Alty_Ram

My take for what it's worth, I don't believe for a second that any fan would be upset by last nights result.
We all want Derby to be successful, however we all have different ideas on how that can be achieved.
The more vocal and extreme calls for Warne out, will create a stronger defence for Warne on the other side.
What happens is both sides become so distant where no middle ground can be found, you end up with this told you so, where are you now, can't moan now type situations.
Happens all over, not just this forum, not just football. 
Whilst we're all mostly anonymous behind a keyboard, things will never change whilst we have a manager that splits fans as Warne and the likes of Rowett did.

I have to admit to being a bit baffled by the strength of feeling and negativity towards this. There is a clearly a load of baggage around this whole issue that I am not really understanding despite reading the objections, but I would have thought that if it is an option for some level of fan representation in whatever form, then that is better than no representation ?
I don't have a clue who is the best person to represent fans in this scenario other than certainly not me, because I don't frankly understand enough of what is required. I feel reasonably sure though that any fans group is made up of people who are surely by definition, fans and followers of our great club. When the ball hits the net and I leap about and celebrate with complete strangers, I'm not asking for their membership cards to see if they might be celebrating for questionable reasons or because of some sinister agenda that will only become clear when they revert to their evil alien lizard form. I just don't know what folk think is going to happen.

I have to admit to being a bit baffled by the strength of feeling and negativity towards this. There is a clearly a load of baggage around this whole issue that I am not really understanding despite reading the objections, but I would have thought that if it is an option for some level of fan representation in whatever form, then that is better than no representation ?
I don't have a clue who is the best person to represent fans in this scenario other than certainly not me, because I don't frankly understand enough of what is required. I feel reasonably sure though that any fans group is made up of people who are surely by definition, fans and followers of our great club. When the ball hits the net and I leap about and celebrate with complete strangers, I'm not asking for their membership cards to see if they might be celebrating for questionable reasons or because of some sinister agenda that will only become clear when they revert to their evil alien lizard form. I just don't know what folk think is going to happen.

Yeah, exactly. A lot of other teams fans still don't seemed to have grasped just how perilously close we were. I've read some absolute garbage written on social media by the ill-informed (that's pretty much the same thing I guess..) that suggests that we were 'always going to get dug out of the s*** by someone'. That is absolutely not true. It was the Clowes cavalry, driven by a desire to save his club for the city; or absolute and utter oblivion and start again with a phoenix club at whatever level we would be allowed to participate. It was that black and white. Time had run out, the good ship DCFC was going down with all hands.
The fans were outstanding in terms of loyalty and resilience and raising the profile of the issue but we cannot save a club on our own with the staggering debt profile of some clubs these days. The sheer size of the unserviceable debt that can be run up, and the way that owners can just throw a club and fans and history under a bus, and the way that primary assets like the stadium can be separated from the football side of things, added to the tacit encouragement by the EFL to let teams sue each other for damages for any perceived wrongdoing and it is surely just a matter of time before a bigger club pops in a messy way, and even then some people will still be surprised by this when it happens.
People have to stop assuming that some Arab Sheik or wealthy American consortium will just sort it out - The debt in the championship even is getting beyond the means of anyone but the absolutely loaded. Where there is no financial case to be made for buying a club because of issue like above (no stadium asset, crippling debt, guaranteed relegation due to points deductions, looming litigation etc) then you are left hoping for a miracle. A miracle that makes little financial sense to sort.

The current crop of bigger sides that are in trouble may be OK because they don't have all these factors stacked up against them, but our situation will not be unique unless rules change. Someone else will suffer that perfect storm of circumstances because nothing has been addressed in the governance and finance of the game.

The Scunthorpe example is particularly scary because the owner seems to be actually taking glee in their plight.

Not everyone has a David Clowes riding over the hill on a white charger. Sometimes that noise approaching is just another 10,000 orcs who have come to burn your castle down.

Jeez, what a total shambles 😞 
Not just in financial trouble, they're mired in litigation and don't even have a ground to call their own. Sounds horribly familiar... At least the numbers required to save them would presumably be chickenfeed in comparison to us. Even so it would probably need a local business person with a love for the club, not their business head on. That also sounds familiar.
As always, you feel for the fans.

I think unfortunately, our team on Saturday was one that had neither of our most cultured players in the form of Hourihane and Bird. Sure, we created some decent chances but for all that we seemed to control possession, we never really did so in areas that created a consistent threat. Aside from the first 15-20 mins where they were a bit more front foot, , Cambridge seemed content for us to have the ball in our own half and we knocked it about without seemingly much of a plan or any ability to really carve them open. As soon as we got to the final 3rd we looked like we'd run out of ideas and we either hit the first defender with the cross or overshot everyone. Certainly poor execution hampered us but the strategy seemed to be what the players were asked to do.
You need to give some credit to Cambridge but I honestly think that the way we played would make anyone look organised and disciplined. We just had no cutting edge and our sole plan seemed to be to dash down the flanks, bang a cross in, and hope that someone could get on the end. We never looked like we were going to pick anyone out by threading a ball through, or curl one into the top corner. It was pure percentages football where if we hit enough crosses in then something will probably happen. We also seemed reluctant to shoot from the edge of the box which seemed odd. We always seemed to want to push it out wide and then try to bang a cross in and hope for the best and any well-drilled defence will lap that up all day with our lack of much of an aerial threat.
Hopefully Hourihane returning can give us a bit of much needed guile but the tactics need to be more than just hit and hope crossing.

Yeah, exactly. A lot of other teams fans still don't seemed to have grasped just how perilously close we were. I've read some absolute garbage written on social media by the ill-informed (that's pretty much the same thing I guess..) that suggests that we were 'always going to get dug out of the s*** by someone'. That is absolutely not true. It was the Clowes cavalry, driven by a desire to save his club for the city; or absolute and utter oblivion and start again with a phoenix club at whatever level we would be allowed to participate. It was that black and white. Time had run out, the good ship DCFC was going down with all hands.
The fans were outstanding in terms of loyalty and resilience and raising the profile of the issue but we cannot save a club on our own with the staggering debt profile of some clubs these days. The sheer size of the unserviceable debt that can be run up, and the way that owners can just throw a club and fans and history under a bus, and the way that primary assets like the stadium can be separated from the football side of things, added to the tacit encouragement by the EFL to let teams sue each other for damages for any perceived wrongdoing and it is surely just a matter of time before a bigger club pops in a messy way, and even then some people will still be surprised by this when it happens.
People have to stop assuming that some Arab Sheik or wealthy American consortium will just sort it out - The debt in the championship even is getting beyond the means of anyone but the absolutely loaded. Where there is no financial case to be made for buying a club because of issue like above (no stadium asset, crippling debt, guaranteed relegation due to points deductions, looming litigation etc) then you are left hoping for a miracle. A miracle that makes little financial sense to sort.

The current crop of bigger sides that are in trouble may be OK because they don't have all these factors stacked up against them, but our situation will not be unique unless rules change. Someone else will suffer that perfect storm of circumstances because nothing has been addressed in the governance and finance of the game.

The Scunthorpe example is particularly scary because the owner seems to be actually taking glee in their plight.

Not everyone has a David Clowes riding over the hill on a white charger. Sometimes that noise approaching is just another 10,000 orcs who have come to burn your castle down.

Yeah, exactly. A lot of other teams fans still don't seemed to have grasped just how perilously close we were. I've read some absolute garbage written on social media by the ill-informed (that's pretty much the same thing I guess..) that suggests that we were 'always going to get dug out of the s*** by someone'. That is absolutely not true. It was the Clowes cavalry, driven by a desire to save his club for the city; or absolute and utter oblivion and start again with a phoenix club at whatever level we would be allowed to participate. It was that black and white. Time had run out, the good ship DCFC was going down with all hands.
The fans were outstanding in terms of loyalty and resilience and raising the profile of the issue but we cannot save a club on our own with the staggering debt profile of some clubs these days. The sheer size of the unserviceable debt that can be run up, and the way that owners can just throw a club and fans and history under a bus, and the way that primary assets like the stadium can be separated from the football side of things, added to the tacit encouragement by the EFL to let teams sue each other for damages for any perceived wrongdoing and it is surely just a matter of time before a bigger club pops in a messy way, and even then some people will still be surprised by this when it happens.
People have to stop assuming that some Arab Sheik or wealthy American consortium will just sort it out - The debt in the championship even is getting beyond the means of anyone but the absolutely loaded. Where there is no financial case to be made for buying a club because of issue like above (no stadium asset, crippling debt, guaranteed relegation due to points deductions, looming litigation etc) then you are left hoping for a miracle. A miracle that makes little financial sense to sort.

The current crop of bigger sides that are in trouble may be OK because they don't have all these factors stacked up against them, but our situation will not be unique unless rules change. Someone else will suffer that perfect storm of circumstances because nothing has been addressed in the governance and finance of the game.

The Scunthorpe example is particularly scary because the owner seems to be actually taking glee in their plight.

Not everyone has a David Clowes riding over the hill on a white charger. Sometimes that noise approaching is just another 10,000 orcs who have come to burn your castle down.

Ah OK, it seemed to be a VPN thing so perhaps country restricted ? Anyway, cheers for that. Yeah, Gasly not a happy bunny... I imagine that was a fun chat later !

As you know, given the very limited opportunities to make any money at this level, I believe that financially its very much worth getting to Wembley and winning, so on that score yeah, I'd be happy to win it. Until that stage though it's just a worrying opportunity to pick up injuries in an already fairly congested calendar. That said, after having so many players out with various injuries, it's actually proving a useful way of getting some minutes for players returning.

As you know, given the very limited opportunities to make any money at this level, I believe that financially its very much worth getting to Wembley and winning, so on that score yeah, I'd be happy to win it. Until that stage though it's just a worrying opportunity to pick up injuries in an already fairly congested calendar. That said, after having so many players out with various injuries, it's actually proving a useful way of getting some minutes for players returning.

PP is a bit of a double edged sword at times. A big noisy home crowd is obviously a significant advantage and the players and manager seem to all say as much, but if it's a really flat performance with little goalmouth action then it settles down into that really distinctive murmur as people just start chatting. Some of that conversation may be about the game but I suspect that much of it is about what takeaway folk are going to get tonight.
In South Stand you get phases where the crowd try to rouse the team but it is a 2-way thing and if the match is dire then it soon settles down - the players need to play their part to get things going too. Part of this may be tactical as the opposition are all too aware of the potential power of a Derby team with their tails up and a big crowd roaring them on so they may be consciously trying to quieten the crowd, but once we get to the murmur stage, it often seems to be quite difficult to get the momentum back. Not always though and I honestly can't say why that is. Sometimes a crunching tackle or one slick move can set it all off again and other times its just flat. We seem to get that a lot with early kickoffs.
If South Stand is rocking then it often carries other stands with it but completely agree re comments about East Stand. I used to be up there and there was a bit of banter with South Stand but that seems increasingly rare these days.
Agree also re the relative predictability of the songs. In truth, I just don't know (and have never understood) how the dynamics of new songs work either. It needs a core of people to try it but also a wider group to pick that up and run with it. I see threads about new songs but you rarely see these appear but I'm as guilty as anyone in that I have never tried to start something new and I'm sure that most folk would say the same.
The noise and crowd at PP can be a huge asset but it's often a mixed blessing as a groan spreads round the ground when a pass goes straight into touch. I don't know how you 'fix' that though. At other times the atmosphere either home or away can be absolutely rabid for no apparent reason with the crowd roaring every challenge and at other times it's so quiet that you can hear text alerts pinging, but barely audible above the dreaded murmur of distraction.

Wait, you mean that they have been throwing huge sums of money at this for years for years to steal a competitive advantage by creating a massively uneven financial playing field and are not in fact paragons of sporting virtue who should be hailed as saviours of the game ?
Well bugger me... who knew, right ?

PP is a bit of a double edged sword at times. A big noisy home crowd is obviously a significant advantage and the players and manager seem to all say as much, but if it's a really flat performance with little goalmouth action then it settles down into that really distinctive murmur as people just start chatting. Some of that conversation may be about the game but I suspect that much of it is about what takeaway folk are going to get tonight.
In South Stand you get phases where the crowd try to rouse the team but it is a 2-way thing and if the match is dire then it soon settles down - the players need to play their part to get things going too. Part of this may be tactical as the opposition are all too aware of the potential power of a Derby team with their tails up and a big crowd roaring them on so they may be consciously trying to quieten the crowd, but once we get to the murmur stage, it often seems to be quite difficult to get the momentum back. Not always though and I honestly can't say why that is. Sometimes a crunching tackle or one slick move can set it all off again and other times its just flat. We seem to get that a lot with early kickoffs.
If South Stand is rocking then it often carries other stands with it but completely agree re comments about East Stand. I used to be up there and there was a bit of banter with South Stand but that seems increasingly rare these days.
Agree also re the relative predictability of the songs. In truth, I just don't know (and have never understood) how the dynamics of new songs work either. It needs a core of people to try it but also a wider group to pick that up and run with it. I see threads about new songs but you rarely see these appear but I'm as guilty as anyone in that I have never tried to start something new and I'm sure that most folk would say the same.
The noise and crowd at PP can be a huge asset but it's often a mixed blessing as a groan spreads round the ground when a pass goes straight into touch. I don't know how you 'fix' that though. At other times the atmosphere either home or away can be absolutely rabid for no apparent reason with the crowd roaring every challenge and at other times it's so quiet that you can hear text alerts pinging, but barely audible above the dreaded murmur of distraction.

No, me neither because I think the tendency is for the ball to just come straight back at you and I also think that you are more likely to get a clumsy tackle in your own box from someone who is not a defender. It just makes sense to me to put one of your quicker players up the pitch so you have someone to chase a clearance and let everyone push up. The attacking team is not likely to leave just one player back then to mark them as that is a high risk approach as they may slip or get beaten for pace so it pulls a couple of players out of the attack.

In terms of Warne's idea that it prevents the opposition having space, well the counter to that is that it is increasingly difficult for your keeper to claim the ball though a more congested penalty area. Warne being Warne, I'm sure that he has decided on this tactic through analysing some stats but it feels counterintuitive to me.

Wait, you mean that they have been throwing huge sums of money at this for years for years to steal a competitive advantage by creating a massively uneven financial playing field and are not in fact paragons of sporting virtue who should be hailed as saviours of the game ?
Well bugger me... who knew, right ?

Best race for a long while IMHO. Podium positions occupied by 3 different manufacturers and Verstappen and Red Bull nowhere to be seen. Great to see 3 cars still locked in a tussle round the last bend and 5 different cars in the top 6 - what a refreshing change. I've wandered off from so many races this year (even fell asleep during one!) but this one had me on the edge of my seat right up to the line. Probably too much to ask for any repeat, sadly..

No, me neither because I think the tendency is for the ball to just come straight back at you and I also think that you are more likely to get a clumsy tackle in your own box from someone who is not a defender. It just makes sense to me to put one of your quicker players up the pitch so you have someone to chase a clearance and let everyone push up. The attacking team is not likely to leave just one player back then to mark them as that is a high risk approach as they may slip or get beaten for pace so it pulls a couple of players out of the attack.

In terms of Warne's idea that it prevents the opposition having space, well the counter to that is that it is increasingly difficult for your keeper to claim the ball though a more congested penalty area. Warne being Warne, I'm sure that he has decided on this tactic through analysing some stats but it feels counterintuitive to me.

Best race for a long while IMHO. Podium positions occupied by 3 different manufacturers and Verstappen and Red Bull nowhere to be seen. Great to see 3 cars still locked in a tussle round the last bend and 5 different cars in the top 6 - what a refreshing change. I've wandered off from so many races this year (even fell asleep during one!) but this one had me on the edge of my seat right up to the line. Probably too much to ask for any repeat, sadly..

No, me neither because I think the tendency is for the ball to just come straight back at you and I also think that you are more likely to get a clumsy tackle in your own box from someone who is not a defender. It just makes sense to me to put one of your quicker players up the pitch so you have someone to chase a clearance and let everyone push up. The attacking team is not likely to leave just one player back then to mark them as that is a high risk approach as they may slip or get beaten for pace so it pulls a couple of players out of the attack.

In terms of Warne's idea that it prevents the opposition having space, well the counter to that is that it is increasingly difficult for your keeper to claim the ball though a more congested penalty area. Warne being Warne, I'm sure that he has decided on this tactic through analysing some stats but it feels counterintuitive to me.

That is still possible.
So, what a race that was.
Right up until Geogey boy ran out of talent. But seriously, there was some good racing amongst the top 5 at the end there after Ocon's car broke down and both Mercs pitted whilst Lando and the Ferrari's stayed out.
Further back, verstappen got up to 5th, whilst Perez got up to 8th with Checo, as usual, making everything look a lot harder than his team mate. Then Gasly, Pistri, Perez, Lawson (get him in 24) and K-mags (woo hoo, a point for Haas).
Bad day for Fernando. Annoyingly just out the points for Albon, everyone else meh or broke down. Lance didn't even start which after a high speed crash is probably best not to risk.
 
 

I absolutely loved the moment max was out in Q2.
I don't think I'm the only one.
It was also nice to have a Q3 that didn't end with "oh it's tense and exiti....oh max has pole by half a second"
I'm loving how good Carlos is driving and looking forward to a race that isn't caveated"it's fantastic behind max Verstappen "

Only just caught up with qualifying - what a whingey little bitch Max is when everything isn’t going perfectly for him - at one point he was moaning that there were too many cars on track 😂

After last season's narrow failure to get into the playoffs with a hurriedly assembled scratch team, I don't think that an expectation from fans of doing better this year is unreasonable, particularly when there was talk of having a fair bit more financial flexibility to tweak an already reasonably decent side and to fill it with players who fit the manager's chosen style rather than some square pegs in round holes. I don't think it's fair to expect us to spend nothing and walk the league but an improvement is something that you should always be looking for unless you are in financial trouble and having to shed your best players.

The challenge has come with the recruitment and injuries. I don't think the recruitment worked out quite as well as Warne had hoped and we've had a string of injuries before the season has even really got started. Add to that a pretty challenging start fixtures-wise and I guess our current position is not entirely surprising at this stage.

That said, once we've got our teeth properly into this season and we've got a few of these players back then we'll have more options and I think it is perfectly reasonable, even with one of two longer term injuries, for us to be expecting to be in the mix. I don't think it is reasonable to consider anything less than automatic promotion as a failure because our fee outlay is negligible, but surely an expectation going a minimum 1 place and potentially just 1 point better than last year and being involved in the playoffs is perfectly reasonable ?

I also think that money from bigger gate receipts probably only really works as a significant advantage in the lower leagues. By the time you are in the top flight, the extra fans (and therefore gate money) vs anyone else in that league is just not really that big a factor as TV money dwarfs the money coming through the turnstiles. That's how the likes of Brentford, Fulham etc seem to manage not to struggle. They obviously can't compete with the Man Utd's of this world for players fees and wages because their (United's) worldwide presence is a huge factor in their wealth but as the likes of Everton are finding out, no amount of history or bigger gates is going to guarantee you finishing ahead of these smaller teams, not with the way the top flight finances are structured.