Clement gone.

[Dimmu]

There's big chance that Clement falls to same category as Hyypiä. Enourmous amount of knowledge about the game, but personality is more suited to assistant than manager. Hyypiä is way too kind, Clement may be to lame.

DW's enthusiasm might be just what we need.

[Wolfie]

13 hours ago, top 6 finish said:

Do you seriously believe that any manager is likely to look 10 years ahead? Especially after

the way PC was treated.They won't look beyond 10 months,nor will anybody on here.

It doesn't matter.

A manager could stay for 6 months or 6 years. The important thing is that he'd have to set up the squad to play good, entertaining football. In return, he would get financial support with transfers and a degree of understanding if results didn't always reflect performances.

That actually sounds like a more secure manager/head coach position than most and shouldn't put anyone off - maybe quite the opposite.

PC must have said he could stick to the Derby Way at the beginning, or he wouldn't have got the job. Surely we can all agree that he never actually did, based on the dirge we witnessed on the pitch - even when results were good - and so he's sacked and we move on to the next manager who will.

It's not rocket surgery really.

[StaffsRam]

10 minutes ago, Wolfie said:

It's not rocket surgery really.

My favourite kind of surgery.

[duncanjwitham]

17 minutes ago, Dimmu said:

There's big chance that Clement falls to same category as Hyypiä. Enourmous amount of knowledge about the game, but personality is more suited to assistant than manager. Hyypiä is way too kind, Clement may be to lame.

DW's enthusiasm might be just what we need.

He always reminded me of Phil Brown - had loads of ideas that sounded great on paper, but had never been put into practice, and when it came down to it, he was unable to either get it working, or get the players to buy into it.  They were both much more pragmatic managers, following on from managers who liked free-flowing football (Brown coming after Burley).

[Guest]

1 minute ago, duncanjwitham said:

He always reminded me of Phil Brown - had loads of ideas that sounded great on paper, but had never been put into practice, and when it came down to it, he was unable to either get it working, or get the players to buy into it.  They were both much more pragmatic managers, following on from managers who liked free-flowing football (Brown coming after Burley).

I agree. A wealth of knowledge but seemed to be lacking when it came to putting that knowledge into practice. Didn't help that he looked and sounded and dressed like an undertaker. 

[Lokidoki]

2 hours ago, mwram1973 said:

I'm not taking any notice of the moronic views some of the fools on here are spouting about MM interfering with tactics, buying players he wanted, undermining PC in the dressing room etc. Thats all they were, rumours. But some of you lot just don't want to listen to what MM has said and his reasoning behind the change.

That's because what MM has said doesn't add up. Even SN (DET) thinks this and he's no moron. If MM wanted to get rid of PC then no issues but what most folks want is the genuine reason and "the Derby way" whatever that is, is pure BS.

My personal view is that there was a spat and the team that played at Fulham was a result of this.

Perhaps along the lines of  (PC) "OK I'll show you what your blessed favourite team can do then"... toys out pram. I see an element of corporate hubris in the entire affair and perhaps there was too much "friendly" interference form the top.

I think MM was frankly well pissed because of the toys being thrown out (and perhaps the ensuing argument) and all of the statements in the  media are to disguise the fact that there was a simple disagreement or clash of egos.

PC maybe went too far and bit the hand that fed him, sobeit. My concern is that new manager, be it DW or whoever, could be six months down the line with the feet under the table and then ground-hog day once more.

[mwram1973]

3 minutes ago, Lokidoki said:

That's because what MM has said doesn't add up. Even SN (DET) thinks this and he's no moron. If MM wanted to get rid of PC then no issues but what most folks want is the genuine reason and "the Derby way" whatever that is, is pure BS.

My personal view is that there was a spat and the team that played at Fulham was a result of this.

Perhaps along the lines of  (PC) "OK I'll show you what your blessed favourite team can do then"... toys out pram. I see an element of corporate hubris in the entire affair and perhaps there was too much "friendly" interference form the top.

I think MM was frankly well pissed because of the toys being thrown out (and perhaps the ensuing argument) and all of the statements in the  media are to disguise the fact that there was a simple disagreement or clash of egos.

PC maybe went too far and bit the hand that fed him, sobeit. My concern is that new manager, be it DW or whoever, could be six months down the line with the feet under the table and then ground-hog day once more.

Well you have just cemented my statements I think. 

You THINK those things happened, In your opinion, they MUST of had a spat and PC threw his toys out the pram and got the sack because of it.

When in reality, like a lot of others on here, you know JACK. You haven't a clue of what has happened and refuse point blank to believe anything MM says, for what ever reason. 

[Wolfie]

There are none so blind as those who will not see.

[Lokidoki]

50 minutes ago, mwram1973 said:

Well you have just cemented my statements I think.

I don't just think it and that is my point. http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/35524122
 

So does our local football journo. No smoke without fire....

My concern is not today but like I said on ground-hog day. Let's hope I am wrong.

[mwram1973]

41 minutes ago, Lokidoki said:

I don't just think it and that is my point. http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/35524122
 

So does our local football journo. No smoke without fire....

My concern is not today but like I said on ground-hog day. Let's hope I am wrong.

 

Quote

 

Derby Evening Telegraph's Derby County correspondent Steve Nicholsonis confused by the club's statement which followed Clement's exit.

"And it would appear quite a number of supporters are also puzzled," he added before analysing the club's reasoning in depth.

His take on the "Derby way" makes particularly interesting reading.

"I have never quite been sure what the term 'the Derby way' means," he said. "I am sure it does not encompass what we saw in the final three months of last season, or I hope it doesn't.

 

Quote

That's because what MM has said doesn't add up. Even SN (DET) thinks this and he's no moron.

So MM showed EVERYONE, Media, PC, and the fans, his plan to take derby forward when he was made owner.

NO SECRETS, his plan was there for all to see, question and discuss. "THE DERBY WAY" is just another name for the plan MM wants to put into place.

I knew that, MM knows that and I'm sure 90% of the fans know it.

It baffles me how some cannot grasp it, and SN is a reporter, he's paid to make good stories for the det. He even answered his own question in that quote!!!.

People are looking for things that aren't there and just ignoring what MM is saying.

THE DERBY WAY. Is about playing quality, attacking, entertaining football, improving all the time and utilising the quality of our youth system.

If these requirements are met, promotion will be inevitable, maybe not this season, nor the next, but one day it will happen and we'll be well equipped to cope in the prem.

 

 

[Duracell]

37 minutes ago, mwram1973 said:

THE DERBY WAY. Is about playing quality, attacking, entertaining football, improving all the time and utilising the quality of our youth system.

If these requirements are met, promotion will be inevitable, maybe not this season, nor the next, but one day it will happen and we'll be well equipped to cope in the prem.

 

 

I'm really struggling to grasp why people aren't getting this.

Doesn't mean everything is rosy at the minute, and some of us still wonder why MM ever thought it appropriate to enter the dressing room...but come on, let's not play stupid and pretend we don't know what Mel Morris expects.

The way I see it, Mel Morris wants a manager to make his stamp on the club. Paul Clement wanted another club to stamp on his CV.

[Wolfie]

37 minutes ago, mwram1973 said:

 

THE DERBY WAY. Is about playing quality, attacking, entertaining football, improving all the time and utilising the quality of our youth system.

If these requirements are met, promotion will be inevitable, maybe not this season, nor the next, but one day it will happen and we'll be well equipped to cope in the prem.

 

This needs to be a chant. Maybe then it will start to sink in with some.

Nice & catchy

Or maybe we all "say grace" before each match & recite the above. Amen to that.

[Monkeytennis12345]

5 hours ago, duncanjwitham said:

He always reminded me of Phil Brown - had loads of ideas that sounded great on paper, but had never been put into practice, and when it came down to it, he was unable to either get it working, or get the players to buy into it.  They were both much more pragmatic managers, following on from managers who liked free-flowing football (Brown coming after Burley).

Funny that, because it looks as if Clement has actually fallen into the same category as George Burley......(I'll get me coat.....................)  

[mwram1973]

26 minutes ago, Duracell said:

I'm really struggling to grasp why people aren't getting this.

Doesn't mean everything is rosy at the minute, and some of us still wonder why MM ever thought it appropriate to enter the dressing room...but come on, let's not play stupid and pretend we don't know what Mel Morris expects.

The way I see it, Mel Morris wants a manager to make his stamp on the club. Paul Clement wanted another club to stamp on his CV.

It's seriously baffling me tbh mate, I cannot understand why supposedly intelligent adults  will not listen and take in what MM has said when he first took over and is saying now.

Mel explained the reason for him going into the dressing room after the reading game, he went in to try and deflect the inevitable finger pointing and arguments. Fair enough I reckon. Was it the right thing to do?, I think so, his intentions were good and for the good of the team. He didn't go in shouting and belittling his team/manager.

I think the last part of your post is bang on!

[Lokidoki]

1 hour ago, mwram1973 said:

THE DERBY WAY. Is about playing quality, attacking, entertaining football, improving all the time and utilising the quality of our youth system.

So why didn't Mel say that this was what he wanted and not some aspirational PR speak Boll*cks. Why not cross out Derby and put Mel. So it's "the Mel way".  I cannot remember before this week ever having heard of "The Derby Way" but it's believable that in a business plan he set his stall out with a Chairman's plan. i.e. "The Mel Way"

And PC disagreed (at some juncture) with the Mel way. Question, did he? (PC remains silent and I would - given his payout, incidentally, that I/we contribute to.)  And they argued about it. And Mel being boss said "your fired".

Why are we in denial of this? Dare we not criticise MM? And please answer my question what happens when 6 months away some other manager doesn't play "the Mel way".

I'll say laughing stock again. And another season wasted.

[Lokidoki]

 

http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2016/feb/09/derby-county-paul-clement-gamble-sacked

The Derby chairman, Mel Morris, was interviewed on BBC Radio Derby in November, when he was asked if a failure for Derby to win promotion this season would “necessarily” result in manager Paul Clement being dismissed. “You had one word in there that I just want to delete,” Morris began, “you said we won’t ‘necessarily’ get rid of him if there’s poor performance; this season, we won’t be getting rid of Paul Clement. Period.” In the same conversation, Morris agreed with the suggestion that Clement could be “Derby’s Sir Alex Ferguson”. File that backing under “unequivocal”.

At the time Derby were in the middle of a very healthy run of form, losing only one game in 19, so perhaps you could understand Morris, a Derby fan as well as the man who runs the club, getting a bit carried away. Now, after seven games without a win, Clement has been dismissed, with Derby fifth in the table and only five points behind the leaders, Hull.

Paul Clement sacked as Derby’s head coach after winless run

Read more

In an episode of The West Wing one of the senior White House staff is revealed to have leaked military secrets to the press. When told the identity of the leaker, President Bartlet says: “Is it possible to be astonished and yet at the same time not surprised?” The news of Clement’s dismissal provoked a similar reaction, because while this seems like a panic based on the sort of bad run most teams in the second tier will suffer at some point, there had been signs that something like this might be in the post.

Following a routine home draw against Reading in January, Morris entered that most holy of sanctities, the dressing room, to give the expensively assembled Derby players a ticking-off for their poor performance. In the next game Derby were comprehensively outplayed and beaten 3-0 by Birmingham (managed by Gary Rowett, perhaps Clement’s logical replacement) and afterwards Clement preemptively denied that the team were in “crisis”. It was obvious, given the £25m and rising spent on the squad, the likes of Tom Ince, Bradley Johnson and Jacob Butterfield recruited, and the way Derby had missed out on promotion in previous years, that nerves were jangling at the iPro Stadium, however premature that might seem.

In the statement announcing Clement’s departure, Morris claimed that it wasn’t poor results that had been the deciding factor, but rather not enough progress had been made on “building on the Derby way and style of football enjoyed in the past two seasons; adding depth and strength to our playing squad; and, developing and improving player and team performance”. The “way” of Derby or any other club is one of those ephemeral concepts which nobody has ever really quite managed to nail, but in fairness to Morris this isn’t something that he has just discovered and is wheeling out as an excuse.

In that BBC interview he said: “I separate out measuring Paul based on the number of points we achieve, and what I look at is the performance and the improvement in the squad. If the squad is improving, the value of the squad rises, the cost to move on is less … It is about constant improvement. If we don’t achieve it this year then I think we have a much better feel on what we’d like to do next year. But I think the key point to me is all about this performance.”

Whether you believe that or not is one for debate, but while it’s rather doubtful that Morris would’ve worried too much about performance had Derby scrapped out a few ugly wins recently, his position seems to have been that a bad run of results were fine, as long as he could see that Clement could correct it. Of course the question now becomes whether seven games, or indeed the seven months since Clement’s first game, is really enough time to properly judge whether he was the man to bring that performance and improvement.

“We’ve got high hopes for Paul, so we’ll support him,” Morris told the BBC. “Therefore that ability to look beyond this season is critical to what he does.” With that long-term aim seemingly quite clear, what exactly has happened since that interview, other than this current poor run of form? It’s tricky to come to any conclusion other than this was a panic measure based on the cost of the squad and the looming spectre of the past two seasons, when Derby were the best team in the division before respectively being mugged in the play-off final by QPR and collapsing after February.

Clement was not perfect. The football he played was not always attractive and he seemed to have a slightly skittish approach to team selection, a little unsure of the best way to use this large group of players purchased for him. But even then, these faults could either serve as an argument for keeping Clement or for getting rid of him: his defenders might say he needed more time to work all that out, his critics could note that managers have to know much quicker these days, and that sort of time simply isn’t realistic anymore.

Particularly for a club in a hurry, as Derby are. Morris’s promise not to dismiss Clement was nice to hear at the time and his words spoke to a long-term plan, but it fell firmly into the who-are-you-trying-to-kid camp: a club in the Championship does not spend £25m on players and remain content with a solid 8th-place finish, ready to build for next season, no matter how much the pretty football is in keeping with the club’s “way”.

Still, what makes this especially curious is Clement’s replacement, the academy director Darren Wassall. Wassall is said to be a fine coach but has no experience of being a manager, and is now given the significant task of improving this squad and playing attractive football (if you believe the club) and/or winning promotion (if you believe logic).

The club maintain that Wassall will be in charge for the rest of the season, but one should have large pinches of salt at the ready for that promise. David Moyes was at their game against Fulham at the weekend, but if Rowett can be persuaded away from Birmingham, given the enormously impressive job he has done there, then Clement’s dismissal might eventually go down as a ruthless but pragmatic decision.

Rowett and Clement live on the same street, and there might be some awkward moments ahead at summer barbecues.

The question that keeps popping up, though, is what exactly did Derby and Morris expect when they appointed Clement? He was a novice manager, despite his strong coaching background with Chelsea, Paris St-Germain and Real Madrid, so he was going to make mistakes, and one would logically think he would therefore need more time to learn from those mistakes. His appointment was a gamble, but to bail out at this point makes Derby look as though they haven’t really seen whether that gamble has succeeded.

“There’s an interesting thing about Alex Ferguson,” said Morris in November, “is that I think he defined the culture and the philosophy of Manchester United because he had that long-term tenure. He became the way the club operated. In a similar way Paul has an opportunity here to shape how we run this club.” According to Morris, seven months was long enough to show whether or not he could do that. All the best to whoever comes in next.

 

 

[Wolfie]

4 minutes ago, Lokidoki said:

So why didn't Mel say that this was what he wanted and not some aspirational PR speak Boll*cks. Why not cross out Derby and put Mel. So it's "the Mel way".  I cannot remember before this week ever having heard of "The Derby Way" but it's believable that in a business plan he set his stall out with a Chairman's plan. i.e. "The Mel Way"

Mel has spoken about the derby way since the summer, with the same explanation he has given this week. Saying you haven't heard of it isn't proof that it didn't happen.

4 minutes ago, Lokidoki said:

And PC disagreed (at some juncture) with the Mel way. Question, did he? (PC remains silent and I would - given his payout, incidentally, that I/we contribute to.)  And they argued about it. And Mel being boss said "your fired".

PC must have signed up to the idea or he wouldn't have got the job. The fact that he never put it into practice was grounds for dismissal in Mel's eyes.

4 minutes ago, Lokidoki said:

Why are we in denial of this? Dare we not criticise MM? And please answer my question what happens when 6 months away some other manager doesn't play "the Mel way".

Easy. If they don't agree with it at the start, they won't get the job in the first place. If they do agree and then don't bother implementing it, then  they can go too.

 

[Lokidoki]

3 minutes ago, Wolfie said:

Mel has spoken about the derby way since the summer

when? In what article?

Secondly I think you've missed my point and it's pointed out fairly clearly in the article above, there was a disagreement and Mel sacked him at the first twitch of his sphincter. Six months down the line and hey presto. "we though that XX would play the Derby way"...

[Wolfie]

11 minutes ago, Lokidoki said:

 

http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2016/feb/09/derby-county-paul-clement-gamble-sacked

The Derby chairman, Mel Morris, was interviewed on BBC Radio Derby in November, when he was asked if a failure for Derby to win promotion this season would “necessarily” result in manager Paul Clement being dismissed. “You had one word in there that I just want to delete,” Morris began, “you said we won’t ‘necessarily’ get rid of him if there’s poor performance; this season, we won’t be getting rid of Paul Clement. Period.” In the same conversation, Morris agreed with the suggestion that Clement could be “Derby’s Sir Alex Ferguson”. File that backing under “unequivocal”.

At the time Derby were in the middle of a very healthy run of form, losing only one game in 19, so perhaps you could understand Morris, a Derby fan as well as the man who runs the club, getting a bit carried away. Now, after seven games without a win, Clement has been dismissed, with Derby fifth in the table and only five points behind the leaders, Hull.

Paul Clement sacked as Derby’s head coach after winless run

 

Read more

In an episode of The West Wing one of the senior White House staff is revealed to have leaked military secrets to the press. When told the identity of the leaker, President Bartlet says: “Is it possible to be astonished and yet at the same time not surprised?” The news of Clement’s dismissal provoked a similar reaction, because while this seems like a panic based on the sort of bad run most teams in the second tier will suffer at some point, there had been signs that something like this might be in the post.

Following a routine home draw against Reading in January, Morris entered that most holy of sanctities, the dressing room, to give the expensively assembled Derby players a ticking-off for their poor performance. In the next game Derby were comprehensively outplayed and beaten 3-0 by Birmingham (managed by Gary Rowett, perhaps Clement’s logical replacement) and afterwards Clement preemptively denied that the team were in “crisis”. It was obvious, given the £25m and rising spent on the squad, the likes of Tom Ince, Bradley Johnson and Jacob Butterfield recruited, and the way Derby had missed out on promotion in previous years, that nerves were jangling at the iPro Stadium, however premature that might seem.

In the statement announcing Clement’s departure, Morris claimed that it wasn’t poor results that had been the deciding factor, but rather not enough progress had been made on “building on the Derby way and style of football enjoyed in the past two seasons; adding depth and strength to our playing squad; and, developing and improving player and team performance”. The “way” of Derby or any other club is one of those ephemeral concepts which nobody has ever really quite managed to nail, but in fairness to Morris this isn’t something that he has just discovered and is wheeling out as an excuse.

In that BBC interview he said: “I separate out measuring Paul based on the number of points we achieve, and what I look at is the performance and the improvement in the squad. If the squad is improving, the value of the squad rises, the cost to move on is less … It is about constant improvement. If we don’t achieve it this year then I think we have a much better feel on what we’d like to do next year. But I think the key point to me is all about this performance.”

Whether you believe that or not is one for debate, but while it’s rather doubtful that Morris would’ve worried too much about performance had Derby scrapped out a few ugly wins recently, his position seems to have been that a bad run of results were fine, as long as he could see that Clement could correct it. Of course the question now becomes whether seven games, or indeed the seven months since Clement’s first game, is really enough time to properly judge whether he was the man to bring that performance and improvement.

“We’ve got high hopes for Paul, so we’ll support him,” Morris told the BBC. “Therefore that ability to look beyond this season is critical to what he does.” With that long-term aim seemingly quite clear, what exactly has happened since that interview, other than this current poor run of form? It’s tricky to come to any conclusion other than this was a panic measure based on the cost of the squad and the looming spectre of the past two seasons, when Derby were the best team in the division before respectively being mugged in the play-off final by QPR and collapsing after February.

Clement was not perfect. The football he played was not always attractive and he seemed to have a slightly skittish approach to team selection, a little unsure of the best way to use this large group of players purchased for him. But even then, these faults could either serve as an argument for keeping Clement or for getting rid of him: his defenders might say he needed more time to work all that out, his critics could note that managers have to know much quicker these days, and that sort of time simply isn’t realistic anymore.

Particularly for a club in a hurry, as Derby are. Morris’s promise not to dismiss Clement was nice to hear at the time and his words spoke to a long-term plan, but it fell firmly into the who-are-you-trying-to-kid camp: a club in the Championship does not spend £25m on players and remain content with a solid 8th-place finish, ready to build for next season, no matter how much the pretty football is in keeping with the club’s “way”.

Still, what makes this especially curious is Clement’s replacement, the academy director Darren Wassall. Wassall is said to be a fine coach but has no experience of being a manager, and is now given the significant task of improving this squad and playing attractive football (if you believe the club) and/or winning promotion (if you believe logic).

The club maintain that Wassall will be in charge for the rest of the season, but one should have large pinches of salt at the ready for that promise. David Moyes was at their game against Fulham at the weekend, but if Rowett can be persuaded away from Birmingham, given the enormously impressive job he has done there, then Clement’s dismissal might eventually go down as a ruthless but pragmatic decision.

Rowett and Clement live on the same street, and there might be some awkward moments ahead at summer barbecues.

The question that keeps popping up, though, is what exactly did Derby and Morris expect when they appointed Clement? He was a novice manager, despite his strong coaching background with Chelsea, Paris St-Germain and Real Madrid, so he was going to make mistakes, and one would logically think he would therefore need more time to learn from those mistakes. His appointment was a gamble, but to bail out at this point makes Derby look as though they haven’t really seen whether that gamble has succeeded.

“There’s an interesting thing about Alex Ferguson,” said Morris in November, “is that I think he defined the culture and the philosophy of Manchester United because he had that long-term tenure. He became the way the club operated. In a similar way Paul has an opportunity here to shape how we run this club.” According to Morris, seven months was long enough to show whether or not he could do that. All the best to whoever comes in next.

 

 

Sorry but what is that supposed to prove?. Just another article based on old news, assumptions and guesswork.

Ultimately, PC was unable or unwilling to have the team play in the way he had been told all along was required - even after being reminded about it, so we Mel let him go.

Why is this so hard to understand?.

[Wolfie]

2 minutes ago, Lokidoki said:

when? In what article?

Secondly I think you've missed my point and it's pointed out fairly clearly in the article above, there was a disagreement and Mel sacked him at the first twitch of his sphincter. Six months down the line and hey presto. "we though that XX would play the Derby way"...

I'm not going to read it to you but it was known at the time. Look for the thread from when Daveo and others from the forum went to meet him. It was spelled out then.

In Mel's interview after the sacking he said that PC had been reminded more than once about the long term plan and he didn't /couldn't comply (words to that effect anyway) - most recently a couple of weeks prior to the sacking. The relationship presumably broke down after that occasion.