Ravabeerbelly

That’s my point….if you’re waiting for the “next stage” I’m not sure you’ll see it. He may of course get a bit braver…look at Shinnies pass for the goal last…but it’s not his game and it won’t become his game because he’s not that type. His defensive work is probably his biggest asset. If you’re expecting the messiah you’re going to experience perennial disappointment.

Liam has done exceptionally well but anyone thinking he’s going to play defence splitting passes hasn’t seen him play prior to this. How he’s played the last three games is exactly how he’s played in the 23s and 18s before that. That’s not a criticism btw but an understanding of the type of player he is will help avoid disappointment from those that want him to be something else.
His defensive work was exceptionally good for a player of his age. His ball retention was excellent but I agree with the other comment on it which is he doesn’t play forward passes and his game is, generally speaking, about finding the next player in the link and passing to the exact person you or I would expect him to pass to…normally the next closest player.
Like I say that’s not a criticism but it is a type that we seem to have cultivated in abundance (Max Bird and now it seems Ravel Morrison) and to make it worse from what I’ve seen in the 23s it’s also what we’ve turned Louie Watson into and also what it seems people like in Darren Robinson. 
Whether its our predicament and the importance the staff have and do place on not losing and by retaining possession we limit the oppositions chances of scoring I don’t know but players like Jozwiak and Sibley are possibly seen as too much of a risk within that framework. 
FWIW I don’t think Liams performance last night was any worse or any better and importantly it wasn’t any different to his performance against Bournemouth….but with a different result comes a different perception sand I’ve found in football perception is king and facts mean very little. 

Liam has done exceptionally well but anyone thinking he’s going to play defence splitting passes hasn’t seen him play prior to this. How he’s played the last three games is exactly how he’s played in the 23s and 18s before that. That’s not a criticism btw but an understanding of the type of player he is will help avoid disappointment from those that want him to be something else.
His defensive work was exceptionally good for a player of his age. His ball retention was excellent but I agree with the other comment on it which is he doesn’t play forward passes and his game is, generally speaking, about finding the next player in the link and passing to the exact person you or I would expect him to pass to…normally the next closest player.
Like I say that’s not a criticism but it is a type that we seem to have cultivated in abundance (Max Bird and now it seems Ravel Morrison) and to make it worse from what I’ve seen in the 23s it’s also what we’ve turned Louie Watson into and also what it seems people like in Darren Robinson. 
Whether its our predicament and the importance the staff have and do place on not losing and by retaining possession we limit the oppositions chances of scoring I don’t know but players like Jozwiak and Sibley are possibly seen as too much of a risk within that framework. 
FWIW I don’t think Liams performance last night was any worse or any better and importantly it wasn’t any different to his performance against Bournemouth….but with a different result comes a different perception sand I’ve found in football perception is king and facts mean very little. 

Yea that’s right because we’ve seen them change decisions based on players appealing so many times ?

Difference between top Championship standard and bottom six standard. QPR deserved to win, looked far more coherent throughout and the individual quality to boot. 

He is doing pretty well but people are getting over excited. Barely played a forward pass all game. Showing promise, neat and tidy but nothing progressive.
Puts tin hat on.

I'm not sure what other clubs may or may not be deducted points this season, but others gave suggested it is a possibility, and in these uncertain times, how can anybody rule it out?
My point however Ram1988 was specifically aimed at the comment on our goal difference being superior to the teams in and around the bottom of the table. In most cases it is, but Reading's goal difference is better than all of the teams around them except ours.
Any other clubs being deducted points this season, if they were sat mid table before such a points deduction would in theory have a much better goal difference than say Barnsley or Peterborough.
So my point was, that whilst our goal difference looks like it would give us an advantage over teams genuinely in a relegation battle because they are poor, it might not give us as much of an advantage over any teams that are in a relegation battle due to a points deduction, like Reading game. Sorry if I didn't make that clear.

Arsenal simply had no interest in defending. They had 10 technically gifted footballers who all wanted to pass the ball take players on and look good…..and a goalkeeper! They had wing backs who were wingers and two CMs who’s only interest was splitting and getting on the ball with no interest in getting back together to close space when they (Arsenal) lost possession. It played right into Sibleys hands who just stayed on the space they left and waited for the ball to arrive….which it did from Watson several times. 
Patino is heralded as the new Wilshere but as talented as he is he has none of Wilsheres ‘bite’ and lost his way in the game as we gradually just out worked them….however it could easily have been 7-7!!!

Arsenal simply had no interest in defending. They had 10 technically gifted footballers who all wanted to pass the ball take players on and look good…..and a goalkeeper! They had wing backs who were wingers and two CMs who’s only interest was splitting and getting on the ball with no interest in getting back together to close space when they (Arsenal) lost possession. It played right into Sibleys hands who just stayed on the space they left and waited for the ball to arrive….which it did from Watson several times. 
Patino is heralded as the new Wilshere but as talented as he is he has none of Wilsheres ‘bite’ and lost his way in the game as we gradually just out worked them….however it could easily have been 7-7!!!

Arsenal simply had no interest in defending. They had 10 technically gifted footballers who all wanted to pass the ball take players on and look good…..and a goalkeeper! They had wing backs who were wingers and two CMs who’s only interest was splitting and getting on the ball with no interest in getting back together to close space when they (Arsenal) lost possession. It played right into Sibleys hands who just stayed on the space they left and waited for the ball to arrive….which it did from Watson several times. 
Patino is heralded as the new Wilshere but as talented as he is he has none of Wilsheres ‘bite’ and lost his way in the game as we gradually just out worked them….however it could easily have been 7-7!!!

Agree it was a super debut. Here are the teams passing stats :-
 

I know it applies in other instances like ‘appearances’ in player contracts linked to bonuses or contract triggers. It helps avoid those ‘loopholes’ mentioned 

Agree it was a super debut. Here are the teams passing stats :-
 

Pay Lyons said both him and Stretton have knee injuries 

Let’s not clog up the match thread after such a great win….and let’s be realistic also ?

Let’s not clog up the match thread after such a great win….and let’s be realistic also ?

We have 2 forward thinking fullbacks, We have 2 ageing Centre backs, When we lose the ball we're outpaced and undermanned

It's got everything to do with tactics.
That's what English football is based on. If the team with the best 11 players won every game, football would die in empty stadiums.
A lesser team of average players, playing to their strengths, and knowing their weaknesses, with a competent manager and with tactics suited to those strengths and weaknesses, should be capable of giving anybody a game.
We have an obvious weakness in the way we play, the opposition know it, but we keep doing it. For God's sake why?
As others have said, play like this in League 1 and we'll struggle big style.
Sort it out Wayne!

Rooney couldn't predict a professional footballer couldn't control a 4 foot pass. 

Absolutely. Support any player pulling on the shirt full stop. However it doesn’t sit well with me when an u16 who hasn’t ever been selected to play U23s is deemed a better option on the bench to any of the U23s ?‍♂️
 

Good luck to Kellyman but I don’t agree with the methodology or the politics that suggests are involved.
Its a business decision that as with Kaide Gordon may have financially made a difference to the compensation but what message does that send out to other players when someone who’s not even earned a 23s call up can sit on the bench? Are you seriously thinking as a potential sub he can offer a better alternative than Sibley / Watson would?

Not just that he is a goal-scorer/forward and looks a better prospect then? ?

Listening to the interview I’d say Thompson will start today. 
 
Strange one tbh honest. I think he’ll be a good player but to come in cold from the 23s all season for a game in live tv v top of the table makes no sense.
I wonder if Watson being on 2 starts and a third adds him to the squad list influences that choice? 

I can’t believe how differently people see the game sometimes.
I felt Watson was ineffective. Didn’t dictate possession at all and rarely looked to contribute something that changed the game. Williams looked a little off it to me too. His touch wasn’t great and I don’t think he put in one decent delivery all night. 
Cashin needs to be careful. If he considers for a moment that he’s a ball playing centre half who can spray the ball about he will end up with a short career. If he concentrates on doing what he is good at which is defending and giving the ball to the ball players he’ll have a career beyond his ability levels. 

I can’t believe how differently people see the game sometimes.
I felt Watson was ineffective. Didn’t dictate possession at all and rarely looked to contribute something that changed the game. Williams looked a little off it to me too. His touch wasn’t great and I don’t think he put in one decent delivery all night. 
Cashin needs to be careful. If he considers for a moment that he’s a ball playing centre half who can spray the ball about he will end up with a short career. If he concentrates on doing what he is good at which is defending and giving the ball to the ball players he’ll have a career beyond his ability levels.