Clement gone.

[StaffsRam]

From memory, wasn't 'The Derby Way' a big thing at that forum that they had with the fans at the iPro?

[eddie]

3 minutes ago, Wolfie said:

Sorry but what is that supposed to prove?. Just another article based on old news, assumptions and guesswork.

Ultimately, PC was unable or unwilling to have the team play in the way he had been told all along was required - even after being reminded about it, so we Mel let him go.

Why is this so hard to understand?.

I guess you need a slightly-above-simian level of intelligence to comprehend.

Let lokidoki and the rest of them continue to whine - I've still got some popcorn left and a couple of hours to kill. So angry, so hysterical, so pathetic.

[mwram1973]

10 minutes ago, Lokidoki said:

So why didn't Mel say that this was what he wanted and not some aspirational PR speak Boll*cks. Why not cross out Derby and put Mel. So it's "the Mel way".  I cannot remember before this week ever having heard of "The Derby Way" but it's believable that in a business plan he set his stall out with a Chairman's plan. i.e. "The Mel Way"

And PC disagreed (at some juncture) with the Mel way. Question, did he? (PC remains silent and I would - given his payout, incidentally, that I/we contribute to.)  And they argued about it. And Mel being boss said "your fired".

Why are we in denial of this? Dare we not criticise MM? And please answer my question what happens when 6 months away some other manager doesn't play "the Mel way".

I'll say laughing stock again. And another season wasted.

PLEASE TELL ME YOUR JOKING!

MEL did spell out what he wanted when he took over, he explained to the media, the fans and to PC. If you didn't hear it or bothered to hear what he had to say then thats your problem. He has reiterated this time and again, explaining what he believes is the way forward "the derby way" is just another name for the plan he set out, why the hell you cannot grasp this is beyond me and i'm not going to try and explain it any more, My 12yr old lad even gets it ffs.

"The Mel Way", now your just being petty and childish.

Quote

And PC disagreed (at some juncture) with the Mel way. Question, did he? (PC remains silent and I would - given his payout, incidentally, that I/we contribute to.)  And they argued about it. And Mel being boss said "your fired".

Would this be the "Mel Way" that was discussed in length and agreed on way before any contract or job was offered??

Stop trying to make out that this plan was just slapped on PC's lap a few months ago, PC knew exactly how Mel wanted to take us forward, Improving on the style of football we had seen in the last 2 seasons. PAUL CLEMENT HAD OBVIOUSLY AGREED WITH THIS PLAN OR HE WOULDN'T HAVE GOT THE JOB WOULD HE!!!.

Unfortunately once he got the job, he went in a completely different direction, playing slow negative football.

Mels the owner, he set out a plan. NO different from what everyones boss asks them to do every day when you all  go into work. So what would your boss do (if you have one) if you took the job then completely ignored his instructions??

I'll tell you, YOU'D BE SACKED!!

In my opinion MM is not immune to blame, but FFS lets wait till he actually does something detrimental to the club.

[Wolfie]

7 minutes ago, eddie said:

I guess you need a slightly-above-simian level of intelligence to comprehend.

Let lokidoki and the rest of them continue to whine - I've still got some popcorn left and a couple of hours to kill. So angry, so hysterical, so pathetic.

I'm mad at myself for continuing to bite but it's soooo hard not to.

Off to do something useful for a bit and let someone else have a go.

Edit: Enter stage left: @mwram1973

[Lokidoki]

2 minutes ago, Wolfie said:

Why is this so hard to understand?.

It is not hard to understand whatsoever. I think a number of us are coming at this from different angles. The issue is that no course correction was (seemingly) applied by Mel earlier - or was it by buying the players?  And that if someone fails at the first hurdle will Mel get rid again rather hastily?

[Mick Harford]

Anyone read the thread on here when Mel invited a load of people from the forum to Moor Farm?

I did last night, and what MM is reported as saying to the forum members is exactly what he has said over the past few days.

Quote

He wants it to be one club right from 7yr old to seniors. He wants the gateway into that first team to open. 

He spoke really about how McClaren worked in sort of a sphere of the first team. He wasnt looking long term. He was asked to get promotion so that was acceptable. But I think/hope it's fair to say that with more Mel Morris influence that he wants the wheels constantly rolling. No manager will come in and have everything geared towards his style. It'll always be the other way around. The manager will be brought in because he fits in with everything we have in place. 

I don't think he actually said "Derby way". He just called it "our philosophy and foundation". That's what everyone will abide to, sort of thing.

Quote

The club don't want to force promotion, with a manager like Sam[ Allardyche], playing unattractive football in a desperate bid to go up, Mel said that clearly he wants promotion but he wants it in the right way, be it this season, next or the season after.

Apologies for not naming who posted the above, I think one was Daveo, but I was using them to back up a theory on another forum last night.

I think I'm going to cross-post this in another of the doom and gloom threads, as I really think we should base our thoughts on what has actually been said or done rather than on supposition and rumour.

Also on the 4th of September MM said this:

Quote

I'm comfortable with the level of investment we need to make to get where we need to go. But I see this more as a case of sustainability: we need to think about how we bring new players into the club, and we have a new focus on our academy.

"It has to produce players that can progress into our first team over a period of time – that's its role. And I'd like to think that in five years' time, 50 per cent of our first team squad will comprise of former academy players.

Quote

"We want to get to the Premier League, but we want to get to a position where we can sustain ourselves in the Premier League, and that's a very different thing," Morris explains.

"We've seen a lot of clubs over the years – including Derby – go up, and then come straight back down. We don't want to do that. So it's about the structure of the club, the shape of the team. We need to get that right, so that when we get there, we won't need to make too many changes; that way, you've more chance of staying in the Premier League."

Quote

"You can never guarantee when you'll get in the Premier League. I believe we'll get there when we are ready," Morris adds. "It doesn't have to happen this year – After the play-off final two years ago, our then-manager Steve McClaren said if we'd been ready for the Premier League, we'd have got there. He was right.

"If it's not this season, then we'll redouble our efforts next year until we get there."

Again, none of this contradicts what he has said since PC has gone, I'm amazed that a few nationall journalists have not done any research on their articles.

Anyway, COYR

[Lokidoki]

3 minutes ago, mwram1973 said:

So what would your boss do (if you have one) if you took the job then completely ignored his instructions??

I would expect my boss to say that before we even got that far. For pete's sake did the board not talk to PC? Do you not understand what management should be about? And that goes for Chairmen too. It's about working together to achieve, and to get the best out of your team/people, not hiring and firing. If they felt PC was failing why did they sanction the purchase of two forwards? If he was failing did he get any support? We all saw that he was very stressed which can cause failure, - did MM provoke the stress?

More pointedly is will this happen again and what is being put in place to make sure it doesn't?  Forget the Mel way claptrap - just what is the senior management team doing to make sure that we don't have this occurring again? Especially with our new choice of manager.

[Shang]

15 minutes ago, Lokidoki said:

I would expect my boss to say that before we even got that far. For pete's sake did the board not talk to PC? Do you not understand what management should be about? And that goes for Chairmen too. It's about working together to achieve, and to get the best out of your team/people, not hiring and firing. If they felt PC was failing why did they sanction the purchase of two forwards? If he was failing did he get any support? We all saw that he was very stressed which can cause failure, - did MM provoke the stress?

More pointedly is will this happen again and what is being put in place to make sure it doesn't?  Forget the Mel way claptrap - just what is the senior management team doing to make sure that we don't have this occurring again? Especially with our new choice of manager.

Mel said he had a meeting with Paul Clement 5 or so weeks back to remind him of what he was hired for. After the meeting he felt that Clement was going to address the issues that were brought up. Clement says that he needs 2 new players, and Mel who has stated he believes in a "no excuses policy" brought them in for Clement. Paul didn't address the situation despite having a month and a half to show signs of progress.

If Mel is telling the truth he told Paul he wasn't happy with the style of play when we were on first place in the league.

Also Mel saying that he will take till the end of the season to make a decision on the right manager is already a good sign that we will do our due diligence on the next guy after being burnt once.

[mwram1973]

41 minutes ago, Wolfie said:

I'm mad at myself for continuing to bite but it's soooo hard not to.

Off to do something useful for a bit and let someone else have a go.

Edit: Enter stage left: @mwram1973

No Wolfie, I'm done me oad, it's the old saying isn't it

"Never argue with an idiot, as they will bring you down to their level then beat you on experience"

I'm with eddie now, off to get the popcorn.

[eddie]

Just to add my last bit.....

Some of you seem so angry about pretty well everything, but the sun will still come up tomorrow - if you are prepared to look for it. If you continue to look at everything through a red mist, it'll just look like a long and very early sunset.

[duncanjwitham]

1 hour ago, mwram1973 said:

Stop trying to make out that this plan was just slapped on PC's lap a few months ago, PC knew exactly how Mel wanted to take us forward, Improving on the style of football we had seen in the last 2 seasons. PAUL CLEMENT HAD OBVIOUSLY AGREED WITH THIS PLAN OR HE WOULDN'T HAVE GOT THE JOB WOULD HE!!!.

Unfortunately once he got the job, he went in a completely different direction, playing slow negative football.

My take on this, is that Clement probably sold Morris and co on the idea of going back to basics early on - grind out some results and clean sheets, instill a bit of defensive solidity and cut out the bad habits that had crept in towards the end of last season. Presumably once that had happened, the reigns were supposed to come off and the football would improve.  And that sounds like a reasonably sensible approach to me.  However it's 6 now months into the season and we're still trying to grind out results and the football is awful, so Clement gets sacked.

[Rev]

52 minutes ago, Shang said:

Mel said he had a meeting with Paul Clement 5 or so weeks back to remind him of what he was hired for. After the meeting he felt that Clement was going to address the issues that were brought up. Clement says that he needs 2 new players, and Mel who has stated he believes in a "no excuses policy" brought them in for Clement. Paul didn't address the situation despite having a month and a half to show signs of progress.

If Mel is telling the truth he told Paul he wasn't happy with the style of play when we were on first place in the league.

Also Mel saying that he will take till the end of the season to make a decision on the right manager is already a good sign that we will do our due diligence on the next guy after being burnt once.

He seemed happy enough pre Preston, when he sent out season ticket renewal letters including the following quote - 

''On the pitch, we've seen progress in both individual players and the team in Paul's first season as our Head Coach.

We've seen him develop and evolve in his role and I'm sure he will continue to be one of the outstanding coaching talents of his generation - and we've reaped the benefits of his work when you look at the teams performance.''

Do agree on the 'Derby way' though, he's been consistent about that from day 1.

 

[davenportram]

2 minutes ago, reveldevil said:

He seemed happy enough pre Preston, when he sent out season ticket renewal letters including the following quote - 

''On the pitch, we've seen progress in both individual players and the team in Paul's first season as our Head Coach.

We've seen him develop and evolve in his role and I'm sure he will continue to be one of the outstanding coaching talents of his generation - and we've reaped the benefits of his work when you look at the teams performance.''

Do agree on the 'Derby way' though, he's been consistent about that from day 1.

 

letters that would have been written and sent to printers and stuff weeks ago, if not before the new year.

[StaffsRam]

Given that they hadn't sacked him at that point, I'm not entirely sure what you'd expect them to put in the letters - "Sign up for another season ticket, we're not sure about this guy, but fingers crossed....."?

[Rev]

2 minutes ago, StaffsRam said:

Given that they hadn't sacked him at that point, I'm not entirely sure what you'd expect them to put in the letters - "Sign up for another season ticket, we're not sure about this guy, but fingers crossed....."?

 

19 minutes ago, davenportram said:

letters that would have been written and sent to printers and stuff weeks ago, if not before the new year.

Both valid points, although I'm pretty sure the turnaround on a routine mailshot like that wouldn't be 5 weeks.

Just using it as a recent example of how Mel's opinion has changed, for balance.

[StaffsRam]

1 minute ago, reveldevil said:

Both valid points, although I'm pretty sure the turnaround on a routine mailshot like that wouldn't be 5 weeks.

Just using it as a recent example of how Mel's opinion has changed, for balance.

Think, from the interview I heard, didn't Mel say that they were still behind him up until they met a few weeks ago, and it became clear that Paul wasn't on the same page. Still. Sounds like they gave him every opportunity but he either couldn't, or wouldn't, get onboard with the plan that was laid out for him in the Summer. If anything, I think Clement decided that he wanted up at the earliest opportunity and thought that Mel would fall into line as long as we were getting results and looking like going up. Of course it would be interesting to know whether we'd have taken the same action if we'd continued eeking out wins from poor performances, but as soon as the results started to go south and the football was still poor then I'm afraid the outcome was inevitable.

[ossieram]

I really can't believe some of the ***** posted on here! Some people are prepared to believe anything bad about the club or Mel or even some of the bad stuff posted about players behaviour without any evidence to prove they have happened.

But Mel says something that is positive and there is clear evidence from posts and articles from when he took over that he has said this from the start, and people will either not believe it or just argue for the sake of it. Instead of posting crap, why not do a bit of research or at least check your facts before making yourself look like a complete tool.

[Philmycock]

3 minutes ago, ossieram said:

I really can't believe some of the ***** posted on here! Some people are prepared to believe anything bad about the club or Mel or even some of the bad stuff posted about players behaviour without any evidence to prove they have happened.

But Mel says something that is positive and there is clear evidence from posts and articles from when he took over that he has said this from the start, and people will either not believe it or just argue for the sake of it. Instead of posting crap, why not do a bit of research or at least check your facts before making yourself look like a complete tool.

Got the painters in?

[ossieram]

1 minute ago, philmycock said:

Got the painters in?

Piles.

[Philmycock]

2 minutes ago, ossieram said:

Piles.

Ooooh, just push it back up and crack on.

Whats all these latest Clement rumours doing the rounds?? Or sausageter roobish?