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Dethorn

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    Captain Tom Lawrence

    in Derby County Forum

    Posted

    4 hours ago, teddyb16 said:

    This is definitely Rooney using a bit if his Sir Alex experience. The decision you would hope was discussed by the coaching staff.

    Sir Alex made Cantona captain after his ban for the Kung Fu kick and after he had asked for his contract to be terminated. He lead them to the title.

    John Toshack named Craig Bellamy the Wales captain ahead of Giggs. Gareth Bale captains Wales despite having zero interest in playing for Real and they got to a semi final.

    I am not saying Lawrence is in this mould of player but divisive players who split opinion have captained sides throughout history, some with great success.

    Paulo diCanio, Duncan Ferguson, Jack Grealish 

    Rooney et al work with him daily and they know the club has stood by him

     

    Good luck Tom

    Not sure but I do not think any of those three are divisive?

    In fact almost the opposite, were they not heroes of almost all the fanbase ?

    Training Photos

    in Derby County Forum

    Posted

    3 hours ago, Duracell said:

    I remember when I was 15, I convinced my mate from Market Harborough to get the train up with me from Kettering to watch Nigel Clough's Derby train at Loughborough.

    Took me 90 mins to get there. Watched the squad run around for a bout 10 mins, then Robbie Savage gave me a look which said "wtf are you doing here?" and in that moment, I thought "I genuinely don't know what I'm doing with my life" and I went home.

    From that moment on, I vowed never to spend my pocket money on watching Conor Doyle and Saul Deeney run around a university campus ever again.

    That could be a lot worse though - you could be the mate who got talked into it...

    Enjoy the good times.

    in Derby County Forum

    Posted

    Old enough to have lived through all the good times

    Not old enough to remember them

    My first football memory was losing to Manu in the FA Cup Semi

    And I do believe despite the odd blip it has been down hill since then ?

    Maybe I am the Jinx!!!!!

    Oh Football

    in Football Forum

    Posted

    What on earth has happened

    I remember jumpers for goalposts, pretending to be Charlie George.

    Southampton winning the cup.

    Archie Gemmill scoring that goal and I am not even scottish...

    England dominating European Club football, and Arsenal 3-2 Man U in the cup final.

    Then the imports start to arrive - how glamourous Villa and Ardilies and another great Cup Final.

    The 80's belonged to Merseyside that 3-2 cup final, but who can forget Coventry City.

    Italia 90 and Gazza is a hero taking people on- that Semi should have been the final and I think we were the better team.

    But since then things have slowly gone wrong

    More money in the game, more media, Graham Taylor, more money, and not just the cream of the imports now but hundreds,

    A brief respite in 96 when football so nearly came home, even that was followed by Venables and some financial dealings.

    To be honest the 21st century football is flying by for me

    As money increases, foreigners increase, we laugh at Klinsman mocking the dive, who knew diving would become an integral skill of football, more money, more diving, now we feign injuries.

    The trainers are on with a case now not a bucket and a magic sponge, players hobble off and are beckoned on two seconds later having undergone a medical recovery which makes me reconsider my aetheism.

    5-7 subs pandering to the clus with money money money

    But things go from bad to worse, and then VAR arrives and unlike Rugby, Tennis and Cricket which has defined its use and taken advantage of it - football has managed to let it corrupt the game even more.

    I think the cup final should have disallowed both goals or allowed both in the interests of consistency, but to allow one and not the other ??

    And even in this tournament which is on the whole been good, 3 VARS in two days review and award Czech a penalty, wrong wrong. Does not even review Sterling being technically fouled in the area wrong wrong and then does review a rugby tackle in the penalty area but fails to give the penalty  - How?

    On a positive note Christian Eriksen continues to recover but this only sickens me more when I see feigning of injury.

    Now we have a player/manager on £90k a week more money - who might leave if we get relegated by an incompetent organisation despite being a very large part of the abject failure both on and off the pitch. Because we failed to account properly for a made up measure to ensure that clubs are protected from being owned by cowboys and yet Bury go bust and cowboys get in the game

    Yet due to money we could be relegated and lose our manager

    Red tape, jobs worth, money money money ruining the game

    and possible saviour VAR making it all worse

    I would change 4 things

    1) VAR is asked for by the Ref

    2) Every dive is booked - even retrospectively

    3) A player is waved back on the pitch after 90 seconds

    4) scrap FFP or P&S all that is being achieved is clubs in no danger of being bankrupt are stopped from spending meaning less income for lower clubs - if there is any requirement it should be that an account is set up to cover liquid creditors and if that is done by a financial injection by the owner more fool them.

    If we are relegated to league 1 on a technicality I wish I could be big enough to walk away

    but I won't I will just watch from a slightly greater distance than I already do, I will watch more rugby and Motor Racing  than football, I have already taken my grandson to more rugby than football, no way would I have thought that in the 80's and 90's

     

    Will they ever learn, Thanks for listening

    A sad fan

     

    Women’s football

    in Football Forum

    Posted

    On 26/05/2021 at 13:53, roboto said:

    My wife has given up asking me to change the channel if there's sport on TV ?

    UFC is on prime time on ESPN in the US, think it's also been on ABC and Fox too which have sports channels, but they had shows on the main channels too. Plus UFC has Fight Pass as a worldwide subscription app. The way that they have gone about their media presence is impressive.

    BBC do have a dedicated Sports channel "BBC Sport" it's on the red button or on apps on Smart TVs and viewable via the BBC website. It has lots of different sports coverage and some live stuff too every now and again. However, as an old industry heavyweight, many of the BBC viewers still just watch BBC 1 and 2 and won't realise there's a lot more out there through things like iPlayer and BBC Sounds.

    If Sky were serious about supporting women's football they would bid for it and win. The fact that BBC and BT have the WSL rights means that Sky aren't really getting behind the women's game like they have with other sports.

    I reckon as we go on, more apps will take over the regular channel based businesses and those sports savvy enough to embrace the latest media will benefit greatly from it.

    You do have a full schedule of viewing. I am similar but swap the rugby for cycling (which is literally hours!!!) and I like to stick on random sports channels if there's nothing else on the TV.

    I love the cycling at the olympics but cannot get behind the tour de france and things that go on for days and days

    I love the tactics in the I guess about 100 mile race takes several hours and remember in particular the women who crashed in Rio 2016 - I thought she might have been dead - good to learn whe was back up and running (cycling) in a couple of weeks.

    Women’s football

    in Football Forum

    Posted

    19 minutes ago, roboto said:

    Ok, so it’s hard to judge MMA/boxing demand against football demand.

    Women’s MMA and boxing was put on the same card as men’s events so the crowd was there and therefore the women’s matches were put in front of those who might not have paid to watch an all women’s event. This has helped increase the popularity and demand for more women’s matches in UFC etc.

    Its not really possible to put on 2 football matches simultaneously in front of the same crowd (due to the length of a match etc.) therefore the best way to increase visibility is for more coverage on TV and in the media. The sports need a different approach, but we need to learn from sports that have successfully integrated women’s sports.

    To counter the league 1/2 level attendances. How many people visit youth/reserve games? Yet the top level youth players will earn more than a professional WSL player who plays in front of larger crowds.

    Its an important and healthy discussion and I hope some of these posts from both sides helps people in the sport understand how they can do better to build the women’s side of the game.

    good point on the creation of demand within UFC, by having women and men on the same card in the first place.

    and MMA demand versus football demand is hard to judge - certainly if it is 2am on Sunday morning I definitely favour UFC over MLS

    There is a whole other argument along side this though and that is the channels

    My wife seems to blame me if sport is on BBC and ITV and moving 'her' programs lol

    So BT using UFC as a bit of a flagship at 2am on a Sunday - versus BBC cancelling Antiques Roadshow for an FA Cup game - male or female - is a major dilution of my economics argument.

    Maybe BBC should have a dedicated sport channel or give up on sport, leave it to SKY and BT

    maybe one of SKY's many sports channels should be a womens football channel 

    meaning freedom of choice for all

    dunno just mulling it over

    My own schedule is I watch

    Derby and England FC

    Gloucester and England RFU (plus any other RFU game)

    UFC

    F1 qualifying/full race/ Teds notebook

    So guess I am a bit annoyed that there is no room in my schedule for me to watch anything else ?

    Women’s football

    in Football Forum

    Posted

    6 minutes ago, roboto said:

    That sounds like a “not all men” or “all lives matter” kind of view. I’m willing to read and listen and understand your viewpoint, but how do you decide what is there on merit?

    Are women boxers or MMA fighters on equal billing because they work harder than female footballers or cyclists? No, all top professionals work hard to be the best they can be, it’s the authorities that control the sport (FIFA, UCI in cycling, the FA for WSL) that haven’t done enough to support women participating in that sport.

     

    For merit - I think demand

    If the demand is there for it to be watched then the programmes should be scheduled as per the other post quoting attendances around the league 1/2 level then I would say equal coverage between those two things.

    In my opinion the UFC/MMA has achieved what it has because it is very entertaining and has created its own demand

     

    Women’s football

    in Football Forum

    Posted

    4 minutes ago, TheresOnlyWanChope said:

    If anyone is in doubt about the growing popularity of the women’s game, over 40,000 watched the women’s FA cup final in 2019, the super league averaged around fans a match 4,000 in the pre covid season, which is just about on par with league 2. In fact, Tottenham who had the highest average attendance had a higher average than around half of men’s league 1 clubs. To dismiss the women’s game as a very minor sport undeserving of any more than a snippet of coverage is just plain ignorance. 

    So same amount of coverage as league 1 or 2 should do

    Women’s football

    in Football Forum

    Posted

    2 hours ago, roboto said:

    Some of the comments in here are the exact reasons why Women's sport needs to be pushed more into the public eye and celebrated.

    The women who take part in these sports (not just football) are athletes who train just as hard as the men (probably harder) just to get noticed. And the real kicker is, they won't earn anywhere near as much money, attention or respect as male counterparts who might not be as skilful or work as hard due to the way that sport is historically seen as a male pursuit.

    Those that are saying they don't like to see the women's results near the top of the BBC page, why? Can't you scroll down to the content you want easily enough? The BBC has been investing more in the WSL and of course will put stories concerning that league near the top so it can create an engaged audience and improve it's coverage and programming around it.

    Those that are saying that women shouldn't play "men's" sports, why? We're all humans that may or may not enjoy being physically active or being engaged in a team of peers with a love for a certain sport. Your gender shouldn't be a reason you can't do something. Why can't women play sports? Do you see them as inferior to men in other aspects of life? It beggars belief that people can hold this point of view in this day and age.

     

    I'm sure I can go on and pick out more awful things already written in this thread - sexism, discussing women footballers based on their attractiveness, women encroaching on the men's game... but I haven't got the time or patience to debunk it all.

    Let me sign off my thoughts on this with a recent example in MMA. Dana White famously said years ago that women would never fight in the UFC, he thought that MMA was a male only sport and no place for women. Then some other organisations opened up allowing women to fight, and then Ronda Rousey happened. She came to the UFC and became one of the most popular (male or female) fighters around. She was the box office main eventer. Dana White changed his views on Women's MMA after that and they have equal billing in UFC now and there are various women's headliners throughout the year at no detriment to the sport. In fact the sport is better for their inclusion. Last year, the best fight was between 2 women (Joanna Jedrzejczyk vs Weili Zhang). The women train hard, hone their craft and want to win as much as the men do and have created more equality with their hard work, but also with the organisation of their sport respecting them and providing the platform. Football can learn a lot from this. Dana was wrong, he's admitted it and now the sport has benefitted from inclusion.

    This post is very good and it also supports my views which are different and are more in line with some of the earlier posts.

    Your MMA/UFC example is a really good case in point for my argument.

    My argument is if something is there on merit.

    I believe in Economics, if the demand is there then supply it. There is no doubt the male and female contests on UFC are equally exciting - and I watched that particulary fight it was unbeliveable and Ronda is up there on a mixed gender world list for pound for pound fighters. 

    What I find slightly annoying is BBC and SKY pushing the supply trying to create the demand. 

    The other thing I find annoying is that I get Fooled by SKY News so often - when the ticker along the bottom say Arsenal beat Chelsea 4-0, and I think I thought Chelsea were playing ...... today - next tidbit - Goals from Sarah, Jessica, Claire and Laura

    And I am like aha fooled again.

     

    As for the punditry - I am sure the BBC insist on having a female on for most games, but i did see some womens football the other day and there were no male pundits

    I am all for equality with a capital equal

     

    Yankee Doodle Derby

    in Derby County Forum

    Posted

    3 minutes ago, 86 Hair Islands said:

    You mean as opposed to Mansour buying City or Abramovic buying Chelsea. Neither were exactly behemoths prior to their current owners taking over, were they?

    Now the flip-side; Liverpool were priced at >£2 billion when last under offer and at that price, there's no great potential for ROI, least none that I can see. The only way is down. Would Tepper buy a club as a plaything, o do you suppose he might want to build the club and secure a return on investment?

    Let's take emotion out of the equation for a moment; in the good times; we can sell over 30,000 tickets for games. Derby is effectively a one club City; we are a founder member of the football league who have twice topped the pile; we have a large and loyal fan-base and a comparatively rich footballing history.

    Furthermore, I'd venture it is the very fact that we are in such a mess that makes us an attractive proposition. I struggle with the fact that so many fans are unable to grasp the notion that you buy stock when it's cheap, not when it's already peaked. Why one shitty season, when we've been challenging for promotion for nigh on 10 years now, is being taken as the only viable metric.

    We know there are multiple bidders currently and this without the EFL charges being put to bed. Surely there's a clue there for those who choose to see it? I've very little doubt that a consortium that brings the financial wherewithal of Tepper and the commercial skills and experience of a man like Glick, would be able to steady the ship and put us on back on a road we were already treading until 18 months ago without too much bother. 

    Great post - in fact to emphasise one of your points the bad season may bring the price down and make it more attractive. And to add another point, a global name like Wayne Rooney probably helps too.

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