curb

29 minutes ago, Charliegeorge1962 said:

I am still in Greece.....have we a new owner yet?

He’s the one that I want, ooh ooh ooh.

14 minutes ago, CBX1985 said:

 

Admins are forced to liquidate if that is the best outcome for the Creditors.  It won't be, as they will get more in a cheap sale.  EFL is a league.  People are acting as though their "rules" are "statute".  They are not.  If Creditors agree in a deal, they will accept that deal.  

EFL Rules: Made by them; changeable by them; internal policy, not law.

Statute and Common Law: The law of the land.  Fixed, or set by legal precedent.  

 

At some point the EFL will take away the league membership, the only thing at the moment that is making a sale viable.

Once they decide to do that, liquidation is inevitable.

It won’t be decided by the creditors or the administrators, it will be decided by the EFL.

Personally I think he got cold feet because of the hate mail he got after Ed Dawes big ‘announcement’.

Ive only a hunch to base it on though, we’ll probably never know.

1 hour ago, RoyMac5 said:

No, as @Sparklesaid, Q don't know if there is a work-around as it seems they've not asked.

Maybe Q should read the league rules then.

5 minutes ago, Sparkle said:

I have just read the administrators latest letter 

They basically said we are getting paid no matter what ( the administrators) 

They also stated that there are two categories of bids they will accept - ok - yet they also said there is a third category of bid which they have not engaged with the EFL about ( basically bids that don’t meet category one and two ) why not is my question - they have been here since September and they have not discussed all the options ! That’s ridiculous and the supporters should have that knowledge because it’s something that can be negotiated over with the EFL if that situation arises and there may be a bidder for that very situation. 
 

The fact that they have not explored all the options makes me very uneasy in regards to working to the conclusion.

Because if we don’t meet option 1 or 2 then we’re done.

9 hours ago, Dave Mackay Ate My Hamster said:

I'd be surprised if there's that much left in assets Gee Screamer. Not arguing with you. Players can't be forced to be sold. If we liquidate they're free agents, ergo any interested club won't have to pay a transfer fee. Their agents would factor in the absence of a transfer fee to bump up their remuneration package with any prospective new club. Surely?

They don’t become free agents, their registration passes to the EFL who will sell them to pay football debts. 

3 minutes ago, atherstoneram said:

It was probably arranged weeks ago before everything went belly up, Tom's not going to cancel because of that,they do have a private life.

…..and, TL isn’t going to play for us again, so who cares?

14 minutes ago, deanoakaram4life said:

Think you’ll find the majority of Rams fans want him! 

Don’t bet on it!

21 minutes ago, Oldben said:

Q need to move forward with the sale, today should have been the last deadline for ck.

Ck pays up by 5pm today, or Q dismisses him from being in the running to buy the club. Failure to provide funding.

We then move forward with MA.

Why is it so hard for Q to do this.

I know they've removed the preferred bidder status from ck, but in itself, that doesn't seem like it's enough.

1. There’s no point putting CK out of the running at this point, if he comes up with the goodies everything can be sorted pretty quickly.

2. Another bidder offering less would take far longer to renegotiate creditors. If that was to happen the EFL would pull the plug.

3. if Ashley wants the club then where’s his bid? As far as we know all he’s done so far is lurk in the shadows saying he’s ‘interested’.

2 minutes ago, kevinhectoring said:

This was @RadioactiveWaste’s list. McGuire conspicuous by his absence and Gibbo will be disappointed to only make 4th. Is ‘coughing’ covid or Couhig ? Both deserve a mention. 
I think Pearce has been making amends for being MM’s bag carrier - if he hadn’t done it he’d have been sacked and a n other would have obliged

Mr Ploppypratty will be disappointed he didn’t make the cut

6 hours ago, 1903 said:

Forgive me for barging in on your messageboard but I come in peace as a Bury fan. I have never posted on another club’s board before, this could be my first and last time. 
Firstly, the very best of luck. In cases like this it’s the fans, the innocents in all this, who suffer. We feel your pain, we too have been through the mill and beyond. 
Bury FC, the original club, were kicked out of L1 (having just won promotion) by the EFL in late August 2019,  about 3 weeks into the new season, our first half dozen fixtures were postponed so there was no record to expunge. The club was subsequently placed into administration. It remains in administration to this day but is effectively just a shell, awaiting ultimate liquidation with debts of over £12M. 
If scenario 1 above had happened we would have been reinstated at tier 6 in the pyramid. It didn’t, scenario 2 happened, and a “Phoenix” club called Bury AFC was formed by the fans and funded by the fans. It was admitted into tier 10 of the pyramid, the lowest level under FA auspices. Last season, the first full covid free season, it won promotion losing only one game. The highest home crowd was 1,885, not huge but enormous in a league where 100 or so is the norm. We ground share with Radcliffe AFC, another non league club within the borough of Bury. 
Bury AFC is not of course strictly speaking a Phoenix, but is referred to as such for ease of reference. It carries probably about 60pc of the original fan base. Not everyone has got on board but the majority have. The vibe is brilliant, partly as we are successful on the pitch of course, so never be afraid if this is your fate (it won’t be), you would still have a gas in “non league”, there are so many pluses compared to the EFL which make the match day experience highly enjoyable;  and with your fanbase you would quickly climb back up the pyramid. 

A highly unexpected turn of events happened more recently when a very small group of Bury fans emerged from nowhere with no mandate from anyone, but having apparently got strong connections with the Conservative Party. With the help of a wealthy businessman-fan now living in the USA, and with the financial help of the government which has provided up to £1M of matched funding (“levelling up”?), and the potential help of the (Labour) council, that group of fans (calling themselves Est 1885, the date of the founding of the original club) managed to buy the ground Gigg Lane, which had been subject to a charge for a loan of some £3.5M, and had fallen into a state of some disrepair. So Est 1885 have a ground but no football club, and Bury AFC are a football club with no ground (of their own). Talks are ongoing between the two with a view to a merger down the line. 

A word about the EFL. Yes as useless as a chocolate teapot but presumably facing the chop or severe reform following the government’s fan-led review. Remember the EFL is in essence the 72 clubs - it gets its power from the clubs, maybe it is useless because the clubs have only ever favoured light-touch regulation of themselves for obvious reasons, so have never given the EFL the powers it really needed to provide effective governance. 

So the very best of luck and whatever happens - there is no need to despair. 

Thanks for that, and hope it continues to go well for you.

I think we’re into the end game ourselves now, somethings got to happen in the next few weeks or we’re done.

The way I feel about league football now I personally wouldn’t mind a phoenix club, I go to a lot of non league games anyway, but I think it would be too much of a shock to a lot of our fans.

Good luck for next season, I’ll look out for your results.

1 minute ago, PistoldPete said:

Yes. So what are you saying?

No, try again ?

26 minutes ago, kevinhectoring said:

Well we don’t know their motivations. What is clear is that EFl has no confidence in Q’s ability to conduct an M&A process and that their intention is to get involved in that process with the aim of ensuring we are sold and ready to compete next season

I don’t know why fans would not support their involvement 

They’re not there to make decisions for Quantuma, they’re there to monitor the situation to find out if there’s a chance of us completing next season before the fixtures come out. The only decision they can make is to take away the league membership or not, and they want to be able to make an informed decision without all the contradicting noises that surround us at the moment.

9 hours ago, Carnero said:

I think you're confusing setting out a plan of how we're funding the season, with having all funds for the season ready in a bank account before the season even starts!

Name me a single club that has it's annual income sat in the bank account ready to go before the season starts?!

There are a couple of small details you’re missing, the stadium sale has to happen at the same time as a takeover, No takeover, no ground to play in.

Also we can’t sign players in Administration so would have 5 players to start the season, unless we sell them to fund the season, in which case we would have 0 players.

It really is in the hands of the EFL, and they will decide if and when they take away the league membership.

0 players playing in 0 stadium?

That’s not going to be very watchable.

Just now, alexxxxx said:

I don't think the EFL would pull the plug. Even if football creditors aren't paid back in full. The other clubs wouldn't get see a penny.

They have to, they won’t let us start the season if we can’t prove that we can fulfil our fixtures.

22 minutes ago, LeedsCityRam said:

Really torn on the EFL statement & whether this is a positive step.

The EFL are clearly not expecting Kirchner's money to land - that must be the first assumption here. The second point (and one that I agree with them on) is that Quantuma need external oversight on both their actions & communications between bidders & interested parties. Whilst we all acknowledge that Quantuma as an insolvency practitioner have to follow insolvency law, there have been a number of allegations levied at them from well connected journalists that they have not concluded sales earlier this season despite apparent agreements being reached. There are also unsubstantiated theories abound that Quantuma are prioritising admin fees over anything else, something that can not be proven given the opaque nature of all the discussions to date.

In summary, it is clear that there is a total lack of confidence in Quantuma & given the timescales, I do agree the EFL should be concerned at how long this could drag on. The problem then comes with the role of the EFL, an organisation so hopelessly tainted by their incompetence, agenda driven petulance & fact that they are easily manipulated by parties without DCFC's best interest at heart. That may or may not include one or more of the current bidders.

Two things do strike me though. Firstly, this is Quantuma's last ever gig in football administration - they're finished after this. Secondly, there will be a conclusion to this in the coming days & I do believe it will result in the club being sold. I do hope that any brinkmanship tactics the EFL employ (specifically around threats of expulsion) are kept private with Quantuma for the benefit of fans' mental health.

 

It’s not external oversight as such.

What they’re saying is that the want to know who bids what over the next few days so they can decide whether they pull the plug or not.

If someone bids enough to satisfy the current deals with the creditors they’ll let it play out.

If nobody bids enough to satisfy the current deals then they take away the league membership.

We’re in the end game, we’ll know in the next few days whether we can go on or whether it’s start again in non league.

1 hour ago, CBX1985 said:

Thank you.

The liquidator can sell the badge, but to whom.  Lg2 yes it will sell; div 14, no it won't.  There is no value in the name if not a football club in a recognised professional league.

I'm not a lawyer, so will not contend against the holding player argument - it is in black and white.  It doesn't sound very enforceable in the real world, however. 

Who would pay the ongoing salaries? The league?  Why would anyone bid, on expectation they'd be released after a matter of weeks?  The same situation with regards administration for the Club would move to the players.  Agents would recommend players did nothing as they would likely get more salary by waiting a matter of weeks and having no transfer fee.  If they are being paid, delay.    

Employment law would also supercede.   All Bury players were released with two weeks notice.

The liquidator doesn’t hold the badge and name, the league do, they would sell it to the highest bidder (Ashley?).

The value is still the customer base, a rebuilt club heading back up the leagues would pick up the fans left behind. Rangers have done it in recent times, they’ve kept the badge, history and support. The stadium is available and only useful to an owner if there is a football club to play in it. We would have a case for playing high up in the National League because of our facilities and support, a league in which there are already a number of professional clubs, Notts County, Chesterfield etc.

The league holds the player’s registrations, the few players we have left under contract would be instantly snapped up by clubs looking for a bargain. 
 

4 hours ago, CBX1985 said:

Hello everyone.  Nice to meet you all.  Found this forum a week or so ago, and in the circumstances have been reading frequently.

I do believe there is, perhaps understandably, a mismatch between business reality and fans wanting to "save our club".  Some of the business people involved also care deeply about football, and some this club; but business comes first and their backers are not going to want to "donate" monies beyond the relative value of the proposition.  

I work in financial services and investment.  I have previously worked at a global accountancy firm, where I for a while sat next to a company administrator - no, not Q - so have some familiarity with how these processes work in general terms. 

My analysis: is DCFC has VERY large debts.  DCFC has virtually no tangible assets.  Those we do have are players (if very few!).  On liquidation, unlike with other firms in most normal industries, those assets can leave for free on liquidation - so valueless to a liquidator.  We have considerable brand value (30k matchday attendees), all those here etc etc.  That brand value dies on liquidation, if EFL does not allow re-entry at L2.  Unlike with most businesses, the name cannot simply be sold as a way to pay creditors.

There is an old maxim: if I owe the bank £10,000, I have a problem; If I owe the bank a £1billion, the bank has a problem. That applies here.  On liquidation, the creditors get nothing.  Think about it, the players have no value and we don't own the ground.  We are left with paying £100m or whatever it is from old replica kits from the Superstore.

Ashley knows this, too.  As do all the buyers.  The reality is someone needs to be screwed here.  Liquidation screws everyone, but the admins need to extract as much as they can.  And so along strides a wonderful American who will generously pay a nice amount to said creditors for a L1 club.  No points deduction.  Keep Rooney.  40 new players.  He might as well throw Bale in to the mix as well, and consider putting a bit in for Messi.  It feels - not saying it is - a little too good to be true.  He is offering to be the one financially screwed for the greater good of everyone else.  And on cue the money doesn't turn up... makes you wonder.

What, in my opinion, this club has needed since January is to have the real crunch liquidation point - the club will liquidate on x date without x monies.  At the moment, creditors are thinking "I can get a 'good' deal from some naive mug" and are not considering the real haircut they are going to need to take to get some monies back, maybe 5 or 10p in the pound.  Once a potential vulture owner decides to accept the points deduction, why offer the creditors any less than a completely derisory offer (you get them to their lowest point before they refuse on principle)?  The points deduction will be the same.

This is Ashley's strategy (and probably everyone else bar CK).  He is planning to screw the creditors.  But this only works if you are prepared to hold out to the very very very last minute; and you can act fast to prevent the reapers axe actually coming down. 

The idea he will take CK's terms like-for-like is for the birds.      

 

 

 

 

  

 

 

 

Welcome to the forum.

There is one thing wrong with your post.

The EFL can sell the badge and name to someone after liquidation. They would hold the players registrations, which they will sell to other clubs on liquidation to pay off football debts.

This I believe is Ashley’s end game, to de-rail the administration process and pick up the pieces post liquidation.

The blame will all be on the administrators (he’s already started the propaganda process), and he’ll bypass having to pay HMRC and creditors anything. He’ll probably get tha stadium cheaper too, as no football team makes the stadium worthless.

I’m gonna drive past the ground in a bit and see if there’s a queue forming.

4 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

 

Is this another Ed Dawes fantasy?

13 minutes ago, Brailsford Ram said:

If you read what he said about his investment in crypto currency it was that he made a lot of money by investing early and then cashing in 90% of his holdings. The money he says he has transferred is coming in currency not bitcoins. The fact that Q have not yet removed his PB status could well be because their checks reveal that it has been held up by money laundering checks as has been indicated. The vast majority of such checks pass scrutiny as being legitimate. Very few fall into the threshold of criminality.

I have been following this for the past two days from my sunbed in Kos, checking in just three times a day instead of every ten minutes from home. I am very grateful for that. From afar I still maintain hope that very soon Chris Kirchner will become the owner of Derby County and if so Ed Dawes is banned for life from Pride Park. 
 

if not we are definitely in the s*** for next season.

These are my considered thoughts as I round off a long hot day with several coffees and Metaxas. If I am talking balls then I apologise.

COYR Kalinichta and Jamas 

 

 

Kalimari

3 hours ago, Topram said:

 No statement still is an absolute joke, the fact that Ashley is quite willingly going to make a deal and they are just ignoring him, someone high up doesn’t want him

There are a lot low down that don’t want him as well.

18 minutes ago, Dean (hick) Saunders said:

EFL publishing alternative fixture lists again soon? With alternative version promoting an extra team from L2 and None league?

That would open up another can of worms.

Do they promote the higher league position or the play off finalist?

2 minutes ago, RAM1966 said:

I also have it on good authority Applebys bid is still on the table, so  that isn't likely....

You know how long this taken, do you think another bidder can come in now and renegotiate all the different pieces, the creditors, HMRC, the stadium. There’s no way that would be done by Christmas let alone the start of the season.

If this deal falls through the EFL will call it a day.

So you’re actually calling for us to be liquidated, no wonder people are questioning whether you’re a Derby fan.

11 minutes ago, RAM1966 said:

So that means us perceived wrist slashers were right to be concerned then.  This is going to collapse, Kirchner is far too quite....

 

Time to stop jerking around and get Ashley or Appleby in!

So liquidation then.