SaintRam Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 Don't think I've ever seen a post that long not get a like from anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddie Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 22 minutes ago, curtains said: Might go even further down hill now. You're banking on it - you can flounce again for maximum dramatic effect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 1 minute ago, eddie said: You're banking on it - you can flounce again for maximum dramatic effect. No at the moment I'm pretty pissed off Thought you might like this though . http://www.eastwoodadvertiser.co.uk/sport/local-sport/opinion-derby-county-s-sacking-of-paul-clement-is-idiotic-1-7725103 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Teale Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 7 hours ago, Jourdan said: Can someone enlighten me as to what 'the Derby way' is? It's the height of pretentiousness in my eyes. We have ideas way above our station and are pretending to be something we are not even close to being. We are not Arsenal. We are not Manchester United. We are not Liverpool. We are a Championship club. We haven't had the stability or success to coin such a phrase. Are we a club to aspire to? Fawaz: 'Yes, let's do it the Derby way! Let's play exciting, attacking football.' Dougie: '...and get promoted and take the Premier League by storm?' Fawaz: 'Good heavens, no. Let's play exciting, attacking football, remain in the Championship and win 46 consecutive LG Performance of the Week awards. Much better.' I have watched Derby for over 20 years and for every manager that has played exciting, attacking football, there are at least twice as many who have not even come close. In my lifetime, only Jim Smith has had us playing a SUCCESSFUL brand of exciting, attacking football and even that only lasted for four seasons. So where does this Derby way come from? Yes, we played good football under McClaren for two seasons. But at the end of the day, it wasn't so groundbreaking that we should base our whole long-term future on what was ultimately a way of playing that resulted in us still playing Championship football in the seasons that followed. Does the Derby way actually work? It can't be all about performance and nothing to do with results. You have to marry the two. The philosophy can't be so rigid and you have to show flexibility and patience to achieve success, neither of which seem evident. Sacking Clement may well prove to be the right choice. But let's not dress it up as him being at odds with the Derby way. This is Mel's way. In his eyes, he never makes a mistake and never does anything regrettable. He's beyond reproach. At least the Americans were humble enough to look back and hold their hands up to their mistakes and to their credit, they tried to learn from them. To be honest, this whole sorry episode, by which I mean Clement's tenure, just makes me lose trust and faith in the people running the club currently. That's not to say that I had very much in the first place. I've never warmed to Sam Rush and Mel Morris just strikes me as a megalomaniac, plain and simple. Their words mean nothing, when their actions hold far greater significance. There was an inevitability about Clement's sacking. Sudden and swift as it was, the writing had been on the wall because we could all see that something was going to give sooner or later. He was only their man while he was winning. Why should we think the next man's fate will be any different? To be honest, any manager in the mould that we are looking for - Howe, Rodgers, Monk etc. - will only hear alarm bells with every Mel Morris soundbite and steer well clear. We might yet get promoted under the Morris regime. But I don't see us becoming a Swansea, Southampton, Leicester or a Stoke. The way Morris is running the club appears suffocating and stifling and not one conducive to sustained success. I wish Mr. Wassall good luck and I hope he has his oxygen mask ready. Southampton sacked Adkins when everyone thought they shouldn't, Leicester had an amazing run and sacked Pearson, Swansea have got through loads of managers have had Watford. Have you listened to the interview? He hasn't sacked Clement just because he wasn't playing the Derby way, they had a plan in place together and Clement didn't want to follow that plan. They went over it all again in November and then again a few days ago when the difference of opinion clearly couldn't be resolved. You have lost faith in a local owner ploughing his money into the club? Spending his millions on players, his millions on expanding the academy and training ground to make it the best around, spending his money so the best coaches go into the Derby school giving the kids the best training (and making sure they don't miss any local talent). His has owned the club about 8 months shouldn't you give him some time before judging if he is up to the job? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jourdan Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 1 hour ago, emjlc02 said: Southampton sacked Adkins when everyone thought they shouldn't, Leicester had an amazing run and sacked Pearson, Swansea have got through loads of managers have had Watford. Have you listened to the interview? He hasn't sacked Clement just because he wasn't playing the Derby way, they had a plan in place together and Clement didn't want to follow that plan. They went over it all again in November and then again a few days ago when the difference of opinion clearly couldn't be resolved. You have lost faith in a local owner ploughing his money into the club? Spending his millions on players, his millions on expanding the academy and training ground to make it the best around, spending his money so the best coaches go into the Derby school giving the kids the best training (and making sure they don't miss any local talent). His has owned the club about 8 months shouldn't you give him some time before judging if he is up to the job? You're right in saying that sackings are part and parcel of football and not every sacking leads to a club going backwards. Maybe you're right and much like the clubs you mentioned, this is a turning point for the club but in a positive direction. Like I've said, sacking Clement may be the right decision, we may still get promoted under the current regime and even weeks ago, I said Mel may well prove to be a wonderful owner. But is it unreasonable to have some doubts about his way of running the club? You say that I shouldn't judge Mel and his leadership after less than a year but it's OK for Mel to judge Clement definitively after a similar period of time? When things are going well, I am in my hammock with a glass of prosecco toasting everyone at the club and when they are not, I am critical of the club and the people in charge. I may appear fickle but after recent events, does Mel appear any less fickle? Gushing praise and talk of building a dynasty like Ferguson at Manchester United when things are going well and when they are not, suddenly Clement doesn't suit the club and was pulling in the wrong direction and it's his entirely his fault. What bothers me is the way we have conducted ourselves since the summer up to now which doesn't reflect well on anyone at the club and doesn't paint the picture of this stable, prudent, well-run, upwardly mobile club that we used to be thought of as. It would have been more reassuring if Mel just came out and admitted to making some mistakes and taking some responsibility, instead of blindly defending and justifying all of his actions. Clement was his man and his choice and he backed him. So how did it transpire that they weren't drinking from the same well and could this realisation have been made sooner? Just because Mel is a local owner who is investing money into the club, the academy and the training ground doesn't mean he should be immune from criticism. Like anyone else, I want us to be successful and in my defence, when I'm wrong, I will hold my hands up and admit that. It would have been nice of Mel to do the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duracell Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 12 minutes ago, Jourdan said: You say that I shouldn't judge Mel and his leadership after less than a year but it's OK for Mel to judge Clement definitively after a similar period of time? It's not enough time to judge whether Clement is a good manager, but after 8 months, I'm pretty certain that Mel Morris will have worked with him long enough to judge whether they have the same goals. And that is what all the noises from the club says this is about. Clement said straight off the bat that top 2 was the aim. Mel Morris never has. By Clement's measures of success, we're doing very well and more than in the hunt for going up this season. But reading between the lines, that is too short-term for Morris and he simply couldn't get Clement on board with a longer-term plan. Does Paul Clement really care where we are in 10 years time? Morris has not once called into question Clement's ability as a manager in public, and even yesterday praised his talents. Morris' goals are long-term and he should be judged over a long period of time, and it's too early to tell. Clement's goals were short-term, and on those standards, he was actually doing well. The way I see it, those the goals of owner and head coach were simply too different for the working relationship to continue. That doesn't necessarily make Morris a bad owner, nor Clement a bad manager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanjwitham Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 14 minutes ago, Duracell said: Clement said straight off the bat that top 2 was the aim. Mel Morris never has. By Clement's measures of success, we're doing very well and more than in the hunt for going up this season. But reading between the lines, that is too short-term for Morris and he simply couldn't get Clement on board with a longer-term plan. Does Paul Clement really care where we are in 10 years time? By and large I agree with what you've said, but I don't think Morris has any problem with Clement aiming for top 2 - no chairman should have a problem with an ambitious manager. At no point has Morris said he doesn't want to get promoted, the phrase used was "promotion isn't our primary aim". The implication being it's a secondary aim, but going up prepared, even if it takes longer, is more important. We know better than anyone what it's like getting promoted when you're nowhere near ready for it. We went up that season off the back of a tight defence and nicking 1-0 wins, and then struggled to defend against prem attacks while still struggling to score goals. You have to go up with a team capable (with the right additions) of scoring regularly at prem level, and under Clement we never looked like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ketteringram Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 At future interviews, He's going to have to explain why he'd been sacked from previous position. Presume he'll just reply 'I wanted promotion too soon' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Teale Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 8 minutes ago, ketteringram said: At future interviews, He's going to have to explain why he'd been sacked from previous position. Presume he'll just reply 'I wanted promotion too soon' I find it difficult after watching us the two months to see how promotion was ever possible this season, our side looked totally lost of ideas, disinterested and had no confidence. The Preston performance was one of the worst I had seen for years, we didn't even force their keeper to make a save. The last time we actually played well (in my opinion) was Bristol City (who were awfull that day) in the middle of Dec, yes we won the some games after but we weren't playing well and the downward spiral had begun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SecretDave Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 Just read an interesting article about Martin O'Neill not having a new contract signed yet for Republic of Ireland: http://irishpost.co.uk/comment-has-martin-oneills-fai-contract-issue-become-a-saga/ Who knows, maybe he's the one that we have in mind as the next boss, hence Darren Wassall being announced til the end of the season. That would tie in with the end of the Euros. I'm putting 2 and 2 together, but I'd love O'Neill as boss. Tons of experience, promotions, won trophies, Premier League experience etc. Add to that he already works with Keogh, Christie, Hendrick and Pearce for Ireland. Maybe he could get us to play the "Derby Way"... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodley Ram Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 I am going to go off topic here but It is related. If we want to be successful ( in my feeble mind) we need to make a very brave decision. We need to change the make up of the team and that means replacing Chris Martin bringing in a taller more athletic version ( which will have to come from abroad as other wise it will be too expensive) we need to have the right players to support that person(s) . I like Chris and his touch and vision are second to none but there lies the problem we have no speed or height at the front. To change will be a brave move but it needs more I be done Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadioactiveWaste Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 1 minute ago, Woodley Ram said: I am going to go off topic here but I is related. If we want to be successful ( in my feeble mind) we need to make a very brace decision. We need to change the make up of the team and that means replacing Chris Martin bringing in a taller more athletic version ( which will have to come from abroad as other wise it will be too expensive) we need to have the right players to support that person(s) . I like Chris and his touch and vision are second to none but there lies the problem we have no speed or height at the front. To change will be a brave move but it needs more I be done Blackman was that man...oh wait....d'oh But you're right, a one player based team can only go so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
top 6 finish Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 7 hours ago, Duracell said: It's not enough time to judge whether Clement is a good manager, but after 8 months, I'm pretty certain that Mel Morris will have worked with him long enough to judge whether they have the same goals. And that is what all the noises from the club says this is about. Clement said straight off the bat that top 2 was the aim. Mel Morris never has. By Clement's measures of success, we're doing very well and more than in the hunt for going up this season. But reading between the lines, that is too short-term for Morris and he simply couldn't get Clement on board with a longer-term plan. Does Paul Clement really care where we are in 10 years time? Morris has not once called into question Clement's ability as a manager in public, and even yesterday praised his talents. Morris' goals are long-term and he should be judged over a long period of time, and it's too early to tell. Clement's goals were short-term, and on those standards, he was actually doing well. The way I see it, those the goals of owner and head coach were simply too different for the working relationship to continue. That doesn't necessarily make Morris a bad owner, nor Clement a bad manager. Do you seriously believe that any manager is likely to look 10 years ahead? Especially after the way PC was treated.They won't look beyond 10 months,nor will anybody on here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duracell Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 14 minutes ago, top 6 finish said: Do you seriously believe that any manager is likely to look 10 years ahead? Especially after the way PC was treated.They won't look beyond 10 months,nor will anybody on here. It was just a number. There is more than a suggestion that Clement wasn't even looking beyond early May 2016. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 Personally I think Clement is lucky Mel sacked him now - it was all crashing down around him, relegation form if not position. Players patently not able to play well how he wanted and not happy with it. Odd decisions would only have got odder...he was able to leave relatively untarnished as in the future no-one will give his time here the sort of scrutiny we fans have. So he can move on with a reputation still relatively unscathed, hope he said thank you to Mel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 That man was Jack Parry http://www.fansnetwork.co.uk/football/derbycounty/news/41982/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 Geoff Barrowcliffe, Frank Upton , Ken Oxford Manager Harry Storer Whose. Johnny ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toddy Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 13 hours ago, top 6 finish said: Do you seriously believe that any manager is likely to look 10 years ahead? Especially after the way PC was treated.They won't look beyond 10 months,nor will anybody on here. Only as good as your last game is the saying................ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lokidoki Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 15 hours ago, Woodley Ram said: To change will be a brave move but it needs more I be done Perhaps if it had been done weeks ago Clement might still be here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwram1973 Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 13 hours ago, top 6 finish said: Do you seriously believe that any manager is likely to look 10 years ahead? Especially after the way PC was treated.They won't look beyond 10 months,nor will anybody on here. PC was treated exactly how he should of been imo. If in the end he had a total disregard for the plan and direction the owner (and fans) wanted to go in, not to mention having no interest in bringing in/using our quality youth players, then he got what most managers would have got in the end. When you see something is not going to work, no matter how hard you want it to, you have to make that choice. Lets not forget, although we are ok in the league and did go on a great run, we wasn't exactly pulling up any trees in this league were we?. Promotion wasn't the main target as MM said and keeps saying, he's wasn't spending all this money to get out of this league, he was under the impression that PC wanted these players to better the squad and improve on the style of football we were playing. He was doing what all good chairmen/ owners do, supports their manager. I'm not taking any notice of the moronic views some of the fools on here are spouting about MM interfering with tactics, buying players he wanted, undermining PC in the dressing room etc. Thats all they were, rumours. But some of you lot just don't want to listen to what MM has said and his reasoning behind the change. For me it was the right decision, was a total shock if i'm honest but justified. Van Gaal has spunked 250m and is playing boring football (NOT THE MAN UTD WAY!!!) They will replace him. Jose won the title with Chelsea last season, performances have dropped this, supposedly lost a few in the dressing room. They replaced him. Why should our club be any different to those 2, MM is massively ambitious but wants us playing top quality football and winning matches. That's the way to go up. Not like how we were playing, remember the season we went up with Davros?, boring football, snuck through the playoffs. Look how that turned out. I applaud MM for this hard decision he has made, he wants us to be a top club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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