IlsonDerby

Bird has been far superior today to Shinnie. Can’t understand the calls for Bird to be dragged off at half time. He’s tried moving the ball forwards. Some of it not good enough quality but I can’t remember Shinnie trying to pass forwards once today. 
 
Tell Max to stay central. Pull Shinnie wide to allow Forsyth to push forwards. Get Byrne overlapping Ebosele because he provides quality into the box rather than making him come inside. 
 
Tell Morrison to stay closer to CKR. 

This system is crushingly bad. I understand the idea behind pulling a CM into the left back spot to allow the left side forward to come inside and Forsyth/Buchanan to provide an outlet out wide but I just don’t understand doing it both sides. It creates congestion on the sides and loads of space in the middle that we have no one in. 
 
That’s the reason the ball is doing the old horse shoe around the back of our team today because there’s nothing in the middle. 

For your first point - name one chance we had in that whole half against a team who have conceded 7 in two. 
 
For the second point, it’s Rooneys bozeyed system that’s meaning the forwards are having to drop deep. Bird is in the vacated RB spot just as Rooney wants which means there’s no one central to provide an option. 

This system is crushingly bad. I understand the idea behind pulling a CM into the left back spot to allow the left side forward to come inside and Forsyth/Buchanan to provide an outlet out wide but I just don’t understand doing it both sides. It creates congestion on the sides and loads of space in the middle that we have no one in. 
 
That’s the reason the ball is doing the old horse shoe around the back of our team today because there’s nothing in the middle. 

For your first point - name one chance we had in that whole half against a team who have conceded 7 in two. 
 
For the second point, it’s Rooneys bozeyed system that’s meaning the forwards are having to drop deep. Bird is in the vacated RB spot just as Rooney wants which means there’s no one central to provide an option. 

Bird has been far superior today to Shinnie. Can’t understand the calls for Bird to be dragged off at half time. He’s tried moving the ball forwards. Some of it not good enough quality but I can’t remember Shinnie trying to pass forwards once today. 
 
Tell Max to stay central. Pull Shinnie wide to allow Forsyth to push forwards. Get Byrne overlapping Ebosele because he provides quality into the box rather than making him come inside. 
 
Tell Morrison to stay closer to CKR. 

We move shinnie and bird to the right back and left back position so we have no midfield whereas we might as well leave Forsyth and shinnie back there. When bird or shinnie get the ball there’s no pass inside apart from when Lawrence or Morrison come deep then they just give it back to the centre backs or over to ebosele as ckr has no one anyone anywhere near him to feed off him 

This system is crushingly bad. I understand the idea behind pulling a CM into the left back spot to allow the left side forward to come inside and Forsyth/Buchanan to provide an outlet out wide but I just don’t understand doing it both sides. It creates congestion on the sides and loads of space in the middle that we have no one in. 
 
That’s the reason the ball is doing the old horse shoe around the back of our team today because there’s nothing in the middle. 

This system is crushingly bad. I understand the idea behind pulling a CM into the left back spot to allow the left side forward to come inside and Forsyth/Buchanan to provide an outlet out wide but I just don’t understand doing it both sides. It creates congestion on the sides and loads of space in the middle that we have no one in. 
 
That’s the reason the ball is doing the old horse shoe around the back of our team today because there’s nothing in the middle. 

This is my only real feeling about what’s come out so far. Did Jim wheeler not take a notepad and so was only able to take away what he could write on the back of a fag packet? 

Set the bar now. Got to maintain that level of support through the good and bad. 
 
some n0b tried singing about Morris but people ignored him. 

He’s no fraud, he’s a lot of this, but not that.

Why can't this thread just praise Ebosele? Why does it have to double as a Jozwiak hate thread. Embarrassing. 

I mentioned that as a lot of posters said that the reason that the atmosphere was so good on Saturday was that given the low attendance this meant that only true hard core supporters were at the game....not sure if that was necessarily true or not as would have been interested to gauge the crowds reaction if we had started losing......

West stand full of absolute clowns groaning and whinging about everything. South stand sounding good again. 
 
seriously though these in west stand are woeful ‘supporters’. 
 
thought we’d give it a go here as a cup game but straight back to south stand for the next match. 

West stand full of absolute clowns groaning and whinging about everything. South stand sounding good again. 
 
seriously though these in west stand are woeful ‘supporters’. 
 
thought we’d give it a go here as a cup game but straight back to south stand for the next match. 

This is my only real feeling about what’s come out so far. Did Jim wheeler not take a notepad and so was only able to take away what he could write on the back of a fag packet? 

No issues with you at all David.
I have to say though, the official Rams Trust minutes seem pretty sparse for a 4-hour meeting.

I'll try and outline what I think @IlsonDerby is getting at with the comment on Shinnie's defensive abilities because this is something I've been thinking about for a while, especially when people suggest him as a holding midfielder.
Broadly speaking you can loosely split "defensive" midfielders into two camps; those that are energetic, aggresively press and are looking to frequently tackle (think Kante) and those that marshall space, rely on positioning and then step in when there is a good opportunity or they have to (think Alonso). One role is about pressuring the opponent and typically intiates the press and the other role is about screening the defence and typically backs up the press. I'll nominally call the first role the ball-winning midfielder and the second the holding midfielder.
Of course there is obviously an overlap between the two roles and the higher the level the more you find players who essentially have all the qualities to do either but the point I'm making is they are different and require different skillsets and mentality (almost the complete opposite here). Typically* you want the deepest midfielder in a 433 to be a holding midfielder because by doing that the rest of the team in front of them can both attack and press more freely because they have the reassurance that if they get out of position the holding midfielder is behind them shielding the defense. However if that holding midfielder can sucked into the play and out of position i.e. by going and looking to aggressively winning the ball back there is a cavernous gap of space in the centre of the park just in front of the defense which often leads to very dangerous situations. We've seen both of these cases before at Derby; Eustace marshalled the space and was a shield but wouldn't really go press where as someone like Mascerall, despite reasonable defensive stats, was derided defensively because he would go after the ball too liberally.
Setting aside his ability on the ball for a second, Shinnie is a ball winner who relys on his energy, his aggresion and going out to make tackles. Those are his strengths whereas his positional ability and his reading of the game is only (at best) ok. There has been a fair few cases where he has gotten himself out of position due to how he plays but thats ok because there is another holding midfielder which provides enough time for him to recover and get back. This wouldn't be the case as a holding midfielder and he'd need to remain far more positionally disciplined. One of the major downsides to this though is you actually negate a lot of the stronger elements his ability to press and his energy. Then if you bring his ability in possession, he just lacks the ability both techincally and positionally to adequately link the defence to midfield which is typically key for the role (despite Eustace often being cited as only being ok on the ball he actually did this side of the game to a decent, albeit simple standard).
Somewhat controversially the player who is most the suited to the role in the squad (outside of the obvious in Bielik) is Bird who tends to read the game well and has good positioning. I quietly suspect he would likely thrive more in that role than he does in a 2 
TLDR; Just because a player is a good tackler doesn't make them a holding midfielder. Placing Shinnie would expose a lot of his weaknesses and down play his strengths. 

Other than the penalty shout, I didn't see him get involved in the game. Fozzy and Shinne seemed to me,  to be doing most of the work down the left-hand side. But that's just my opinion.

Think this is harsh on Shinnie. Think he gets typecast as a Bryson but he’s much better technically on the ball. 
He sprayed a ball out first time under pressure on the half volley across the turf to Hutchinson and if Bielik had done it we’d be watching it on highlight reels. 
 
The fact is you can’t play Ahinnie there because he isn’t a holding midfielder. It’s not his passing ability it’s that vision you need to spot the danger before it happens whereas he spots it as it happens and often gets the job done. 

I won’t tell if you don’t 

Set the bar now. Got to maintain that level of support through the good and bad. 
 
some n0b tried singing about Morris but people ignored him. 

Set the bar now. Got to maintain that level of support through the good and bad. 
 
some n0b tried singing about Morris but people ignored him. 

Set the bar now. Got to maintain that level of support through the good and bad. 
 
some n0b tried singing about Morris but people ignored him.