the Championship, you either hate him or you get him. when have we ever benefitted from a quick movement out of defence started by Keogh? Never. You know why? He fires his passes at a player, or passes so weakly it barely gets there. It's all a myth. I believe it should be varied, there's nothing to say slowing it down, allowing our own players to get in advanced positions, is just as beneficial, if not more-so, than a CB whacking it out at speed. You cannot suck opponents in if you're not holding on to the ball to get them to come and challenge for the ball, but I'm sure you can find plenty of footage of this happening. Albentosa did it the right way, win the ball, give it to Hughes/Bryson/Mascarell/Hendrick or whoever. It's their job to orchestrate play. As for why Clough got rid of Shackell, it was nothing to do with passing. It was to do with commitment and attitude, oh, and money. Back to Keogh, I don't hate him at all, I just don't rate him (as being good enough for the next level up). He's a mid-table defender. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramsfan91 Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 Pearce is by far the best CB we have had in years. He will be the one that helps us get up the table. Solid and passionate. Proper old school player. All about the football. Underrated I reckon. we met his family and misses after a game at home and they are so genuine. His mrs Hollie is well pretty and so posh from London I think! he has a good support in them lot it's clear. pearce for captain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derbados Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 6 hours ago, Ninos said: I like Christie but he is woefully lacking in confidence. Thing is though it's every season now his confidence takes a knock and when it does he's utterly useless. If he wants to make it in the game he's got to start getting mentally stronger, as do the majority of our squad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddie Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 2 hours ago, JaguarRam said: I agree. I am "happy clappy" and it is much better that way. I find the criticism and negativity shown to one player pointless. I find it quite educating that people are now sure that all our ills are down to Keogh. Foolishly I thought that it was the people at the other end of the pitch whose contribution was lacking at the moment. Did Keogh make Vydra miss all those sitters in recent weeks? He must have, I suppose. It all makes sense now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sith Happens Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 8 minutes ago, eddie said: I find it quite educating that people are now sure that all our ills are down to Keogh. Foolishly I thought that it was the people at the other end of the pitch whose contribution was lacking at the moment. Did Keogh make Vydra miss all those sitters in recent weeks? He must have, I suppose. It all makes sense now. Its that famous keogh stare, sending subliminal messages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gypsy Ram Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 19 minutes ago, Paul71 said: Its that famous keogh stare, sending subliminal messages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlsonDerby Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 1 hour ago, Mostyn6 said: when have we ever benefitted from a quick movement out of defence started by Keogh? Never. You know why? He fires his passes at a player, or passes so weakly it barely gets there. It's all a myth. I believe it should be varied, there's nothing to say slowing it down, allowing our own players to get in advanced positions, is just as beneficial, if not more-so, than a CB whacking it out at speed. You cannot suck opponents in if you're not holding on to the ball to get them to come and challenge for the ball, but I'm sure you can find plenty of footage of this happening. Albentosa did it the right way, win the ball, give it to Hughes/Bryson/Mascarell/Hendrick or whoever. It's their job to orchestrate play. As for why Clough got rid of Shackell, it was nothing to do with passing. It was to do with commitment and attitude, oh, and money. Back to Keogh, I don't hate him at all, I just don't rate him (as being good enough for the next level up). He's a mid-table defender. good job were bottom of the league then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duracell Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 3 hours ago, Mostyn6 said: but we could have all that, and DID have all that, then Grant, Christie and Keogh started making individual errors that made it all irrelevant Correct me if I'm wrong but weren't those mistakes made when Martin was injured and when we had literally no CDM? Players are much more likely to make mistakes when they're under pressure and have to play a riskier game, which we undeniably did when we lost Martin, Eustace, Mascarell and Thorne in one go. I'm also sure you were at the meeting where people on here were told that Grant was playing injured during that spell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TroyDyer Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 Keogh playing out of the back is a myth. Reminds me of a scene in the film goal. The manager kicks the ball long over the lads head and states that the ball moves faster that you can run. The crowd may roar when he runs out from the back, but when he checks back and lays it off to pearce/johnson/hughes/Christie who happened to have taken a position behind him, it makes the whole "he can play it out from the back" arguement mute. Get some black boots and pass the ball ********. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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