Anag Ram Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 We conceded too many goals last season. One of the key reasons was our inability to keep out good championship forwards when under sustained pressure. We need additional aerial presence. Even against Bristol last night, we still couldn't produce a header from the back which went more than about 15 yards, putting us under renewed pressure. We have the talent to create chances home and away and that's exciting. However, there's a very real danger we could throw that all away through an inability to defend our own goal. We haven't strengthened that area in the close season and I can't see Grant making much of a difference. I think it makes sense to add another tall, experienced player to the squad who talks and organises. He's a solid bugger too and won't let the opposition pass easily. An excellent man to marshal the midfield in tricky situations, including starts against the stronger teams away from home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mostyn6 Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 Eustace will give this team more than most people think. Which is what in your clearly more advanced knowledge? What are you basing this on Cisse? I will support and want Eustace to do well in a Derby shirt, as I do with every player. But, my theory that he will not improve us, is based upon results and performances when he was previously here. Your opinion that he will do the opposite, is based upon what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eranio20 Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 I'd rather have Oakley back if experience is that much a issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duracell Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 I'd rather have Oakley back if experience is that much a issue. You'd rather have Oakley than Eustace? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anag Ram Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 You'd rather have Oakley than Eustace? Only in sunglasses. Also, we have useless Eustace against Oakley cokey which only works if we find he has a drug problem. If you would like any serious comment on the Eustace issue, please see my earlier post 6.51pm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May Contain Nuts Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 I'd take the opinion of Watford fans who've watched him make 157 appearances for them, largely as their captain over the opinions of Derby fans who've seen 9 appearances from him in a random loan spell playing alongside an utterly disjointed team featuring Paul Connolly, Andy Todd, Gary Teale, Mile Sterjovski, Jay McEveley, Stephen Pearson, Jordan Stewart, Barry Bannan and Robbie Savage. Yes, I am being selective. He played with some good players too, but the point is that team was hardly set-up for someone to come in on a brief loan and make much of an impression. Oakley is 2 years more experienced (36 in August).... but was playing for Exeter in League Two last season (they finished a decentish 10th) after a loan spell in there in League One the previous season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mostyn6 Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 I'd take the opinion of Watford fans who've watched him make 157 appearances for them, largely as their captain over the opinions of Derby fans who've seen 9 appearances from him in a random loan spell playing alongside an utterly disjointed team featuring Paul Connolly, Andy Todd, Gary Teale, Mile Sterjovski, Jay McEveley, Stephen Pearson, Jordan Stewart, Barry Bannan and Robbie Savage. Yes, I am being selective. He played with some good players too, but the point is that team was hardly set-up for someone to come in on a brief loan and make much of an impression. Oakley is 2 years more experienced (36 in August).... but was playing for Exeter in League Two last season (they finished a decentish 10th) after a loan spell in there in League One the previous season. So what is the difference going to be between a 'brief loan' which is what he had when he was younger and fitter, and a few cameo appearances, which is what he's allegedly being signed for? His experience wasn't enough back then, so why should it be now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RodleyRam Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 So what is the difference going to be between a 'brief loan' which is what he had when he was younger and fitter, and a few cameo appearances, which is what he's allegedly being signed for? His experience wasn't enough back then, so why should it be now? The answer to these questions is in the post you have quoted, no? No one is saying he's going to take the league by storm but the value he can add in certain situations might well be useful. He could fit better into our now settled squad as a senior player and use the experience he's gained since he was last with to our advantage... Could be a shrewd addition, might not make much difference. Dont think there's much to lose on him so hardly worth getting your panties in a knot old boy...! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rynny Posted July 21, 2013 Share Posted July 21, 2013 So what is the difference going to be between a 'brief loan' which is what he had when he was younger and fitter, and a few cameo appearances, which is what he's allegedly being signed for? His experience wasn't enough back then, so why should it be now?TBF to Eustace last time he was here he was coming back from injury and hadn't played for 3 months. This time, imo, he will be fitter with pre season and know that doesn't have to play with Savage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mostyn6 Posted July 21, 2013 Share Posted July 21, 2013 okay, fair enough, it seems I'm going around in circles and unless directly quoted in this thread, I have said my piece and won't hop in with any more comments. I guess it's hard for people to see where I am coming from, but it stems from my desperation for wanting to see Nigel Clough evolve. John Eustace was here before, albeit on loan, but he was a professional footballer and someone who'd made a decent career as a good honest pro. Believe it or not, I was very defensive of Eustace at the time, when all the fans and forums were calling him useless, I was of the opinion that he was actually too dynamic for our style of play at that point and we'd have to change from the backfoot to the frontfoot. I am pinning a lot of hopes on Clough coming out of the other side of this coaching course with a fresh vision. I can see the benefit of signing a 28 or 30 year old Eustace, but not at this point in his career. I personally had hoped that Clough would finally 'click' and see the benefit of round pegs for round holes, which in itself would all but eradicate the need for 'experience in the last 20 minutes'. I also don't see where 'lack of experience' had actually cost us points anyway, that's just Clough's excuse making at full time when his negative influence has ruined a game for us. I know Eustace has decent intelligence and technical ability as a footballer, but he's the past. He's nowhere near the level of a Paul McGrath etc and in my opinion will prove to be another Warren Barton, Dean Holdsworth, Laurent Robert or Andy Todd... ie. Exactly what we (as Derby fans) have been trying to get away from. This thread smacks of hypocrisy for me however, as in another thread a few weeks back, I was suggesting that Derby are missing a trick as a result of perceived reluctance to recruit from abroad, and the consensus of what I (perhaps unfairly) label as "Clough apologists" opinion was that we should be giving our youngsters a chance, yet now when I say that I'd rather blood our youngsters and let them gain this magical experience, the same posters are wanting experience! I hope someone bookmarks this, I know Derby fans and have been surrounded by them for my whole life and I know that by the time Eustace (assuming he signs) has made 10 appearances, he will be the boo-boys target and judged as another poor signing not up to it. My own feelings are that we are going backwards, and should be focussing on strengthening our centre backs as Keogh and Buxton will lose us a lot more point in central defence than an experienced journeyman in midfield (or lack of) would affect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May Contain Nuts Posted July 21, 2013 Share Posted July 21, 2013 Not read your long post yet Mostyn, so this isn't a reply to that - Just as a point of order, his appearance record last season and age does concern me.. I do find the "his experience wasn't enough back then" line to be a bit odd, immeasurable. Enough for what, and what would have been enough? (I don't really need an answer to that) To be fair, the stats make it look like he was awful: We'd had a great run under Clough before he arrived (5 wins, 2 defeats and a draw) but only mustered 2 victories in the 9 games he appeared in after that... but we all know how much utter crap you can take from basic statistics., and how NC teams are prone to these sorts of runs. There are just so many variables between 'last time' and 'this time' to draw any conclusions. Right, now I've read your post although I don't really have a great deal to add to it. One thing I did take from statistics is that he'd played 32 times for Watford prior to his loan here... but managed a further 136 appearances (all comps) after the loan, which was the most consistent period of games for one club in his whole career, and actually accounts for over a third of his total career appearances (381), AFTER we had him on loan. Sorry, I just thought that was interesting! I noticed you said in your post that you 'can see the benefit of signing a 28 or 30 year old Eustace'. What we did was loan a 29 year old one, but perhaps those statistics coupled with Watford fan opinion show that his best years were between the ages of 30-33, and he'd be bringing quite a bit more experience to the role than before... ...or he could be a complete flop, totally past it and cost us more points than he wins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eranio20 Posted July 21, 2013 Share Posted July 21, 2013 Said in a previous post in this thread Eustace wouldn't be "that" bad a signing. But if people are coming out with "oh he's experienced" comments, then we might aswel get Oakley back for a year. He had a better period here than Eustace and played a key role in midfield, what's the difference between the two? Other than Oakley being a year or two older - surely more experienced though eh? Seen a comment saying Eustace will be fitter, he's played seven competitive games in a year.... Hope he signs because we've needed an experienced midfielder for yonks. But in a years time we will be in the same boat again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rynny Posted July 21, 2013 Share Posted July 21, 2013 Seen a comment saying Eustace will be fitter, he's played seven competitive games in a year....Guessing this is to me? I was referring to the fact last time he had been out for 3 months and would be lacking match and general fitness after that time out. Now he has had a pre season, played in a few games and, IMO, will be fitter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McMuffin Posted July 21, 2013 Share Posted July 21, 2013 Good point about Cloughs excuse for dropping points on the lack of experience moslyn. If Eustace signs at least he can't use that card anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamNut Posted July 21, 2013 Share Posted July 21, 2013 I'd still like to see bailey feature. he seems to be a total outcast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrivateDerby Posted July 21, 2013 Share Posted July 21, 2013 Good point about Cloughs excuse for dropping points on the lack of experience moslyn. If Eustace signs at least he can't use that card anymore. True, the starting 11 are what most would call experienced now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSheep Posted July 21, 2013 Share Posted July 21, 2013 Has he been offered a contract yet!?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posh Ram Posted July 21, 2013 Share Posted July 21, 2013 yeah, why cant the bugger just sign? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cisse Posted July 21, 2013 Share Posted July 21, 2013 What are you basing this on Cisse? I will support and want Eustace to do well in a Derby shirt, as I do with every player. But, my theory that he will not improve us, is based upon results and performances when he was previously here. Your opinion that he will do the opposite, is based upon what? I believe he comes from a place in his career where he knows what he wants and how to do it. I think he has qualities as a player that will compliment our young midfield this season. And of course I'm usually right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t'oldu Posted July 21, 2013 Share Posted July 21, 2013 Will he have his Hospital medical tonight and Moor Farm tomorrow with announcement at teatime? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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