Ravabeerbelly

Completely disagree.
Only pundit on Talksport that I take any serious interest in.
Always got an interesting angle and is very good at getting his point across. Compared to Jim White,  Darren Bent,  Jamie O'Hara??
What about Andy Hinchcliffe? Or Micah Richards, Jermaine Jenas, Alan Shearer? Nothing at all of any interest to say on football to me or the wider issues. Just trot out stock phrases. 
Simon Jordan likes to be argumentative sure, but he's firmly tongue in cheek and he clearly has a proper opinion on things like contracts,  agents,  money in the game etc that is worth listening to, if taken with a pinch of salt at times. 

I listened in this morning and whilst I normal agree with 98% of what Simon Jordan says I didn’t necessarily agree this morning and felt Martin Keown had a far more balanced view of things. 
However I get where SJ was coming from. WR is employed by the club and in turn (was) MM and as with any job, employees aren’t always in a position to demand answers or expect a direct line into the boss and his decision making….it would be no different to a player not always being party to the coaching teams thoughts and decisions.
If MM was ill and unable or unwilling to communicate with the staff over any situation there is no reason why Stephen Pearce wouldn’t or shouldn’t be able to stay in touch. Lines of communications should always be open to an extent and in this case I agree that a) it’s disgraceful that WR or players found out about administration on TV or Twitter and b) the MM statement and it seems his meeting with players lacked any real enthusiasm and came across insincere and almost flippant. Which is not really an acceptable approach given the gravity of the situation. 
 
What I completely disagree with is what I have quoted above. What SJ did and what MM has done are not the same thing at all…..The only similarity being external circumstances did affect both…(Covid for MM and the banking crash SJ). Having read SJ book where he talks extensively and in detail about the sequence of events of Palaces administration amd it’s clear he fought with all he had for as long as he could to prevent it until it was ultimately taken out of his hands and forced upon him.
Until MM opens up on his own process we have no idea if that was the case for him or not…..

I listened in this morning and whilst I normal agree with 98% of what Simon Jordan says I didn’t necessarily agree this morning and felt Martin Keown had a far more balanced view of things. 
However I get where SJ was coming from. WR is employed by the club and in turn (was) MM and as with any job, employees aren’t always in a position to demand answers or expect a direct line into the boss and his decision making….it would be no different to a player not always being party to the coaching teams thoughts and decisions.
If MM was ill and unable or unwilling to communicate with the staff over any situation there is no reason why Stephen Pearce wouldn’t or shouldn’t be able to stay in touch. Lines of communications should always be open to an extent and in this case I agree that a) it’s disgraceful that WR or players found out about administration on TV or Twitter and b) the MM statement and it seems his meeting with players lacked any real enthusiasm and came across insincere and almost flippant. Which is not really an acceptable approach given the gravity of the situation. 
 
What I completely disagree with is what I have quoted above. What SJ did and what MM has done are not the same thing at all…..The only similarity being external circumstances did affect both…(Covid for MM and the banking crash SJ). Having read SJ book where he talks extensively and in detail about the sequence of events of Palaces administration amd it’s clear he fought with all he had for as long as he could to prevent it until it was ultimately taken out of his hands and forced upon him.
Until MM opens up on his own process we have no idea if that was the case for him or not…..

I’m sorry but this type of comment always rankles with me.
It’s based on the assumption that a) every footballer is super rich and b) that they have similar or comparable outgoings as you or I….
Based on the UK average the average wage is £30,000 (nett £1850 a month). The average mortgage repayment is £750 a month. Meaning the average persons mortgage is approx 40% of his wage….
What have you done with the extra money you’ve been paid since the start of your working life? Pay rises, bonuses etc?
I assume like me you didn’t manage to save much of it and made a choice to enjoy lifestyle improvements….new clothes, a nicer car, a bigger house, weddings, start a family? So it’s fair to say most ‘cut their cloth’ accordingly? 

That leaves a footballer earning £10,000 a week with a mortgage of somewhere between £15-£20,000 a month……
Oh I forgot…..you and I will have most likely taken out their mortgage in our mid twenties and expected to pay it off sometime between 50 and 60 ready for a nice retirement, maybe over a period of 25 years? That gives your average footballer a 10 year window of earning opportunity before he’s cast adrift at 34/35 and someone makes a decision to retire him!!! I don’t know the math involved in that but assuming the repayments on a mortgage of that size paid over 10 years is considerably more than when paid over 25 years?
In short, not many footballers are paying off a mortgage of £750 a month whilst driving a 5 year old VW Passat. Their outgoings will be very much in line with their earnings and their retirement age!
Im not saying there should be an outpouring of sympathy compared with staff that will inevitably lose their jobs but let’s be realistic at least.

Because he was being employed by MM does that mean he should be barred from criticising him ? Employment is a two way straight and on that MM hasn't exactly done his part with his completely inadaquate amouunt of communication to the staff. Thing is what did Rooney say that was so wrong yesterday, he was critical of Mel's behaviour in recent times and critical in particular of his communication to his staff after being asked directly about it in an interview whilst also commending MM for the money he'd put in and that it was time to move past him. Everything he said was within the realms of reasonable professional criticism.
It should be also said that on the other hand that MM (in the brief appearances he's made) has made comments that are thinly veiled criticism towards Rooney.
Is this accurate, especially the last line? He said something to the effect of "We need to move past him" not that he was glad he was gone right ? In my opinion it was very different tonally than what you are trying to represent here. The comments about insincerety and dishonesty were about MM's speech to the staff and his interview in particular not necessarily about the guy in general (although I'll concede that isn't much of a stretch).
Honestly I can't help but feel Rooney's comments were perfectly in the realms of reasonable about an individual, robust maybe but from everything that's going off at the club it's not exactly uncalled for. I can think of plenty other managers that would have absolutely torn into MM here. 

I dont disagree but my point was it annoys me when people make the sweeping statement along the lines of “bless them they’ll be down to their last millions” 
Its not like that for many, if any and most will have the same struggles as the rest of us having cut their cloth to suit their income. 
You or I or anyone else has little or no knowledge of any of the players personal finances and associated commitments. So I just feel it’s crass to make comments along those lines 

I’m sorry but this type of comment always rankles with me.
It’s based on the assumption that a) every footballer is super rich and b) that they have similar or comparable outgoings as you or I….
Based on the UK average the average wage is £30,000 (nett £1850 a month). The average mortgage repayment is £750 a month. Meaning the average persons mortgage is approx 40% of his wage….
What have you done with the extra money you’ve been paid since the start of your working life? Pay rises, bonuses etc?
I assume like me you didn’t manage to save much of it and made a choice to enjoy lifestyle improvements….new clothes, a nicer car, a bigger house, weddings, start a family? So it’s fair to say most ‘cut their cloth’ accordingly? 

That leaves a footballer earning £10,000 a week with a mortgage of somewhere between £15-£20,000 a month……
Oh I forgot…..you and I will have most likely taken out their mortgage in our mid twenties and expected to pay it off sometime between 50 and 60 ready for a nice retirement, maybe over a period of 25 years? That gives your average footballer a 10 year window of earning opportunity before he’s cast adrift at 34/35 and someone makes a decision to retire him!!! I don’t know the math involved in that but assuming the repayments on a mortgage of that size paid over 10 years is considerably more than when paid over 25 years?
In short, not many footballers are paying off a mortgage of £750 a month whilst driving a 5 year old VW Passat. Their outgoings will be very much in line with their earnings and their retirement age!
Im not saying there should be an outpouring of sympathy compared with staff that will inevitably lose their jobs but let’s be realistic at least.

I’m sorry but this type of comment always rankles with me.
It’s based on the assumption that a) every footballer is super rich and b) that they have similar or comparable outgoings as you or I….
Based on the UK average the average wage is £30,000 (nett £1850 a month). The average mortgage repayment is £750 a month. Meaning the average persons mortgage is approx 40% of his wage….
What have you done with the extra money you’ve been paid since the start of your working life? Pay rises, bonuses etc?
I assume like me you didn’t manage to save much of it and made a choice to enjoy lifestyle improvements….new clothes, a nicer car, a bigger house, weddings, start a family? So it’s fair to say most ‘cut their cloth’ accordingly? 

That leaves a footballer earning £10,000 a week with a mortgage of somewhere between £15-£20,000 a month……
Oh I forgot…..you and I will have most likely taken out their mortgage in our mid twenties and expected to pay it off sometime between 50 and 60 ready for a nice retirement, maybe over a period of 25 years? That gives your average footballer a 10 year window of earning opportunity before he’s cast adrift at 34/35 and someone makes a decision to retire him!!! I don’t know the math involved in that but assuming the repayments on a mortgage of that size paid over 10 years is considerably more than when paid over 25 years?
In short, not many footballers are paying off a mortgage of £750 a month whilst driving a 5 year old VW Passat. Their outgoings will be very much in line with their earnings and their retirement age!
Im not saying there should be an outpouring of sympathy compared with staff that will inevitably lose their jobs but let’s be realistic at least.

I’m sorry but this type of comment always rankles with me.
It’s based on the assumption that a) every footballer is super rich and b) that they have similar or comparable outgoings as you or I….
Based on the UK average the average wage is £30,000 (nett £1850 a month). The average mortgage repayment is £750 a month. Meaning the average persons mortgage is approx 40% of his wage….
What have you done with the extra money you’ve been paid since the start of your working life? Pay rises, bonuses etc?
I assume like me you didn’t manage to save much of it and made a choice to enjoy lifestyle improvements….new clothes, a nicer car, a bigger house, weddings, start a family? So it’s fair to say most ‘cut their cloth’ accordingly? 

That leaves a footballer earning £10,000 a week with a mortgage of somewhere between £15-£20,000 a month……
Oh I forgot…..you and I will have most likely taken out their mortgage in our mid twenties and expected to pay it off sometime between 50 and 60 ready for a nice retirement, maybe over a period of 25 years? That gives your average footballer a 10 year window of earning opportunity before he’s cast adrift at 34/35 and someone makes a decision to retire him!!! I don’t know the math involved in that but assuming the repayments on a mortgage of that size paid over 10 years is considerably more than when paid over 25 years?
In short, not many footballers are paying off a mortgage of £750 a month whilst driving a 5 year old VW Passat. Their outgoings will be very much in line with their earnings and their retirement age!
Im not saying there should be an outpouring of sympathy compared with staff that will inevitably lose their jobs but let’s be realistic at least.

I’m sorry but this type of comment always rankles with me.
It’s based on the assumption that a) every footballer is super rich and b) that they have similar or comparable outgoings as you or I….
Based on the UK average the average wage is £30,000 (nett £1850 a month). The average mortgage repayment is £750 a month. Meaning the average persons mortgage is approx 40% of his wage….
What have you done with the extra money you’ve been paid since the start of your working life? Pay rises, bonuses etc?
I assume like me you didn’t manage to save much of it and made a choice to enjoy lifestyle improvements….new clothes, a nicer car, a bigger house, weddings, start a family? So it’s fair to say most ‘cut their cloth’ accordingly? 

That leaves a footballer earning £10,000 a week with a mortgage of somewhere between £15-£20,000 a month……
Oh I forgot…..you and I will have most likely taken out their mortgage in our mid twenties and expected to pay it off sometime between 50 and 60 ready for a nice retirement, maybe over a period of 25 years? That gives your average footballer a 10 year window of earning opportunity before he’s cast adrift at 34/35 and someone makes a decision to retire him!!! I don’t know the math involved in that but assuming the repayments on a mortgage of that size paid over 10 years is considerably more than when paid over 25 years?
In short, not many footballers are paying off a mortgage of £750 a month whilst driving a 5 year old VW Passat. Their outgoings will be very much in line with their earnings and their retirement age!
Im not saying there should be an outpouring of sympathy compared with staff that will inevitably lose their jobs but let’s be realistic at least.

Obviously searching the internet for lists of player wages can be way off radar, but a quick look around at what looks reasonable would suggest the wage bill for players is somewhere between £250-300k a week…. That’s a healthy £1 - 1.3 million a month…I can see why any accountant may ask if he can pay that later…..

There wisdom here is often "they can afford to, why don't they?" with this kind of thing. It's hard to reconcile with the fact that over half the squad earns in a fortnight what the average person takes him in a year with the fact that they may not want - or even be able - to defer their wages for long.
This argument assumes that all footballers live within their means, are not supporting a substantial network of wider family at home or abroad, and don't have a mortgage which takes a significant part of their salary. Our players would have made their financial decisions based on their wages for the length of their contract.
That's not to say we should feel sorry for them, or to say their situation is anywhere near as sticky as others. Just to highlight the fact that even a measure like this is wrapped up with human complications.

Surely that’s a typo….I’d be earwigging for England ? it’s up there with reading upside down when in a meeting in your bosses office ?

Surely that’s a typo….I’d be earwigging for England ? it’s up there with reading upside down when in a meeting in your bosses office ?

Surely that’s a typo….I’d be earwigging for England ? it’s up there with reading upside down when in a meeting in your bosses office ?

It’s almost like he was a rookie learning as he goes….

There’s chasing a ball and effort and then there’s tactical closing down and setting traps. Baldock’s role out of possession sets the tone for every other player in the side. 
Dont underestimate it. Im sure he’d prefer to be playing for Man U and getting 20 touches inside the penalty box and 3 tap ins every game…

There’s chasing a ball and effort and then there’s tactical closing down and setting traps. Baldock’s role out of possession sets the tone for every other player in the side. 
Dont underestimate it. Im sure he’d prefer to be playing for Man U and getting 20 touches inside the penalty box and 3 tap ins every game…

I don’t understand the criticism of Baldock…yes he’s had little or no impact but his job tonight is chasing lost causes and grafting selflessly for his team. He’s feeding of scraps at best….and very low quality scraps at that. I understand it’s frustrating but by comparison Knight literally hasn’t had a touch but received no criticism for his performance at all ?‍♂️
 
Surely we have to understand the lone striker role, away, at the top of the league, with your side playing a much different route 1 game isn’t exactly made for sparkling performances from 5’9” strikers?

I don’t understand the criticism of Baldock…yes he’s had little or no impact but his job tonight is chasing lost causes and grafting selflessly for his team. He’s feeding of scraps at best….and very low quality scraps at that. I understand it’s frustrating but by comparison Knight literally hasn’t had a touch but received no criticism for his performance at all ?‍♂️
 
Surely we have to understand the lone striker role, away, at the top of the league, with your side playing a much different route 1 game isn’t exactly made for sparkling performances from 5’9” strikers?

Pretty sure that was young Dylan….equally sure it was one of only 2 / 3 errors he made all night 

I don’t understand the criticism of Baldock…yes he’s had little or no impact but his job tonight is chasing lost causes and grafting selflessly for his team. He’s feeding of scraps at best….and very low quality scraps at that. I understand it’s frustrating but by comparison Knight literally hasn’t had a touch but received no criticism for his performance at all ?‍♂️
 
Surely we have to understand the lone striker role, away, at the top of the league, with your side playing a much different route 1 game isn’t exactly made for sparkling performances from 5’9” strikers?

You're right regarding West Brom's style but a midfield that concedes possession as much as Knight/Shinnie will just give them numerous opportunities to launch the ball at us. The best way to stop that bombardment (in my opinion) is to starve them of the ball & cut down their outlets from out wide. Also fear our front men will be totally isolated unless we're just looking to hit it long into space behind their wing backs - we don't have the quality to play through their press now.
There is merit in your point that West Brom will tire second half (and their press therefore less intense) & at that point, we could look to play our natural game. My concern is that we could be out the game by that stage though.

His first touch and overall control of the ball I think needs quite a bit of work. The final pass is not just technique either but I'd say having the football intelligence to see it which he does lack a bit too which links in to his struggles positionally. Byrne isn't perfect positionally but he's much better than Ebosele in this sense from what I've seen in his first team appearances. 
I think the coaching staff need to decide where they want to play him and stick with it. If they want him as a more defensive player they'll need to work on different things than if they want him really to be an attacking winger. Currently, he looks like a player who has a bit of the skillset for each position but doesn't look great in either role at this level yet for me which is why I said he's an odd one. 

He's a player that needs to be carefully moulded i think before he can really do a good job at this level and it's probably better to do that on the training pitch and the odd 20 minutes than starting regularly. 

I think that’s quite an astute / accurate summary if I’m honest. I think plenty are in danger of judging too favorably too soon having seen too little and can be blinded by the perception exciting pace gives rather than a more practical view.