Ramewe

Derby City Council on Radio Derby 
definitely not going down without a fight
he’s contacting his counterparts in Middlesbrough & Wycombe about their claims 

Safe to say the Wycombe owner isn’t as well-informed as he thinks . . . 

Or simply opinion of two football club owners who are trying to extort money to grease their own failings 

If this claim isn't sorted very quickly surely we should be thinking about some form of legal civil disobedience that affects Middlesbrough  directly? Things like jamming their ticket phone lines, chaining ourselves to their gates and blocking their entrances, protesting outside their training ground, spamming their email servers? 

Seriously, I think our councillors should publicly offer a goodwill payment to Middlesborough and Wycombe in settlement of claims on condition the proceeds are donated to sports charities. That would certainly feature prominently in the national press and I think it would put significant pressure on them 

At least he said Middlesbrough and Wycombe will be responsible for the liquidation of Derby county as there are 3 bidders sat ready.

If they could point to the bit in the LAP documentation that said we've cheated that'd be great. In fact, did the LAP documentation not go so far as to say that we they do not consider us to have cheated, simply misinterpreted the rules?

Not sure if it’s old news, or of any use but…..
 

As an accountant who has known many (and is married to one) it is not generally a profession renowned for great verbal extrovert communicators. It attracts certain characters usually. They are finance professionals and its unfair to compare their communications, if they are by nature traditional accountants, with slick PR machines from the EFL and other clubs. I would rather have bad communicators who know their stuff and get a job done than slick salesmen type accountants who generally lack substance, attention to detail, technical skills and brains. 
 
can you not see what the efl, boro and WW are doing with their statements - trashing the admins. Its a coordinated stance which based on the comments here is working!
 

What have Quantuma done? They didn’t just release a statement on Friday night, they released a hand grenade which has exploded spectacularly, fans have latched onto it creates momentum and within 2 working days parliament are involved. They’ve not spoken because they haven’t needed to.
EFL have nearly spontaneously combusted with their statement last night. Basically implied their insolvency rules are open to interpretation and subject to change, in other words they make it up as they go along ???
Boro come out today citing systematic cheating as the basis for their claim on a set of arguments already settled and ruled upon by disciplinary commissions (ie stadium sale) and also the same arguments as the case they brought to the LAP which was ruled against, no systematic cheating was found in ANY of the judgements in the original IDC, subsequent LAP, and final IDC ruling, all they have is subjective opinion.
Wycombe, while RD gave Couhig the platform to prove he’s a sharp lawyer, they also let him reveal his reasons for the action, which proves they absolutely have no case at all because the IDC did not rule on the Derby sanction, the fine of £100k and the restatement of accounts until after the season had ended, therefore there is no way the points could have been applied earlier, the whole process we also know was delayed by Boro’s failed action, the LAP judgement told us this.
They have all questioned the actions of Quantuma, of course they are going to!! They want to deflect from the weakness of their arguments and all those parties are concerned about how they’re being portrayed. Are Quantuma bothered, maybe/maybe not but it’s not about saving public face it’s about getting a deal done no matter how dirty it gets. They’ve not spoken to Boro and Wycombe because they don’t believe the claims and have a legal way around them potentially, so they weren’t priority, doing a deal with HMRC was absolute priority, while Pauline Latham said we wasn’t entirely happy about her meeting with the administrators, I’m sure I read another post say she believes it has implied Quantuma have a deal with HMRC. In fact we go back to Quantuma’s statement last Friday and that also implies they have a deal in place with everyone (or at least a route forward) except Boro and Wycombe. The events of the last few days have refocused everyone and led all parties to say they’re willing to come to the table to try and sort this out - maybe that is what they wanted and exactly what was needed.
The MPs are now challenging ALL parties to get this deal done and that is the right approach and Quantuma will be under pressure to deliver on their requirements.
 

I have no idea buddy, but chill. You are tying yourself in knots. It’s great you care, we all care to varying degrees, but there really is very little you, I or anyone, can do unless we have a significant amount of money in our trousers. Quantuma can’t make Ashley (or Appleby) pay more than the figures they have offered, so their hands are tied in that respect. The only thing they had going for them till today was statute, which the EFL were trying to bat away. Today though Government has stepped in - hurrah we cry - and I think Parry and Birch are going to have to have the largest of balls now to cut the Rams adrift on 1 February. Let’s see how they can play their cards (Ashley and Quantuma) now that the EFL have been weakened by events. I will not be judging them for at least another week.

This morning feels like it happened about nine years ago after the day we've had so far.

Well they've done something apparently:
 18 January 2022  Richard Cawley
Millwall have ended their attempts to sign Derby County’s Louie Sibley after the club’s administrators told them the midfielder is not for sale. The Lions were keen on a deal for the 20-year-old and tabled a fourth offer of £450,000 for Sibley this week.
But Derby’s administrators Quantuma have indicated that the player, under contract until 2024, will not be moving on in this window. Millwall have moved on to pursuing other targets. 
https://londonnewsonline.co.uk/millwall-move-on-to-other-targets-after-being-told-Derby-county-target-is-not-for-sale/
 

I feel this deserves its own thread, feel free to merge if not.
We’ve now heard from local MP’s in parliament, fans groups and ex players on social media, Boro and the EFL have released a statement and Wycombe have done an interview on Radio Derby. 
The only people we haven’t heard from are the ones that matter the most in this, the Administrators. Their lack of comms from taking over is both unacceptable and incompetent, they have to be constantly poked and prodded to give us an update. 
That is now Kirchner, the EFL, Boro and Wycombe all saying that the comms from the Administrators has been poor and resulted in delays and breakdowns in communications. 
It’s great that we’re going after the EFL, Boro and Wycombe but we also need to hold the Admins accountable, i’m genuinely concerned about their competency to deal with the situation as much as I am angry with the EFL, Boro and Wycombe 
let’s not forget they’re making millions out of this, they’re not here out of love and passion 

Congratulations to everyone who used social media and emails over the weekend. Don't think any of us thought it would go to parliament in two days. Also a very special thank you to Pauline Latham and all the Derby, Derbyshire and rest of the mps who spoke in the house of commons

Which I’m happy with. Shows they realise they’ve lost control of their cosy “we care about the integrity of the game” ******** narrative. Administrators meeting with local stakeholders and MPs today, and concentrating on addressing the proof of funding and installing a new owner. 

Just to reflect, isn't it amazing what wonderful fans we have. From the EFL sitting with their smug arms folded they now, due to fan power and action, have been forced into a statement of defence and have had their despicable behaviour dragged through Parliament no less. Even the parasites have come out of the woodwork.
Well done all.
 
 

Always knew we were massive.
We've got Covid and Immigration warming the crowd up for us.

Three parties have made offers, any one of which would allow the club to exit administration with a substantial payment to creditors.
These offers need clarity, that the claim by Boro and the potential claim by Wycombe do not qualify as Football Creditors.
The football creditor rule is not defined in the EFL regulations, it is part of the Articles of Association of the Football League Limited, of which all clubs are minority shareholders (the golden share).
The football creditor rule is in Article 48, which clearly defines what constitutes a football creditor, copied below from Companies House.
The rule clearly states that it is to cover payments of "debts due". How possibly, can an unproven, unquantified claim such as Boro's be consider a debt due?
If the EFL is suggesting that any claim by a football club or employee, which is unproven, should be classified as a football creditor it would create mayhem. And, bona fide football creditors with debts due, and other preferential and unsecured creditors would lose out as a result.
The EFL can't have this both ways. If they choose to say Article 48 does not qualify Boro's claim as a football creditor the EFL are suggesting they might be sued by Boro.
However, if they choose to say that Article 48 should be interpreted (which is a wild stretch) in a way that Boro should be classed as a football creditor then it is almost certain that the EFL would be sued by the Administrators and the creditors including genuine football creditors, and HMRC for their easily quantified losses. 
The EFL also risk being sued under section 994 of the companies act for acting prejudicially against the interests of a minority shareholder of the football league ie. DCFC.
We need to apply pressure on the EFL to get off the fence, see that their actions alone are preventing the Administrators from getting a deal agreed. 
Article 48 says that Boro's claim cannot be a football creditor and the EFL must state that and stop this nonesense.
"48         FOOTBALL CREDITORS
48.1      Where a Member Club defaults in making any payment due to any of the following persons, 
the Member  Club ('Defaulting  Club')  shall be subject to such penalty  as the Board may decide 
and subject also to Article 48.2:
48.1.1        The League, The FA Premier League and the Football Association;
48.1.2        any of the Pension Schemes;
48.1.3        any Member Club and any Club of The FA Premier League;
48.1.4        any holding company  of The League and any subsidiary  company  of that holding 
company;
48.1.5        any sums due to any full-time employee or former full-time employee of the Member 
Club by  way  of arrears  of remuneration  up to the date on which that contract  of employment is 
terminated. This excludes for these purposes all and any claims for redundancy,   unfair   or  
wrongful   dismissal   or  other   claims   arising   out   of  the termination  of  the  contract  
or  in  respect  of  any  period  after  the  actual  date  of termination;
48.1.6        any  sums  due  to  the  Professional  Footballers  Association  in  repayment  of  
an interest  free loan together with such reasonable  administration and legal costs as have been 
approved by the Board;
48.1.7        The Football Foundation;
48.1.8        The Football Conference Limited trading as "the National League";
48.1.9        The Northern Premier League Limited;
48.1.1O      The Isthmian League Limited;
48.1.11      The Southern League Limited;
48.1.12      Any member club of the League or organisations listed in Articles 48.1.8 to 48.1.11 
inclusive;
48.1.13      Any County Football Association affiliated to The Football Association; and
48.1.14      Any Leagues  affiliated to The Football Association  and any clubs affiliated to any 
County Football Association recognised by The Football Association.
48.2      Subject to the provisions of Articles 48.3 and 48.4, the Board shall apply any sums 
standing to the  credit  of  the  Pool  Account  which  would  otherwise  be  payable  to  a  
Defaulting  Club,  in discharging  the  creditors  in Article  48.1.  As  between  the Football  
Creditors,  the  priority  for payment shall be in accordance with the order in which those 
Football Creditors are listed in Article 48.1.
48.3      If,  having  discharged  all Football  Creditors  in  any  preceding  class  of  Football 
 Creditor  (as
· required by Article 48.2) the sum then available is not suffident to discharge in full the 
Football Creditors listed in Articles 48.1.1, 48.1.2 or 48.1.4 the Board will decide the 
allocation.
48.4      If,  having  discharged  all Football  Creditors  in  any  preceding  class  of  Football 
 Creditor  (as required by Article 48.2) the sum then available is not sufficient to discharge in 
full the Football Creditors listed in Article 48.1.3, 48.1.5, 48.1.12, 48.1.13 or 48.1.14 the sum 
will be allocated pro rata amongst the creditors of the same class.
Note - Clubs are reminded that any assignment of future entitlements from the pool account are 
subject to Article 45 and this must be brought to the attention of the other party. Furthermore 
assignments must be in legal form and registered with the office. Assignments are given priority 
according to the date and time of registration."

Currently talking with various members and fan groups privately to compile key points that can be pinned on the forum to be shared with the media and MP's.  

Do you know what, this just shows what fan power can do. 
We now don't stop until we have the resolution we want.

I can feel a good positive day coming along. 

If Gibson thought he would have a chance winning in “a court of Law” he would have started proceedings. He hasn’t. He just leaves the threat there to delay the admins.