Footymum2017

2 hours ago, Charlie George said:

Alan Nixon suggesting three more of our younger players are moving on.

@Footymum2017 can you shed any light on this ?

Not heard about any u15s but they’re interested in one of the U14s apparently.

8 minutes ago, Stuniverse said:

I think these are both trialists. Jaden Forrester is a Wolves player and Steven Bala, I think, is at AFC Bournemouth.

Yes Forrester was at Wolves, he’s an u18, must have not been offered a pro at wolves.

48 minutes ago, Bald Eagle's Barmy Army said:

I know a better game - lets ask a 16 year old without an agent in his ear thinking about his/her commission when the deal gets done.

IMO, anybody still at school should never have a decision made by money and a decision should be solely based on the development of that child. Even his mum said yesterday he was being paid 4x what Derby offered. This lads decision isn't based on football matters, only financial gain. 

When Kaide walked into Moor Farm when he was 6/7/8 whatever age he came through, Derby was the right move for him. Why isn't it now? Money, money, money. And again, his mum said last night, look at the training facilities of Liverpool compared to Derby. So disrespectful to say that because those facilities have got him to where he is now during the last 10 years. 

Enjoy the limelight for the next few months/years and hopefully you've made the right decision for your son. 

I’m not Kaide’s mum.

Your local club is always the right move when you’re 7, that’s who you’re you’re going to get scouted for usually but that doesn’t mean that its the right choice 8 years down the line. Nobody knows which club he will develop better at. Derby have done what is right for them and will be making far more than he ‘owes them’ for the training that he’s had.

And i don’t think he’s got an agent!

You’re entitled to your opinion but to say that the decision is just based on money when you don’t know anything about it is wrong.

10 hours ago, Ramslad1992 said:

As you know so much about this I’m guessing you’re his mum? ?‍♂️
 

for his sake I truly hope he succeeds as being so young he could get swallowed up or be the next Stevie G. 
 

My money would be on him going to a German team in 3 or 4 years for 5 times what we are getting for him...

No I’m not his mum. I have know him  since he was about 8 and watched him play probably a 100 times, my own son has been in the academy system for the last 8 years so i think i am better qualified to comment than the majority on here. What i will say aswell is that the majority of lads at Derbys academy would be off if a serious offer came in for them. 

7 minutes ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said:

It's not.  The academy is a lot older than ours built in 1998. The head coach there is Marc Bridge-Wilkinson who played for us at the start of his career and then played many years at Port Vale, before coaching at Huddersfield, so I'm not seeing a marked improvement in coaching either. It's for the first team with some facilities for u23's who they expect to move to the first team soon.   But there you go. No point arguing with you.  I'll leave you to your opinion on it.

 

 

My mistake I was going on what was said on the website. 

https://www.liverpoolfc.com/news/axa-training-centre/416188-watch-documentary-a-new-beginning-building-the-axa-training-centre

Are you saying that somebody can’t be a good coach if they played for Derby! Not sure who Derbys 18s have got as a coach at the moment, the academy has lost a lot of coaches in the last 2-3 years many of those haven’t been replaced.

4 minutes ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said:

That's for the first team though

It’s for the academy aswell.

8 minutes ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said:

Liverpool FC Academy are rated as a Category One 

Derby County's academy has been awarded category one 

 

I know, Liverpool have just spent £50 million on a new training ground! Not all Cat 1s are the same.

1 hour ago, Ted McMinn Football Genius said:

How do you know it’s 4 times the amount??

Plus, with regards to “rubbish” statement...I have received and shown loyalty and have done for 25 years, ignoring advances on multiple occasions. Loyalty is a big thing for some and not others clearly!!
 

Now back to the point!!!

We as a club have invested in the lad, his advisors could’ve shown some loyalty to the club that has nurtured him, particularly in the current financial climate we find ourselves in. What is the point in our academy if the bigger clubs are going to spirit our up and comers away for peanuts!!!!

 

 

All scholars get paid from the age of 16 when they start their 2year contract, Liverpool pay approx 4 times what Derby do, although he will only get that for a few months until he’s 17 and signs a pro, which again will be considerably more than Derby’s. Money isn’t the be all and end all though, the coaching and facilities are far better also. Don’t forget Derby could be in league one next season!

Fair play to you for showing loyalty to your employers and turning down better offers, not something that most people would do.

9 hours ago, Ted McMinn Football Genius said:

I’m 100% with you @DanS1992 loyalty is something that cannot be learned. This boy and his advisors clearly have none for DCFC, F.R.O and I hope you enjoy Under 23s football for the next 7-8 years prior to you mr move to Shrewsbury or somewhere else. 

What a load of rubbish, how much loyalty would you show your employer if you got offered a better job on 4 times the money!

4 minutes ago, angieram said:

There's a lot of animosity towards Kaide on here, which is sad. He's a brilliant young player, and he may make it at Liverpool, who knows? 

He might look at his brother Kellan's career path; he chose to stay at Derby, never got a real first team chance, left I think on a free transfer and is now plying his trade for young Nigel over at Mansfield. Great lad, earns a living from the game, but if I was him, I'd be telling Kaide to go for it. There are no definites in football, wherever you end up - why not go and try to compete with the very best? 

Well said! I think if any of these people had experience of what it is like in the Academy System then they wouldn’t be making the comments.  Kaide needs to do what is best for himself and his family, I’m sure that there isn’t anybody on here that wouldn’t accept a better job if they were offered one!

7 minutes ago, cheron85 said:

Unfortunately that is football now - The money side of the game is so important especially to a club like ours which doesn't have PL revenues but aims to compete at the top level

He might be 16 but that's the exact age when potential professionals have to make some kind of commitment - Fully appreciate he's just a kid but he's also old enough to have left school and be in full time employment now - And why should the club give him time to make a decision for his benefit which might screw them over?

From a club standpoint if an offer is/was on the table and he's chosen not to take it Derby have to look out for the investment they've made in him - We have a manager who was playing first team football at this age and made a firm and decisive commitment to the club who developed him so will probably expect that of other people too

He's not old enough to have left school, he's in his last year.  He hadn't made the decision, that is my point and as I said they wouldn't have let him go if they didn't need the money.  So Derby haven't lost out, they have done what is best for them at this moment in time.

13 minutes ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said:

 

Derby can't sell him . They can only get a fee based on his age or go to tribunal. He's forced there hand by not accepting a contract offer and had no problem committing to an offer from Liverpool where game time will be harder to come by, so that one doesn't really wash. Will Hughes was playing regular at 17. Huddlestone at 16.  Hendrick just turned 18.  If he's good enough he would get games.

I'm not going to keep going over it, if you think that you know better then fair enough.  At the end of the day he is a 16 year old kid, who was trying to make the best decision about his future, I'm not sure what is so wrong with that and why they couldn't give him the time to make that decision. They needed the money and that's why he's going.

10 hours ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said:

Ok United then.  Still the same scenario though. I assume this pre agreement is all because of his age leading to a pro contract at 17. Why would we wait based on his potential for Man utd to come in.  Offering him a contract to put him in the shop window makes no sense, you only lose out long term .  You offer a contract and get it signed, then put him in the shop window by him being round the first team. 

They were trying to persuade him to sign by putting him on the bench, he was unsure about committing so early when he hasn’t even started his 2 year scholar contract yet. He was never going to come on for the 1st team unless they were winning comfortably. He’s nowhere near ready for first team football and I would imagine that if he had signed the pre agreement then he would be back down to the 18s or 23s, it’s not doing him any good sitting on the bench.  When Derby got a confirmed bid for him which they rejected he was basically told that if a higher bid came in that they would sell him.

20 minutes ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said:

So Derby have supposedly one of the shining lights in European football in his age group and wait till Liverpool show an interest to look at giving him a contract.   

It was United initially. He’s contracted for the next 2 years as a scholar. It was a pre agreement for a pro that was offered.

19 minutes ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said:

Derby offered him a contract ?????

When they knew another club was interested, to try and increase his value.

24 minutes ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said:

Just a play on the journalists words mate .  I hate the way these things are reported. It's put across like we had any choice.  regarding the 200k I posted last week that as a 16 year old, a fee of around the base limit there required to pay will give him a nice signing on fee with the normal performance related additions. That would turn your head not unreasonably. We will have had too take a pants fee at the lowest rate possible rather than risk tribunal due to our position.

i have seen on here that as he's not 17 till October he can't sign a pro contract.  That begs the question why they wouldn't wait and pay nothing in October.  

Theres always been a food chain in football- up to Madrid and Barcelona at the top.  If this lad came into the team, was brilliant and went to Liverpool for twenty million, fair enough.  If we were 4th in the premier league and Liverpool came in a player will normally go today.  The days of handshake agreements where Goddard and Seth Johnson rejected moves to Liverpool as they gave there word they were coming here are gone.

I think our club is worth more than becoming a feeder club of talent for those who click there fingers though, we may as well call our academy Premier league take your pick.   There should be a minimum 25% sell on set in stone with these things, probably a 25 % of any loan fees as well as Liverpool can't lose.  If he's brilliant they've got a steal on player we've helped develop for years, ifs he's good but not quite good enough - 5 million in championship/ lower prem loan fees- if he's as good as he gets and they let him go in a few years it's pocket change lost. 

A lot gets said about add ons/ sell ons  as well.  There generally rubbish. Logically if he's good for Liverpool where else is he going.  Most likely nowhere.  If he isn't great he get's let go- no extras. If he goes on loan we get nothing extra other than he might score against us on his Wolves debut like Huddlestone. We most likely get the base minimum from this and that's your lot.

 I find the whole thing, how we are being cherry picked and how it's been reported truly repugnant.

 

Derby put him in the shop window and invited the offers so I don’t know how you can say that he’s been poached!

42 minutes ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said:

Yes. We train young players for a few years.  If there wanted by bigger clubs they go for potentially 10% of there long term value.

 

I don’t think £3million is a paltry fee for a 16 year old who hasn’t done anything yet! I’m sure there are add ons aswell based on future performance.

37 minutes ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said:

Fixed that to-

Liverpool have press ganged Derby into taking a paltry fee for a young player, who decided a 200 k signing on fee would be nice. The fee will be less than they pay there reserve goalie for a month with no adds on as Derby were desperate and couldn't risk a tribunal. 

Derby have potentially lost 20 million in kids in two seasons for 10% of the value -  why bother -take the 5/6 million a year for running the academy and just buy two players.

 

Do you know what the deal is?

1 hour ago, angieram said:

Someone rang Radio Derby last night outraged about the transfer as he reckoned Gordon was the best young prospect he's ever seen play for the under 18s. Given we have been in various states of lockdown and not allowed to go to Academy games all the time he's been playing at that level I thought it was a pretty bold claim.

Unless he was Darran Wassall, of course!

Good luck to young Kaide, sorry to see him go but that's life at Academy level and it's a great opportunity for him. 

They’ve not even allowed parents watch the games so unless he’s a scout he won’t have seen him play really. 

Deal pretty much done, should be announced tomorrow or wednesday. Medical tomorrow.

24 minutes ago, BIllyD said:

? I didn't say we could, I just said it's not a good deal.

However hypothetically if he signed a pro deal, then I'm guessing he could get more ?

Not sure that he would be worth anymore if he had signed a pro contract, it doesn’t change the fact that he’s 16, not even played a full season at u18 and never played an U23 game.

28 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Cat 1 status is essentially an indicator of the quality of coaching... theoretically, the more you spend, the betting the coaching. The added benefit is playing against the best youth sides in the country.

Higher quality players coming through and developing at a faster rate.

It relates to the facilities and the different staff that have to be employed, which adds to the cost of running the academy which means a bigger contribution from the premier league/efl. It doesn’t necessarily mean that the coaches are better, most coaches earn roughly the same unless they’re at one of the big PL club academies.

41 minutes ago, Nick_Ram said:

How much can the board influence the fee? If they can approach him and just pay a compensation fee, maybe this deal works better for us than what any comp would be. 

Let's be honest, we're not exactly the most attractive team to play for right now... 

Compensation due is just over £200k so they are getting a lot more for him than due plus Derby will get add ones depending on how he progresses.

11 minutes ago, MACKWORTHRAM said:

Stephen Pearce was on Radio Derby last week saying we would only sell if it made financial sense.

Selling one of the best 16 year olds in the country for £1 million makes no financial sense at all.

I don't care what financial situation we are in this is disgusting.

If he's that good. Which he obviously is (already training with the first team and Rooney said he's one of the best in training)

Then you keep hold of him and get him in the first team next year.

Just like Birmingham did with Jude Bellingham. He was on of the best 16 year olds in the country. One season in the first team and he's off for £35 million. 

I mean it's pretty clear that everything Stephen Pearce said on the Radio was a lie.

Think you need to take with a pinch of sale anything that Derby say, they’re not known for being truthful. Derby have engineered the tweets and quotes to create a buzz and increase his value. He’s not even done a full season for the U18s so can’t really be judged at a first team level.

28 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

But where is the clubs guarantee that their financial input into a players football education will have recompense? They are not doing this for altruistic reasons - if Kaide doesn't want to commit to the club to help ensure their financial input isn't wasted, then there's lots of other Academy's out there aren't there? The Academy is a commercial enterprise, does Kaide pay to attend?

They are entitled to compensation based on the number of years that the player has been at the club and the category of the academy.  Most of the time they will get more than the compensation due as was the case with Liam Delap. Once a player sides at under 9s for an academy then they cannot leave unless the club releases them or another club pays the ompensation.