Ghost of Clough

9 minutes ago, Kernow said:

2-3, somehow. Convinced I jinxed it. I also didn't realise that we currently have the best GD in the division so far, we don't seem to have blown many teams away this season.

Most away wins in the league too

Another soft yellow card. This time for Bird. Charlton have committed 3 or 4 fouls worse than that and got nothing

Surprised to see Barkhuizen come off

Wilson and Smith on for Ward and Hourihane to see the game out now. Unless Vickers is injured

Wigan down to 10 men but still 2-0 up vs Peterborough 

Ref gave Sibley just 2 seconds to throw the ball in following the Chalton sub. Ridiculous decision by the ref

Hourihane been in acres of space on the edge of the box a couple of times as we broke forward but the ball got stuck out wide

A clear pull on Bradley, which should have been a penalty 

Lovely dribble from Bird but should have done better with the shot.

Charlton looking good since the break. I think we need to swap Hourihane for Thompson to help us press more effectively.

2 hours ago, Carnero said:

@Ghost of Clough what would the approximate FIFA compensation have worked out at for Bird if he had gone to a Rangers or a Celtic, I think you might have told me before? Was it around £920k?

It's £90k per year between ages 12 and 21 for Cat 1 clubs.

14 minutes ago, IslandExile said:

If as some folks expect he'll be leaving at the end of the season, Warne is probably thinking "sod it, I'll do it my way".

So in this hypothetical scenario, was Warne deliberately using 4 at the back to get worse results than "his way", or does he know that 4 at the back is better than "his way" which is why we kept playing 4 at the back?

44 minutes ago, McMuffin said:

Is he available just Googled says he plays for Shanghai port? If he’s available what are we waiting for he’s only 30!

Released in January.

I'm surprised our Yorkshire scouts have missed Lys Mousset. Hasn't played much since leaving Sheff Utd in 2022 due to an achilles injury, but still only 27. Struggled in the PL, but scored 3 in 7 (320 mins) in the Championship. He would score for fun at this level. 

1 hour ago, richinspain said:

I agree with your first paragraph, but only when you're in the position Pep is in should your second paragraph apply. As I have quoted many times - King Arthur Cox, "I was looking for Ted McMinn's replacement 5 minutes after he signed for me"*
You should ALWAYS be looking to buy better than what you already have. What you have then becomes your reserve player (yes, I know, you also need to keep those now reserve players happy).

*contextual

I did laugh at "don't bring in players to replace your better ones, no point" when we finished 7th last season and 3 of most used 11 moved on in the summer.

9 hours ago, Rample said:

Too many initials in this thread who the hell is XYZ? 

Our midfield for next season: Xavi, Yaya, and Zidane

19 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Not too surpised by those moves. Jeffcott always seemed to be loan cover whilst Moloney adapts to U21 football and having barely played at U18 level over the previous 2 seasons due to injuries. He also mised the first couple months of this season. Gough will be stepping up full time next season (as well as covering LW), with Gill hoping to get some experience at that level too.

I expect the extensions for Oseni and Nunn are an indication of both being released at the end of the season. They'll be 21 and 22 respectively at the setart of next season and are nowhere near our first team.

Bartley, Bardell, Radcliffe, Bates, Gibson-Hammond, Nto and Weston are all 20 or over so should be looking at men's football soon. I wouldn't expect any to be in our first team squad next season, so all should be pushing for loans tbh. DRobinson too, in the hope he can mimic Thompsons trajectory since this time last season.

1 minute ago, Returning ram said:

Did Rotherham have a cat 1 academy to enable them to do this ?

Point is that you are saying PW doesnt like youth players, I'm saying that there are far and few managers that have the time and luxury to take gambles on unproven players. The academy is not the managers responsibility, certainly not after only a year in charge following it being ravaged just before his tenure.

Do you really think our fanbase would have been happy with promoting youth over success, if you do, I'd suggest your kidding yourself. Once again the remit of the manager is not that, even if a new one came on tomorrow I'd doubt they'd be going down that route either.

Says it all that our biggest success recently wasn't given much time at this club by either the vocal fans or the manager, I wonder if he had a loan move to find his feet without the massive pressure, then it may have been so different. 

Rotherham don't have a cat 1 academy but neither do Peterborough. Only 1 of those clubs conssitently recruits yougner players.

Warne had 6 years at Rotherham. How much time does a manager need to show they're willing to sign youngsters with potential?

Our academy wasn't "ravaged". There's only 6 players who would have been part of our U18 or U21 squads during Warne term as manager than have been poached. Only 1 of those would currently be deserving of a place in our first team squad. All others who moved on would have been first team squad members before Warne was appointed.

I haven't said the fansbase will be happy with choosing youth over promotion. I have however said we would be more understanding of the journey if youth were used should we fail to win promotion versus failing with older players on the decline.

The remit of the manager is to use all the tools at his disposal. The academy is a tool which should be used. We've had this same argument before, but I'll repeat it anyway. Part of a youngsters journey into men's football (particularly for L1 and Championship Cat 1 clubs) is by playing in their own club's first team prior to oing out on loan.

16 minutes ago, Returning ram said:

And young players don't guarantee that ? 
Seems strange that you use it as a stick to beat him with, yet our time under our previous chairman seems to be a similar theme ?
 

I get pboro have a good track record, but realistically how many good young players have we signed over the years that have gone onto better things, the only time you could argue when we had no alternative.

It may be utopia but it seems an unfair barometer that seems a more long term plan than someone who has been tasked of getting us out this league. 

I don't know what point you;re trying to make here. I was also critical of our signings in the past. I even gave an example earlier today when we had Forsyth, Malone, Olsson and Cole all contracted on permanent deals when we had Lowe on the fringes and Buchanan only 1 season away from his club debut. At one point we owned Evans, Johnson, Bryson, Butterfield, Holmes, Thorne, Ledley and Huddlestone (as well as loaning in Mount and King in) - we knew we had Bird, Knight and Sibley coming through, as well as Elsnik who was at least a level above them all at that moment in time.

The circustances were also different, particularly under Cocu and Rooney, when the number of players we could sign was limited - only 5 in 21/22, and had a wage limit roughly a third of what we can now spend, whilst balancing it against only 7 outfielders over the age of 23. It ddin't make sense to sign more players aroudn the 20 year mark when that wasn't what our squad needed. The other major factor during this period was the number of youths coming through which negated the need to sign young players from other clubs. This isn't something you can credit to Rotherham.

3 minutes ago, Returning ram said:

So the rationale was the chairman who wanted instant success ? Could that not have been applied at PWs time at Rotherham ? 

Potentially, if the Rotherham chairman classes instant relegation from the Championship as success.

This Saturday we'll be blessed by seeing [in Warne's own words] "the strongest bench in League 1 history". Sounds like everyone is fit apart from our trio of CFs (Wash, Wag and JJ)

3 minutes ago, Returning ram said:

Out of interest in the same period for Derby, how many have we had ?

If we exclude our U18/21 signings:

22/23:
19 yeo Rooney
19 yo Oduroh who was given limited game time by Rosenior, then binned off by Warne

21/22:
None signed

20/21:
22 yo winger - cost £4m, sold for £2m

19/20:
21 yo Bielik - cost £8m, sold for up to £1m

18/19:
None signed

17/18:
None signed

16/17:
None signed

Up until 2019, MM gambled on the experienced route. Some players such as Lawrence and Holmes just missed the age cut off. Whilst the plan was for any signigns aged 21 or youngesr to come throguh the U18/21/23 squads first - Hutchinson, Plange, Ebiowei (all excluded from my list)

14 minutes ago, Thameram said:

Etete Cardiff I reckon

Blackburn when waiting for McGuire to sign for them? Could have been Harry Leonard (who hasn't played much recently) or Niall Ennis who decided to join Stoke late yesterday.

10 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Apparently we can only sign players better than the ones other teams have recruited? An odd process. 😄 

Not just forwards, but this is the full list of January loans in League 1 (bold = players I think would have improved us).

GK: Louie Moulden, Jamie Cumming, Craig MacGillivray
CB: Caleb Taylor, Elkan Baggott, Sean Grehan, Andy Smith, Jack Shepherd, Elijah Campbell, Rhys Williams, Kacper Lopata, Zane Monlouis, Charlie Goode, Nigel Lonwijk
LB: Hayden Coulson, Nathanael Ogbeta, Tolaji Bola, Harry Boyes, Imari Samuels, Nesta Guinness-Walker, Luke Chambers, Saxon Earley
RB: Calvin Ramsay, James Gibbons
DM/CM/AM: George Byers, Brandon Aguilera, Harry Vaughan, Tyreeq Bakinson, Lewis Fiorini, Luke Harris, Ryan Woods, Gavin Kilkenny, Conor McGrandles, Jay Matete, Myles Peart-Harris, Jensen Weir, Dan Gore, Jack Hinchy, Chem Campbell
RW: Jonathan Leko, Michael Olakigbe
LW: Jack Diamond, Tony Springett, Alex Mighten
CF: Freddie Ladapo, Joe Hugill, Ola-Adebomi, Kyle Hudlin, Antwoine Hackford, Macauley Bonne, Joe Nuttall, Mo Eisa, Daniel Adu-Adjei, Khayon Edwards, Joe Taylor, Tyler Burey, Vadine Oliver, Charlie Kelman, Gideon Kodua
 

18 minutes ago, Animal is a Ram said:

There are other factors why we haven't seen as much of the youth.

I get the want to solely pin this on Warne, and his track record doesn't speak volumes to want to use them- leopard, spots, etc. - but it can be hard to shift that mindset when we've tasked him with finding near immediate league success.

A lot of the lads in the u21s were rushed from the u18s as a knock-on from the admin exodus, and have only had half a season at that level. Not only that, but there's been a lot of change in the academy hierarchy. That'll take it's time to settle.

We're still in rebuild mode as a club. Can only use that for so long, yes, but it doesn't exactly scream the most stable environment to safely develop these players - especially when the fans have the expectations that they do right now, can you imagine the reaction if Warne throws in a young player and doing so loses a game?

Which is understandable if they were being left out of the first team squads so they could play in the U21 games. However, more often than not they're left on the bench for when we go "3 or 4 up". Except the times we have been 3-0 up they've still been left on the bench. They also go unused in the cups.
DRobinson - 4 cup games on the bench and not used and left out completely for 3 cup squads. Left on the bench for Carlisle (2-0) and Barnsley (3-0).
DBrown - last minute sub in 1 cup game, 17 mins in another, but an unused sub in 5. Left on the bench when we were hoping to get more than a point against Lincoln (we only used 2 subs)

Fans are typically more patient when youngsters are put in the team. Warne could even use it as a reason why he needs more time. Stickign with his expereiecned players it's all or nothing -fail and he's sacked. If he introduced the likes of DRobinson and DBrown into the team he could point to that and say 1 more season and this squad will have improved and be enough to take us up.

1 minute ago, sage said:

After the unsuccessful signings, for various reasons, of TJJ, MW, CW, JW, SB and EE, has Clowes lost faith in our ability to spend money wisely?

The Bird transfer has obviously been in the process for weeks, yet no permanent signings lined up.

 

The process used for this season will need to be overhaulled. 12 summer signings and a further 2 in January, of which only 3 are likely to be regular starters is absolutely shocking (Nelson, Nyambe, Blackett-Taylor). This is also after the squad failed to place top last season, losing 3 of our first 11 (Roberts, Knight and McGoldrick) and not even having a right back in the entire squad.

It's summarised by having no long term vision. That's in terms of: a) bringing in younger players who will either maintain their current standards for longer, or have room for improvement; or b) planning how the players will fit into the team.

Warne put a clear focus on older and more experience players, based on the rationale of higher wages equates to better players. If more budget is put towards the wages, we'll end up with a stronger squad of players.
Warne also had no plan on how to fit the players into the team. This is demonstrated by early summer recruitment being with 3421 in mind, which quickly changed to 352, and then alternating between 442 and 4231 during the season so far. We signed a LB (Elder) to play as a wing back, but also signed Nyambe (RB) after already signing 2 wing backs. He also signed a slow CB who cannot play in a high line and is uncomfortable on the ball under pressure. We've basically got through from October with only 1 fully fit forward whowas 2nd choice last season and failed to improve on in the summer AND January.
The style of play our CF targets prefer also varied. Summer targets like Harris, Rhodes and Sharp all have different strengths and weaknesses. Similar with January targets such as Smith, Gregory, Mubama, Ennis. It's just a scattergun approach all round. Most of these targets compromise on the high intensity press Warne wants to implement too.

2 minutes ago, YorkshireRam said:

I still don't get judging Warne on youth though. It seems to me Warne was recruited as a promotion specialist, his transfer strategy at Rotherham worked in getting them promoted and sometimes keeping them there, so he's using the same methodology here. If he's prioritising promotion over youth progression then I'm not going to criticise his recruitment patterns if it ends up in achieving this goal- which it still may. If he doesn't achieve it though, I suspect I'll largely agree with your sentiment. So much hinges on promotion this season. 

Because it's part of his job. Why do you think Clowes is still spending millions to fund the academy? No one other than the manager can make the decision on playing our academy players or not. If they aren't gmaking the step up to the first team then Clowes is wasting millions every year.