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Joey Barton

Sam_DCFC_1994

By Sam_DCFC_1994
in Transfer Forum

Joey Barton  

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cheron85

cheron85

Posted
Posted

Are all those extra hate crimes just done by you?

Wait... or are they all done TO you?

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ramit

ramit

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Most liberal country in Europe!!!!!!

Apologies mods for the link..im not savvy enough yet to post videos properly.

i miss Malmö, wait no i don't.  Lived there for a year in 1990, a nearness to København was it's biggest appeal.

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Rev

Rev

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Deleted posts?!! Im not particularly savvy on this computer malarky and especially this site. I find it a bit complicated.

If you scroll back you'll see several posts, including your original reference to your service, removed. 

 

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ilkleyram

ilkleyram

Posted
Posted

An intelligent response deserving of a decent reply. Side of the coin you see it as Ilkey ( is Harry Ramsdens still there?) is always going to fall down somewhere. Where do you draw the line mate?

Im not holding moral high ground as such..I agree that people should not be castigated or binned for one or even two mistakes... but that depends on the mistake or misdemeanor (see Ched Evans) and this Barton fellas list is not just one or two, or a quick slap... its really horrible stuff and runs into many occasions.

My counter to your argument is would you want someone working alongside you in your own place of work that is likely to blow up, headbutt you, stamp on your head, burn you if he goes off on one at any given time... Pesonally I wouldnt.

Further counter is that they are role models whether they like it or not... 

And my final word to the " we would take Jack the Ripper if it meant promotion"above posters view... I will be back to revisit this thread and your outrageous statement once Will Hughes, or Hendrick is lying in Derby Royal with his career in tatters over a training ground incident with Joseph Barton.

Hi Stockholm
Apologies for the gap in replying - walking the dogs and cutting hedges, which at least has given me a chance to think.
Off topic, there isn’t a Harry Ramsdens in Ilkley now, and I don’t think ever has been.  There was one in Guiseley - about 5 miles away - which was the first ever HR but which is now the Wetherby Whaler, a name picked more for the alliteration and fishy reference than geographical accuracy given that Wetherby is miles away and has never been a port.

But, back on topic. 
I have three mini Ilkleys, two girls and a boy, 24 year old triplets. As they have grown up I have talked to them about role models for the lessons they give, some of whom have been footballers - I like Beckham, for example, for the way he worked hard to maximise his limited talent, for how he deals with fame and celebrity, for how he has responded to the mistakes he has made (both at work and personal); I like Tony Benn, Dennis Skinner and Thatcher for standing up for personally held beliefs in the face of significant criticism; I think Thatcher is an excellent role model for my girls - she was a wife, mother and won an election to lead a male dominated political party in the face of great odds, and then won several general elections.  Her politics don’t matter in this argument, her example does. And I can think of bankers, other sportspeople, doctors, politicians, lawyers, journalists who I know and have met who provide good examples of being good role models.  
But, and I think this is the point I would want to make, I would never put forward a whole sector - all footballers, for example - and say to my kids: ‘they are role models’.  A role model to me, is someone you pick particularly, as an example.  And it can be of good as well as bad
Therefore I do not believe that ‘footballers per se’ are role models - there are some who are good role models (Shaun Barker, for example), others who are not. But not the whole tribe, just like any other profession.

And then there’s the issue of where do you draw the line when you have someone who has transgressed.  Your point on this is really strong and I have struggled with it.

So, on my walk this afternoon I found myself thinking about Jimmy Saville, because he represents in modern society in the UK everything that is abhorrent.  Let’s presume that he was alive, 30, found guilty in court and sentenced to 30 years and it was 2045 and he was about to be released from prison.  I asked myself the question: would I be happy if he were to return to society and to try to start working again, having served his time?
The only answer I could come up with (in those impossible and theoretical circumstances) is ‘yes’.  He had served his due, someone with more knowledge of him than I had decided that he was fit to return to society and he should therefore be free to pursue his profession.  Whether anyone wanted to ‘buy’ what he sold is an entirely different matter; whether anyone wanted to work with him or employ him would be a matter of personal choice.
So I then thought about Ched Evans, and Bob Malcolm, and Marlon King and Lee Hughes and Tony Adams and Luke McCormick and Joey Barton.  Interestingly, of that limited list only Ched Evans hasn’t (yet) been able to resume a playing career in football after his transgression and I wonder whether that says more about the power of modern social media than anything else?
But, if I accept the principle that once a punishment has issued and served there is no reason why someone - anyone - can’t return to their chosen profession, why can’t Joey Barton play football?

Whether he is good enough, the right fit in a dressing room, the right fit in the club and on the pitch are football decisions, not societal decisions.  Which is why I think that if Derby want to buy him and play him having considered all those options, that’s OK

Enjoy Lapland

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richinspain

richinspain

Posted
Posted

I said no. Not because of his past as a person, but as a footballer. Living out here I have to say that I have seen very little of him to know how good he is. I'm more worried about the physical side of it. I'm all for hard players, but it has to be channeled correctly. He would be no use to the team sat up in the stand for the last 30 minutes of a game, and 2 or 3 subsequent games because he has been sent off! Dave Mackay was the epitome of a hard player, but I'm sure he only ever got sent off a couple of times in his whole career. Off the field Barton could be an excellent role model for the young players. He could explain how things very easily can go wrong. But going in late and high on someone because you're throwing a wobbly isn't the example that I would like him to give!

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StockholmRam

StockholmRam

Posted
Posted

 

Hi Stockholm
Apologies for the gap in replying - walking the dogs and cutting hedges, which at least has given me a chance to think.
Off topic, there isn’t a Harry Ramsdens in Ilkley now, and I don’t think ever has been.  There was one in Guiseley - about 5 miles away - which was the first ever HR but which is now the Wetherby Whaler, a name picked more for the alliteration and fishy reference than geographical accuracy given that Wetherby is miles away and has never been a port.

But, back on topic. 
I have three mini Ilkleys, two girls and a boy, 24 year old triplets. As they have grown up I have talked to them about role models for the lessons they give, some of whom have been footballers - I like Beckham, for example, for the way he worked hard to maximise his limited talent, for how he deals with fame and celebrity, for how he has responded to the mistakes he has made (both at work and personal); I like Tony Benn, Dennis Skinner and Thatcher for standing up for personally held beliefs in the face of significant criticism; I think Thatcher is an excellent role model for my girls - she was a wife, mother and won an election to lead a male dominated political party in the face of great odds, and then won several general elections.  Her politics don’t matter in this argument, her example does. And I can think of bankers, other sportspeople, doctors, politicians, lawyers, journalists who I know and have met who provide good examples of being good role models.  
But, and I think this is the point I would want to make, I would never put forward a whole sector - all footballers, for example - and say to my kids: ‘they are role models’.  A role model to me, is someone you pick particularly, as an example.  And it can be of good as well as bad
Therefore I do not believe that ‘footballers per se’ are role models - there are some who are good role models (Shaun Barker, for example), others who are not. But not the whole tribe, just like any other profession.

And then there’s the issue of where do you draw the line when you have someone who has transgressed.  Your point on this is really strong and I have struggled with it.

So, on my walk this afternoon I found myself thinking about Jimmy Saville, because he represents in modern society in the UK everything that is abhorrent.  Let’s presume that he was alive, 30, found guilty in court and sentenced to 30 years and it was 2045 and he was about to be released from prison.  I asked myself the question: would I be happy if he were to return to society and to try to start working again, having served his time?
The only answer I could come up with (in those impossible and theoretical circumstances) is ‘yes’.  He had served his due, someone with more knowledge of him than I had decided that he was fit to return to society and he should therefore be free to pursue his profession.  Whether anyone wanted to ‘buy’ what he sold is an entirely different matter; whether anyone wanted to work with him or employ him would be a matter of personal choice.
So I then thought about Ched Evans, and Bob Malcolm, and Marlon King and Lee Hughes and Tony Adams and Luke McCormick and Joey Barton.  Interestingly, of that limited list only Ched Evans hasn’t (yet) been able to resume a playing career in football after his transgression and I wonder whether that says more about the power of modern social media than anything else?
But, if I accept the principle that once a punishment has issued and served there is no reason why someone - anyone - can’t return to their chosen profession, why can’t Joey Barton play football?

Whether he is good enough, the right fit in a dressing room, the right fit in the club and on the pitch are football decisions, not societal decisions.  Which is why I think that if Derby want to buy him and play him having considered all those options, that’s OK

Enjoy Lapland

Then you my friend are an extremely tolerant person. We cannot all be this way. I try to be as reasonable as possible. Im a boss with a staff of 20 to 40 people throughout the year. I give people chances. I have an ex con driving for me this year as an example and he is doing great.. but I do believe really bad eggs are just bad eggs and eventually if they are not in control or unable to control themselves the bad side just comes out time and again and Im fairly certain this is in Bartons makeup. 

The argument for social media being a determining factor can be issued both ways too. Its certainly a powerful voice and can be both good and bad. Its a reflection of modern society for sure.

Thanks for such a measured response. 

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Monkeytennis12345

Monkeytennis12345

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Then you my friend are an extremely tolerant person. We cannot all be this way. I try to be as reasonable as possible. Im a boss with a staff of 20 to 40 people throughout the year. I give people chances. I have an ex con driving for me this year as an example and he is doing great.. but I do believe really bad eggs are just bad eggs and eventually if they are not in control or unable to control themselves the bad side just comes out time and again and Im fairly certain this is in Bartons makeup. 

The argument for social media being a determining factor can be issued both ways too. Its certainly a powerful voice and can be both good and bad. Its a reflection of modern society for sure.

Thanks for such a measured response. 

You , sir , are a hypocrite . You state that , as a manager ( as I am also)  that you have given a chance to an EX-offender and yet you can't see for to offer the same to another EX-offender because 'you' believe that Barton is a bad egg ?! 

If you wish to argue reasonably , then at least make sure that you aren't going to contradict yourself within the same paragraph !

I rarely get wound up , but you are on a par with my 1st wife . Clown of the 1st order . 

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StockholmRam

StockholmRam

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You , sir , are a hypocrite . You state that , as a manager ( as I am also)  that you have given a chance to an EX-offender and yet you can't see for to offer the same to another EX-offender because 'you' believe that Barton is a bad egg ?! 

If you wish to argue reasonably , then at least make sure that you aren't going to contradict yourself within the same paragraph !

I rarely get wound up , but you are on a par with my 1st wife . Clown of the 1st order . 

I think you are too wound up Monkey to see or read me clearly....red mist maybe..dunno..dont know you, just hazzarding a guess.

I will try to explain as best I can. I will give ppl who have offended a chance, maybe even 2 chances...if they continue to offend again and again after Ive given them the chance then Im done and dusted with them. My fella working now has offended, done his time and is so far not reoffending and is doing ok... 

Joey Barton cannot be said the same off. His list is very long and horrible. Thats not a contradiction is it? Its using fairness reasonably. 

Now as for the insults you want to keep chucking at me... . Apologies for calling you a XXXX (tw@t) earlier..it was uncalled for. No one ( except Eddie) wants to read the ramblings of supposed grown men on a football forum.

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swanny

swanny

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listening to Clements post cup exit interview makes me this this might be a bit more likely. His frustration at a lot of went wrong seemed to stem from the team being rolled over in the first twenty minutes and unable to impose themselves. he also said we were naive to concede just after we scored. both areas you'd hope barton might be able to improve. 

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DerbyPride

DerbyPride

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I said right at the start of the summer that I could see him coming in (although that was when we didn't have anyone with captaincy qualities and when McClaren was still here who Barton has spoken admiringly about). As a person he went right up in my estimation with his reaction after the final whistle at Wembley. Of course it was easier with him being on the winning team but he showed a bit of class that day which I would never have associated with him before. He's no way a Hughes replacement but if we are going to play 4-2-3-1 then he'd fit in perfectly alongside Thorne. Last season we were too nice and I don't see that having changed this season. A bit of aggression and nastiness (within reason of course) are severely lacking in my opinion.

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