eranio20 Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 Nt a bad signing. Can't help but think we are truly skint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ambitious Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 Centre back was surely a bigger priority than cover for covers sake in midfield. Starting another season with Buxton first choice doesn't fill me with confidence! Eustace covering him at centre back also doesn't! Just noticed of our five new signings, four already played for derby! Forsyth and Martin finished the season so that doesn't improve us. Grant I'm happy with, seems to have improved a lot since leaving. And eustace seems an odd signing to me!! Leaves a lot of pressure for improvement on johnny Russell! We look really light at centre back, Buxton would be fourth choice for me. O brien third and a new signing as a partner to Keogh. Barker is finished if we're honest about it isn't he Buxton was our best centre back for me last season, how has he managed to fall to 4th? I just don't get it - on last seasons viewing I would rather see Keogh replaced than Bucko, but both are decent enough. Barker is/was another level altogether, and I would perhaps argue so was Shackell! I would like to see another good centre back brought in, however, but for Keogh as much as Buxton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McMuffin Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 That's my only problem as well centre back is a problem. We will still concede goals even if we play 4 6 0. Priority should be a starting centre half over another midfielder in an overloaded position already Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddie Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 Buxton was our best centre back for me last season, how has he managed to fall to 4th? I just don't get it - on last seasons viewing I would rather see Keogh replaced than Bucko, but both are decent enough. Barker is/was another level altogether, and I would perhaps argue so was Shackell! I would like to see another good centre back brought in, however, but for Keogh as much as Buxton. Because Clough Edit: Filterpwn3d. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mostyn6 Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 Haven't we signed enough young players with a few years ahead of them? Who was the last player Clough signed permanently above the age of 30? We need some experience somewhere on that pitch. Too many times in away matches in particular, inexperience in seeing a game out cost us dearly. Our players can not strike a balance between seeing the game out and defending for dear life. Not every signing has to be inspiring, this may not be, but pairing up what we want from a second-choice CM and the descriptions Watford fans have given him, I think this is a good signing. What's wrong with signing players with a future? The last players Clough signed over 30, I think Grant? Shackell? Roberts? how old is Tyson? That said, when did 30 become a magic number? Experience? Hendrick played more than Eustace in the previous 2 seasons, I would argue that experience is 'subjective'. What makes a player have 'experience' and one not? Is Hendrick not experienced? If it's the type of player, ie. someone defensive minded, there are plenty of younger and fitter, and more talented options available than some unwanted, never-has-been in Eustace. This smacks of temporary measures and papering over the cracks, as I said earlier. This isn't fuelled by my lack of faith in Clough, if it was, I'd be happy. A few more signings like Eustace, and Clough would be gone by October! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ambitious Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 . I get it we conceded too many sloppy goals last season. How many games did Bucko play and how many did Keogh play last season. ? Clue Keogh was ever present without him we would have been in the do da . Keogh is our captain fantastic and is above criticism IMO Keogh isn't above criticism - he was good last season, but so was Buxton. I thought Buxton was better than Keogh last season, certainly made less mistakes anyway. Keogh is always good for a last minute challenge and throwing himself into harms way, but Buxton reads the game much better - you'll often see Buxton covering Keoghs mistakes, but, you'll also see Keogh covering buxton's short-comings when speed and agility come into question. I think both are good enough, and often I have said both have been quality this season - little mistakes, but everyone in this division makes them. I just want a 3rd man to come in, and put in what them two already give us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Tibbs Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 . I get it we conceded too many sloppy goals last season. How many games did Bucko play and how many did Keogh play last season. ? Clue Keogh was ever present without him we would have been in the do da . Or you could argue that if we'd of kept Shackell and not replaced him with Keogh we might have made the play offs? Thats another trip down Shackell lane though so I'll save that one for another day. I like Keogh, I like his passion and effort and he does have good control along with a decent pass. As a defender the jury's still out, he just needs to be better. He'll never cement his place in the Rep of Ireland squad until he is. Unfortunately that's why players like Sean St Ledger are above him in the pecking order. On Eustace, I'm pleased with the signing. He's never going to get people excited but has an important role to play this year. I don't think this signing can fail, if he turns out to be turd and doesn't get game time then we just release him next year, I imagine he's not on much wage wise either so nothing worth worrying about there. The one thing I hope he will add is abit of rear-guard protection for our defence. As good as Bryson/Hughes/Hendrick are they all were over-run at somepoint last season in every combination we played in. Fingers crossed Eustace can come on and provide that shield we needed at times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheron85 Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 Shackell? Only 29 at the moment... we signed him at 27 I think... how old is Tyson? Think he was 29 when we signed him. What makes a player have 'experience' and one not? Amount of time in the game... That's a simple answer... Arsene Wenger has more experience as a manager than Nigel Clough... Nigel Clough has more experience than Paul Ince... Simple... (Quality of experience is different, but exeperience is on longevity) This smacks of temporary measures and papering over the cracks, as I said earlier. Eustace is a player we've been after for 3 seasons now... 3 years ago he would have been first choice... now he's back-up... No-one's pretending he's a stellar signing... He's like O'Connor was last year... Had a role, was always intended as back-up... I don't think it counts as 'papering over cracks' if we're adding a player of a type we don't already have... Plus this gives Nigel a further year to work out whether he needs this type of player and to look out for a younger version rather than risking a gamble this summer on someone who might not quite be ready... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich3478 Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 Just don't think Buxton is anywhere near good enough for a side hoping to push on towards the top six and prem eventually. He's whole hearted and commited, fair play to him. Very basic footballer, no distribution to speak of, slow. Just limited for me. He's not dropped to fourth choice as such. Just that's the highest I'd want him in my pecking order. Barker ever being fit is unlikely, O'brein also is looking ever more injury prone. Also not that promising, a younger Buxton in my eyes. Can the club really afford to wait around for barker and O brien? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BondJovi Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 In the case of O'Connor I would have far rather we gave one of the youngsters a chance. O'Connor may have been vastly more experienced than any of them but he was a far inferior player. Eustace is a stop gap signing, I just hope he is not used as CB cover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramble On Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 I'm actually quite pleased by this signing, he could be the answer to a lot of last year's questions. He's by no means a world beater but he's steady and I think could do a job for us. And if he doesn't then it's only a years contract? If he looks good to Nige in pre season then I think we should definitely go for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich3478 Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 Comparing him to the o connor signing is an awful way of justifying it! O Connor was truly dreadful after a few ok games to begin with. Didn't play after Christmas and stuck on the wage bill for another year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 Keogh isn't above criticism - he was good last season, but so was Buxton. I thought Buxton was better than Keogh last season, certainly made less mistakes anyway. Keogh is always good for a last minute challenge and throwing himself into harms way, but Buxton reads the game much better - you'll often see Buxton covering Keoghs mistakes, but, you'll also see Keogh covering buxton's short-comings when speed and agility come into question. I think both are good enough, and often I have said both have been quality this season - little mistakes, but everyone in this division makes them. I just want a 3rd man to come in, and put in what them two already give us. Im not sure how you can say both have been quality, yet we conceded 62 goals, and had one of the worst away records in the league. Buxton for me doesnt read the game better, he isnt quick enough either in his head, or in his legs. In 26 starts, we only w-8, l-9, but goals conceded were 42, so therefore in the games he didnt start in, we only let in 28 goals, he also committed as many fouls during these games as Keogh did all season. Two things there, one stats dont mean that much, and two my stats mean even less, because they are done on the back of a fag packet, and probably completly wrong. IMO though going into the season as Buxton as our no 1 CB, will equate to another season finished in Jan, great squad player, but not good enough for a top 6 team over 40+ games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanjwitham Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 Im not sure how you can say both have been quality, yet we conceded 62 goals, and had one of the worst away records in the league. A lot of the goals we conceded last year weren't down to the centre backs (admittedly some were, but you'll never sign a mistake-free centre back at any level of football). We conceded far too many goals from crosses being allowed to be put into our box, we conceded far too many goals from midfielders being allowed to run at our back four (especially late on when we were under pressure), and we conceded a few too many from goal-keeping mistakes. Forsyth seemed to help out with the first when he came in last year, Eustace has been bought into help with the second and Grant has been bought into help with the third. Plus if Russell can take a few more of the chances we create, it will take a whole heap of pressure off the defence. People need to get out of this idea that strikers are only in the team to score goals and defenders are only in there to stop goals going in. It's a team game and if we aren't scoring enough it's not necessarily down to the strikers, and if we concede too many it's not just down to the centre halves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ambitious Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 Im not sure how you can say both have been quality, yet we conceded 62 goals, and had one of the worst away records in the league. Buxton for me doesnt read the game better, he isnt quick enough either in his head, or in his legs. In 26 starts, we only w-8, l-9, but goals conceded were 42, so therefore in the games he didnt start in, we only let in 28 goals, he also committed as many fouls during these games as Keogh did all season. Two things there, one stats dont mean that much, and two my stats mean even less, because they are done on the back of a fag packet, and probably completly wrong. IMO though going into the season as Buxton as our no 1 CB, will equate to another season finished in Jan, great squad player, but not good enough for a top 6 team over 40+ games. Both have been okay - in all honesty, both are far, far away to what it takes to make it in the premier league! Both are good for me, and one isn't any better than the other - both are what they are, in all honesty I think finding 2 new centre backs better wouldn't be that difficult. I actually think Buxton is better than Keogh for what that is worth - Keogh reminds me of a dog chasing a bouncing ball at times. Whereas I just seen Buxton as reliable but slow on the ground. But, as I said both are very similar in quality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B4ev6is Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 I am really pleased with this signing give us that bit of know how Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 A lot of the goals we conceded last year weren't down to the centre backs (admittedly some were, but you'll never sign a mistake-free centre back at any level of football). We conceded far too many goals from crosses being allowed to be put into our box, we conceded far too many goals from midfielders being allowed to run at our back four (especially late on when we were under pressure), and we conceded a few too many from goal-keeping mistakes. Forsyth seemed to help out with the first when he came in last year, Eustace has been bought into help with the second and Grant has been bought into help with the third. Plus if Russell can take a few more of the chances we create, it will take a whole heap of pressure off the defence. People need to get out of this idea that strikers are only in the team to score goals and defenders are only in there to stop goals going in. It's a team game and if we aren't scoring enough it's not necessarily down to the strikers, and if we concede too many it's not just down to the centre halves. Of course its a team game, but unless you are very naive, the CB's are there to keep this number down, that is there number 1 priority, why do you think we conceded more goals whilst Buxton was playing ? Do you not think when we give fouls away, it normally results in the ball being tossed into the box, maybe thats the ref's fault ? Having a quality CB can be the difference between winning a game, or drawing one, you can in this league get away with average full backs as we showed during our last promotion season, but its very rare the other way around. The way we set up last season was to attack more, and this will result in more goals conceded, and we have improved in all areas except in the centre at the back, Forsyth and Eustace wont stop every cross and run into the box, this is where we need that extra bit of quality and where we are lacking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mostyn6 Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 I'm actually quite pleased by this signing, he could be the answer to a lot of last year's questions. He's by no means a world beater but he's steady and I think could do a job for us. And if he doesn't then it's only a years contract? If he looks good to Nige in pre season then I think we should definitely go for it. What are last year's questions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaddesdenRam Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 What are last year's questions? Why are we rubbish away from home? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Srg Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 . Great post But the better players you have going forward the more of the ball you keep, so less pressure on the defence to simply defend for 90 minutes. No? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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