Is clement up to the job

[Uptherams]

This team are capable of playing great football. The first 15mins of the second half Leeds didn't get a kick and were rattled. We have the players.  

Exactly. Leeds had 3 decent attempts and 2 went in. Martin scored but Hendrick, Russell and Weimann all had great chances. 

[curb]

If, as you surely must, class anything other than finishing in the top 6 a failure, then clement will be the catalyst for that failure, in my opinion. 

You'll not make a decent manager out of him in century's worth of seasons. We've become pedestrian, predictable and just plain average. The balance of the squad is hideous and its compounded by the manager not having a clue what his best system is. 

There, you've hit the nail on the head, just plain average.

While we were so quick to turn on the manager with the best win record in our history, during the first bad spell in over a year, did it not occur to anybody that most managers are average, some are very poor.

Did we really think that we'd follow him with another manager who was capable of a 53% win rate, when we've never had one in the previous 130 odd years?

[mozza]

Can a mod add a poll to this thread ? , might give us more insight ..

[Philmycock]

Are we too big a club for an inexperienced trainee manager?? Maybe we need an old head, and someone with a bit of passion and proven knowledge, though clearly MM, SR & CE wanted someone they can dictate to, rather than someone larger than them, smacks of Clough/Longson

[NottsRammy]

In my humble opinion it can all be summed up like this.

Nigel Clough ( And I'm a fan of his )

                Given along time to get it right, but with not a lot of money and timing of sacking was so cruel it stank !!.I think what most people ( clough supporters ) wanted to see is clough given some proper funds not asked to a job with hands tied behind his back. And that's what will forever go unforgiven by fans that wanted to see the dream ticket work and still do.

Steve McLaren

                  Instantly given some money after Clough goes not huge amounts but enough to make differences. Gets us going and builds on the bond were all in it together type of attitude. Gets some players to come to derby that prob would not have come if clough was still here because of his coaching style. All seems rosy.

Unfortunately Steve was in it for himself ( like most are ) and courted his own disaster by unravelling that together spirit the team thrived on by playing loan players and NEVER EVER turning Newcastle down properly, like he should have done. The team see Steve being two faced we get a few injuries and the rest is history he caused his own downfall end off.

Paul Clement

               Interesting this a lot of fans called NON LEAGUE NIGEL but at least he had managed a club for years before arriving with us. We now give a manager MILLIONS of pounds to spend who albeit has arrived from REAL MADRID but the fact is he has never mamanged. I find it very interesting this fact does not seem to count against clement much on this forum like it did Nigel.

Having said that I wish him well.

 

A few points that are key.....and I'm not saying I think this was wrong. But in hindsight we have signed the very players that played their part in that abysmal fail last season.Its no surprise its going to be difficult to change there mentality.

The signing of Shackell is a fabulous one.

I know I'm going to be roasted for this we NEED a quality midfielder and I mean quality a lot better than the over rated Will Hughes I personally think his injury is a blessing in disguise as we have to learn to cope without him. Yes Will is a good player but how many times does he SCORE, how many times does he put the FINAL telling ball through.He doesn't nearly all the time he chooses tippy tappy football and a SAFE sideways pass to one of our players.Thats great on the possession stats etc etc but he is missing what makes a good midfielder great.And I think he is vastly over rated. I prepare to put my tin hat on as I know this view will not be popular.

Derby NEED right now to sign a permanaent player not a loan player and they need to spend big if needed or clement needs to get of his backside and find that golden nugget in spain I cannot understand how no one yet has come from their.

We WILL go up if we get that midfield general in quickly if we don't its more of that same old drivel.

rant over lol.

 

 

 

 

[Ramfan1958]

Think Clement should have a old experienced championship manager to help him,Peacock is a youth coach and no more! 

[duncanjwitham]

 

Paul Clement

               Interesting this a lot of fans called NON LEAGUE NIGEL but at least he had managed a club for years before arriving with us.

PE Teacher Paul? 

[McMuffin]

PE Teacher Paul? 

or just PE Paul

 

or

 

PEP

[Ambitious]

I was one of those that wanted Clement in, however, I am beginning to second guess him.

Tactics - He doesn't seem to work on any particular system more than the others. six games in and I've seen perhaps just as many systems in place. We seem to have at least two per game. I saw the need for a plan B when plan A wasn't working, but incorporating systems down to who is available is a recipe for disaster. 

Substitutions - I don't know if he tries to be clever by disorientating the opposition, but I'd argue they do twice the damage disorientating us. Shotton has been brought on as a sub in four of the five games, I honestly, for the life of me, don't see why. 

Captaincy - I like Baird, he's had a few bad days in the office, but I'm not alone in thinking that he's good player. The fact is, I think Clement could take it off him now and he wouldn't be surprised. He strikes me as a inconsistent type, I imagine they do too. 

on players:

Ince - McClaren got a song out of him, Pearce couldn't. I'm thinking Clement can't either. Ince is a special player to have at this level and not being able to tap into that is almost criminal. 

Bent and Weimann - He's struggling to fit them in a system; Weimann isn't a winger and Bent can't play at the head of a three. I'd love to see the Martin and Bent partnership a bit more, and would be my first choice.

Hanson - he's been brought up as a centre-back, so naturally he's going to be defensive minded. I don't see how he fits in the current system as a more advanced player. He should be looking to replace Thorne rather than Hughes. 

Defensively - We're sound and rigid. Teams will always score goals, it's what they pay their players to do. However, Keogh and Shackell look as good as a partnership as you're going to find at this level. 

Thorne has had a good start to the season, perhaps our best, but apart from him our midfield is really lacking. Hanson still looks raw, which should be expected, and Hendrick hasn't started the season at all well. We really need Hendrick to step up now - massively. 

The attackers are getting next to no service. Martin is still our port of call to turn defence into attack, but we aren't using the players around him anywhere near the same amount. I think that needs to change, also. 

Overall - I don't predict a happy ending for either us and Clement. If I was a neutral looking in, having seen those five games, I would say a mid-table finish looks on the cards.

[Leon the ram 2009]

We WILL go up if we get that midfield general in quickly if we don't its more of that same old drivel.

 

Barton 

[ronnieronalde]

In my humble opinion it can all be summed up like this.

Nigel Clough ( And I'm a fan of his )

                Given along time to get it right, but with not a lot of money and timing of sacking was so cruel it stank !!.I think what most people ( clough supporters ) wanted to see is clough given some proper funds not asked to a job with hands tied behind his back. And that's what will forever go unforgiven by fans that wanted to see the dream ticket work and still do.

Steve McLaren

                  Instantly given some money after Clough goes not huge amounts but enough to make differences. Gets us going and builds on the bond were all in it together type of attitude. Gets some players to come to derby that prob would not have come if clough was still here because of his coaching style. All seems rosy.

Unfortunately Steve was in it for himself ( like most are ) and courted his own disaster by unravelling that together spirit the team thrived on by playing loan players and NEVER EVER turning Newcastle down properly, like he should have done. The team see Steve being two faced we get a few injuries and the rest is history he caused his own downfall end off.

Paul Clement

               Interesting this a lot of fans called NON LEAGUE NIGEL but at least he had managed a club for years before arriving with us. We now give a manager MILLIONS of pounds to spend who albeit has arrived from REAL MADRID but the fact is he has never mamanged. I find it very interesting this fact does not seem to count against clement much on this forum like it did Nigel.

Having said that I wish him well.

 

A few points that are key.....and I'm not saying I think this was wrong. But in hindsight we have signed the very players that played their part in that abysmal fail last season.Its no surprise its going to be difficult to change there mentality.

The signing of Shackell is a fabulous one.

I know I'm going to be roasted for this we NEED a quality midfielder and I mean quality a lot better than the over rated Will Hughes I personally think his injury is a blessing in disguise as we have to learn to cope without him. Yes Will is a good player but how many times does he SCORE, how many times does he put the FINAL telling ball through.He doesn't nearly all the time he chooses tippy tappy football and a SAFE sideways pass to one of our players.Thats great on the possession stats etc etc but he is missing what makes a good midfielder great.And I think he is vastly over rated. I prepare to put my tin hat on as I know this view will not be popular.

Derby NEED right now to sign a permanaent player not a loan player and they need to spend big if needed or clement needs to get of his backside and find that golden nugget in spain I cannot understand how no one yet has come from their.

We WILL go up if we get that midfield general in quickly if we don't its more of that same old drivel.

rant over lol.

 

 

 

 

Love that post NR, think you've nailed a lot of it.

Apart from the Will Hughes bit. I don't think he's over rated. I think he's going to go on to be magic. i think WE changed his game from penetrating to safe and  think that as much as anything else held us back last season.

I really had high hopes for him to start adding goals and to start playing the kind of balls he was playing when he first broke into the side.

I'll never forget how he absolutely controlled the midfield against Villa as a 17 year old in that pre-season friendly, or how he absolutely destroyed Peterborough for the 20 minutes on his debut, breath taking, or the Leeds game where you can watch 11 minutes of his highlights, pure class. He's got so much quality in his locker that it was frustrating at times last season to see him playing within himself.

I think we asked him to adapt last year and I think he suffered for it. Whichever manager gives him a free role will reap the rewards of his brilliance AND his intelligence.

[duncanjwitham]

We WILL go up if we get that midfield general in quickly if we don't its more of that same old drivel.

 

Barton 

But where are we going to play this midfield general? The biggest problem has been the gaps between the midfield and the forwards.  If we replace Hendrick or Hanson, we are going to be getting even less support up alongside the forwards.  If we replace Thorne, we've lost all creativity in midfield.  

[Philmycock]

We WILL go up if we get that midfield general in quickly if we don't its more of that same old drivel.

 

Barton 

Burnley?

[satty atwal]

We need a van der laan and an asanovic alongside thorne. Then we would smash this league to bits. Midfield urgent signings required.... the 3 that played yesterday do not work and will not work in an attacking sense.

[Leon the ram 2009]

Burnley?

no $hit, but was available for a long time, wouldn't want him as a replacement for Thorne, but for Hendrick or Hanson or to prevent having to put Baird in midfield......absofuckinglootly

[BondJovi]

So 5 league games in and we should tear up everything and start again?

What is the issue? Confidence. I only managed to watch the first 65 mins against Leeds. Very disappointed with the first half, we just didn't seem up to for it. But for what I saw of the second half was impressive, players wanted the ball, we forced our game on Leeds and had the chances to put the game beyond Leeds.

Does Clement have the respect of the players? Judging by the dramatic turn around following half time, I say yes. However we get it, we do need that first win. What we also require is a midfielder/s other than Thorne who can impose themselves on the game. And Clement has recognised this, judging by his interviews. I am not a fan of Hendrick, how often has he taken control of a game? He is a big guy and just seems so lightweight and only seems to remotely wake up when the ball is around the oppositions box. Quite telling that Clement preferred a possibly unfit Bryson in the first match to him.

The players need to believe in themselves and believe in each other. Clement has had a lot of bad luck so far but this international break is a perfect time for him to reflect on what has happened so far. I actually think the biggest thing people are overlooking is that the majority of this squad spent the back end of last season in relegation form, that confident winning mentality is gone. And fans booing at half time 5 games in is not really going to help.

 

[The Scarlet Pimpernel]

Thorne is a defensive dictator. Keep him in the team. We need someone else, a big personality maybe who will be box to box, able to carry the ball forward. Can Bryson do it? Not on last seasons form. The player should be Hendrick but I don't think he has it in him despite appearances. Two very good midfielders wanted urgently. Shame we only have just over 24hrs for permanents. 

[ronnieronalde]

We need a van der laan and an asanovic alongside thorne. Then we would smash this league to bits. Midfield urgent signings required.... the 3 that played yesterday do not work and will not work in an attacking sense.

Bryson coming back in will make a huge difference Satty.

Not only to the team but in particular to Chrissy Martin. I don't think enough people realised just what a brilliant understanding those two had with each other.

As long as Clement lets him play his attacking game and doesn't have him sitting Bryson will bring out the best in Chris's intelligence. I'm prepared to stake my life on it.

A midfield 3 of Bryson, Hendrick and Thorne, with Russell, Ince and Martin IS good enough.

Jeff's taking a lot of stick lately but as much as anything else it was him being pushed further forward that got us going for those 15 minutes yesterday.

[satty atwal]

Bryson coming back in will make a huge difference Satty.

Not only to the team but in particular to Chrissy Martin. I don't think enough people realised just what a brilliant understanding those two had with each other.

As long as Clement lets him play his attacking game and doesn't have him sitting Bryson will bring out the best in Chris's intelligence. I'm prepared to stake my life on it.

A midfield 3 of Bryson, Hendrick and Thorne, with Russell, Ince and Martin IS good enough.

Jeff's taking a lot of stick lately but as much as anything else it was him being pushed further forward that got us going for those 15 minutes yesterday.

Absolutely agree regarding bryson.... i think he will be pivotal for us this season and we will get back the bryson from season b4 last. As for hendrick i think we honestly dont need him.... dont see what he actually offers us and never have done. I think on the creativity side we really need to get someone that can unlock a defense..... a hughes replacement.

[The Scarlet Pimpernel]

Bryson coming back in will make a huge difference Satty.

Not only to the team but in particular to Chrissy Martin. I don't think enough people realised just what a brilliant understanding those two had with each other.

As long as Clement lets him play his attacking game and doesn't have him sitting Bryson will bring out the best in Chris's intelligence. I'm prepared to stake my life on it.

A midfield 3 of Bryson, Hendrick and Thorne, with Russell, Ince and Martin IS good enough.

Jeff's taking a lot of stick lately but as much as anything else it was him being pushed further forward that got us going for those 15 minutes yesterday.

So was Hendrick playing to orders first half or did he just go missing? That is the question for me. I suspect the latter which is why I think he will be replaced.