Vs Middlesbrough (H) Match Thread

[MadAmster]

31 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

The damage during admin is always overdtated. During admin, only Williams (already in the first team), Ryan, Eze (potentially homesick), and Kellyman left us. Plange as well if you want to be picky, but he was in the first team when we sold him anyway.

Festy, Ebiowei, and Buchanan (all first team regulars) left us at the expiry ig their contracts as a result of us not being able to tie them down to longer contracts during admin.

Given all but two of those players would have been in our first team or sold on if we didn't go into admin, and the trajectory of the other two players, I see no net difference to our U21 squad at this point in time.

There was a short term gap in the U21s due to so many being fast tracked to the first team (Ebiowei, Plange, Cashin, LThompson, Williams), and a couple of other may have been retained to plug a gap (McDonald, Wilson). However, the life of a U21 player should be a maximum of 2 years (IMO) - therefore covering the admin season and first season in L1. Which goes back to my previous point - there is now no net difference to our U21 squad.

22/23 the 21s had an appalling season due to almost all of the 21s having become too old or been sold or simply let go because they weren't considered good enough or we couldn't offer them a new contract. The 21s in that season, IIRC, were almost all U18s and the 18s had a plethora of younger players. 23/24 the 18s had a good season and the 21s less so but more slightly better than in 22/23.

Over the weekend our U18s beat Liverpool 5-1. Hopefully the 21s have a good season too.

[Ghost of Clough]

8 minutes ago, Birdyabroad said:

Interesting, but you are forgetting a major point. During this time we wasn’t in a position to bring in players to the academy, certainly ‘top tier’ youth players that wouldn’t have come to a team in admin, with uncertainty over the future of the academy.

You are only referring to the players that we had in the books, what about the players we would have missed out on?

You could, quite rightly, argue that this is an ‘unknown, unknown’, but look at the youth players we have attracted to the academy this year, I.e., the two youth international Irish lads and the player from Celtic’s academy.

I think the effect that administration has on the U21’s and U18’s is not overstated and that we are in a rebuild, hopefully a promising one.

That's true, in that we couldnt sign players on pro deals for our U21s. We had Al-Hamadi on trial days before we went into administration. He scored in his only game for us, and then we couldn't sign him (even if we were going to). However, his career path suggests he would have already progressed into our first team or moved on. Bear in mind the 2 year 'rule' I previously mentioned. Anyone we would have signed for our U21s during 21/22, should have progressed through the U21 squad by this summer (first team, loaned out, or released).

Admin didn't stop us signing youth players, as evidenced by us poaching Wheeldon and Gough from Notts County

[RoyMac5]

34 minutes ago, Mick Brolly said:

Come on Roy I’ve asked you a genuine question at the moment you’re just making me think you’re just a moaning wum 

No, you're just treating my comments like that because you disagree with them.

I suggested that Warne was lucky like Lampard was as he didn't set us up to 'park the bus'. When the injuries happened he ended up with a more defensive set up. Why not start Nyambe?

[Ghost of Clough]

1 minute ago, MadAmster said:

22/23 the 21s had an appalling season due to almost all of the 21s having become too old or been sold or simply let go because they weren't considered good enough or we couldn't offer them a new contract. The 21s in that season, IIRC, were almost all U18s and the 18s had a plethora of younger players. 23/24 the 18s had a good season and the 21s less so but more slightly better than in 22/23.

Over the weekend our U18s beat Liverpool 5-1. Hopefully the 21s have a good season too.

"there is now no net difference to our U21 squad." The performance of the U21s over the past 2 years has no bearing on that comment.

The big dip in the U21 results coincides with a low number of players from two consecutive youth intakes looking likely to make it as pro footballers. Delap had moved on at the end of his U16 season. That leaves just Bardell, Cybulski, and Williams as the only ones likely to male it out of 20. Only one of those will get significant EFL football this season. Whilst one will be a regular in an U21 side and the other playing in NLN. The two older age groups have 11 already playing at a decent level (first team players at L1 clubs or higher).

The U18s also beat Liverpool 5-1 last season, 5-2 the season before (the year after admin), and 3-1 during the admin season. They also beat Leeds 5-1 at the peak of our admin issues (Jan 2022)

[Mick Brolly]

1 minute ago, RoyMac5 said:

No, you're just treating my comments like that because you disagree with them.

I suggested that Warne was lucky like Lampard was as he didn't set us up to 'park the bus'. When the injuries happened he ended up with a more defensive set up. Why not start Nyambe?

I think starting Nyambe would have been a more defensive option and warne may have been looking for a bit more attacking threat but the injury forced a change to this.

[RoyMac5]

2 minutes ago, Mick Brolly said:

I think starting Nyambe would have been a more defensive option and warne may have been looking for a bit more attacking threat but the injury forced a change to this.

A more defensive option was needed wasn't it? I'd have started Nyambe. 

It's 3 points and we're going to need them and more. #COYR

Edited August 19 by RoyMac5

[On the Ram Page]

Previously posted on another thread in error.

 

A few random thoughts from Saturday, having been at Pride Park on Saturday and having rewatched the game on RamsTV.

Always exciting attending the first match of the season at PP and I don't think we could have been given harder opposition. Having watched them demolish Leeds in the Cup during the week, I would have bitten your hand off for a point before the game. Their counter-attacking was something to behold on Wednesday.

Thought we started pretty well and had some good movement, without really troubling Borough. Borough started to get into the game and find a few pockets. Then we scored, Jackson taking his goal superbly - how often do we actually score one on one's? Not often.

Then the injuries - Cash was a blow (to him too!) and not many in the ground would have fancied Sonny Bradley against the Boro pace. Nyambi (who I personally would have started with), I thought would strengthen our defence.

They constantly caused us problems, which I expected, but I was delighted with the way we came up with the solutions, plugging gaps which had previously appeared. Sure we had some luck too - but we surely deserved that.

Everyone ran their socks off too. No slackers in view.

I think last year's midfield would have floundered. This year we have legs and more mobility. Kenzo, although he didn't see much of the ball, used it well when he had the opportunity and kept hustling the opposition. Ozoh, started nervously (not surprising for his age and inexperience) but gradually gained confidence and became a real presence in midfield. Osborn never stopped running, harassing and guiding others.

The defence were magnificent to a man. Vickers, apart from a couple of moments, was faultless. Nyambe and Nelson, their usual selves (i.e. superb) and Bradley and Elder probably had their best games for the Club. NML didn't have his best game but still worked very hard and Jackson never stopped running. Collins got a bad press from many on here over the weekend but I think he did some great work defensively.

Yes, Boro were the better and more confident side, after their start to the season and our unfortunate start at Blackburn.

The referee (not anybody's favourite) actually (watching RamsTV) got most of the decisions correct (apart from a few right at the end). He had a pretty good match actually.

Style went out of the window for this match, it was important we got something out of it for our confidence. Although I would prefer to see us attacking for 70% of the game , there was something so satisfying at keeping Boro at bay. Edge of the seat stuff at times - but so pleasing too.

Paul Warne gets a bad press at times for his recruitment. If ever there was advertisement for why you select "team players" - this was it. 100% commitment to the cause and each other!

As usual, there are some supporters calling for Warne's head because of our defensive display. I, for one, am even more behind the team after this performance, although I do want to see more attacking prowess in the future. I think he got his subs. spot on too.

Two more very difficult games to follow but I feel more confident after this game.

Well done, all.

[Mick Brolly]

1 minute ago, RoyMac5 said:

A more defensive option was needed wasn't it?

Yes i agree i would have started Nyambe or we could have ended up in the same situation as the Blackburn match 

[MadAmster]

10 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

"there is now no net difference to our U21 squad." The performance of the U21s over the past 2 years has no bearing on that comment.

 

Today's U21 squad, agreed.

2022/2023  Played 20 Won 0 Drawn 1 Lost 19   Finished bottom

2023/2024  Played 20 Won 5 Drew 1 Lost 14  Finished bottom

21/22 was also not the best of seasons but before that they had several good seasons

 

U18s 23/24 finished 4th

          22/23 finished 7th

          21/22  finished 12th of 14  

           20/21 finished 7th

Edited August 19 by MadAmster

[Foreveram]

58 minutes ago, Alty_Ram said:

We will obviously see things very differently but though I disagree with your assessment, you have at least tried to engage on this very touchy subject, so I am going to give you the benefit of the doubt to try and help you understand our perspective.

When you are on the sharp end of near oblivion as a club, the fans will feel everything very keenly so you will appreciate that this one is still very raw. We are completely aware of the role Morris played and his reign at the club was ultimately an utter disaster, regardless of what good intentions he may have had at the outset.

I can't say either way what Gibson's specific intent was but it appeared utterly spiteful. From a Derby fans perspective he seemed so consumed with his feud with Morris that he was seemingly happy to see us cease to exist while he tried to 'teach a lesson' to someone who had already abandoned ship and left us to the circling sharks.

The club was saddled with massive unsustainable debt and lets be quiet clear, fans at this end know exactly where to point the finger of blame for that. Morris' tenure at the club was ultimately an utter disaster and he threw us under a bus with administration.

The source of much of the resentment re Gibson was that his feud with Morris seemed to only further endanger our club and its chances of survival at a time when Morris had said "See ya, I'm off, sort it it our yourselves". The term 'Survival' is not overstating the case - we were dead in the water and nobody wanted to buy a club worth nothing for the sort of money required to save it. Last orders had rung, the fat lady had already sung, the gangplank was almost up and the ship was ready to sail, the cupboard was bare, the administrators were switching the lights off and nobody credible was stepping forward to save the club. Even the chancers and charlatans had disappeared despite the EFL waving them all through.

The fact remains that we were as close to oblivion as any club who has ever survived such a spectacular financial meltdown, has ever found itself. Thanks to Morris, the club had massive crippling debt of course, but also a perfect storm of zero assets due to Morris' shenanigans with taking the stadium away from the club  and an academy that had been plundered of any assets of value and a first team that we could not offer any contract to to provide even a nominal residual value to give saleable assets to set against debt when vultures came to pick the carcass clean of the final few scraps.

As the drowning form of DCFC, flailed away trying to get to the harbour wall, Gibson and Couhig made an already unviable deal even less attractive but keeping this threat of some highly debatable but considerable imagined debt owed to their clubs and in effect wanted to charge any concerned good citizen who wanted to save the drowning man millions of pounds just to use the life ring. Everyone just walked on by and DCFC slipped beneath the waves.

We were only saved by a local hero who at the 11th hour just refused to let the club die and payed frankly absurd money for something that was worth nothing. None of us will ever know what deals were done behind closed doors with Gibson, Couhig, Morris and others but other clubs chairmen were conscious, deliberate players in holding a dying club to ransom when the villain of the peace had already walked away and left others to clean up the carnage.

Football is an emotional business and I'd expect that you'd also resent a 3rd party who appeared to be an active and enthusiastic participant in massively complicating a rescue of your club if god forbid you ever find yourselves in similar circumstance. I know that you lot have been on the brink before and I think the short memories and gloating from some of your fans was what was so disappointing.

The fact that they went through a similar situation with our ex player Bruce Rioch as manager, having the gates closed at Ayresome park and having to play at Hartlepool, you would think there would be some empathy, but no, classless just like Birmingham fans.

[RoyMac5]

 

[Bessie1]

LUCK - noun: “success or failure brought by chance rather than through one’s own actions.”

On that basic, I’d say the luck we had was “bad” when we lost 2 defenders through injury within 30 minutes.  Did we have any good luck?  Using the definition above, I’d say no - we won the game through our own endeavour.

[Reggie Greenwood]

1 hour ago, DE56Ram said:

I’m fairly new here even if I’ve been supporting my Rams passionately for 54 years 💪🏼🐏

how do I put the negative non-supporters on ignore? 

Go on the account section. There you will see ignored users. You can type in any names you wish to ignore there 

[Big Bad Bob]

13 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

 

Jeez, was that really Matt Clarke? I was there and I thought it was Tyson Fury 😆

[KBB]

5 minutes ago, Reggie Greenwood said:

Go on the account section. There you will see ignored users. You can type in any names you wish to ignore there 

Not sure what Reggie has said as got him on ignore but if you go on the account section. There you will see ignored users. You can type in any names you wish to ignore there.

😉

[DavesaRam]

2 hours ago, Alan Ramage 4 EVA said:

And if Charlie George hadn`t dislocated his shoulder ,we`d have won the double 

Yes but that was unfortunate rather than poor, bad or biased refereeing.

[MACKWORTHRAM]

1 hour ago, Alty_Ram said:

We will obviously see things very differently but though I disagree with your assessment, you have at least tried to engage on this very touchy subject, so I am going to give you the benefit of the doubt to try and help you understand our perspective.

When you are on the sharp end of near oblivion as a club, the fans will feel everything very keenly so you will appreciate that this one is still very raw. We are completely aware of the role Morris played and his reign at the club was ultimately an utter disaster, regardless of what good intentions he may have had at the outset.

I can't say either way what Gibson's specific intent was but it appeared utterly spiteful. From a Derby fans perspective he seemed so consumed with his feud with Morris that he was seemingly happy to see us cease to exist while he tried to 'teach a lesson' to someone who had already abandoned ship and left us to the circling sharks.

The club was saddled with massive unsustainable debt and lets be quiet clear, fans at this end know exactly where to point the finger of blame for that. Morris' tenure at the club was ultimately an utter disaster and he threw us under a bus with administration.

The source of much of the resentment re Gibson was that his feud with Morris seemed to only further endanger our club and its chances of survival at a time when Morris had said "See ya, I'm off, sort it it our yourselves". The term 'Survival' is not overstating the case - we were dead in the water and nobody wanted to buy a club worth nothing for the sort of money required to save it. Last orders had rung, the fat lady had already sung, the gangplank was almost up and the ship was ready to sail, the cupboard was bare, the administrators were switching the lights off and nobody credible was stepping forward to save the club. Even the chancers and charlatans had disappeared despite the EFL waving them all through.

The fact remains that we were as close to oblivion as any club who has ever survived such a spectacular financial meltdown, has ever found itself. Thanks to Morris, the club had massive crippling debt of course, but also a perfect storm of zero assets due to Morris' shenanigans with taking the stadium away from the club  and an academy that had been plundered of any assets of value and a first team that we could not offer any contract to to provide even a nominal residual value to give saleable assets to set against debt when vultures came to pick the carcass clean of the final few scraps.

As the drowning form of DCFC, flailed away trying to get to the harbour wall, Gibson and Couhig made an already unviable deal even less attractive but keeping this threat of some highly debatable but considerable imagined debt owed to their clubs and in effect wanted to charge any concerned good citizen who wanted to save the drowning man millions of pounds just to use the life ring. Everyone just walked on by and DCFC slipped beneath the waves.

We were only saved by a local hero who at the 11th hour just refused to let the club die and payed frankly absurd money for something that was worth nothing. None of us will ever know what deals were done behind closed doors with Gibson, Couhig, Morris and others but other clubs chairmen were conscious, deliberate players in holding a dying club to ransom when the villain of the peace had already walked away and left others to clean up the carnage.

Football is an emotional business and I'd expect that you'd also resent a 3rd party who appeared to be an active and enthusiastic participant in massively complicating a rescue of your club if god forbid you ever find yourselves in similar circumstance. I know that you lot have been on the brink before and I think the short memories and gloating from some of your fans was what was so disappointing.

Brilliant post.

Genuinely staggered when I saw Ghost Of Clough say that the damage done during admin was "overstated"

We were about 5 days from going out of business and we had nothing left. But apparently this is overstated.

I was going to reply directly, but you have said it better than I ever could.

[Birdyabroad]

1 hour ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Admin didn't stop us signing youth players, as evidenced by us poaching Wheeldon and Gough from Notts County

No, but I bet you 5 dollars that it stopped us from signing a higher tier of youth player, due to uncertainty and finances, that, hopefully, we are attracting now.

[Ghost of Clough]

9 minutes ago, MACKWORTHRAM said:

Brilliant post.

Genuinely staggered when I saw Ghost Of Clough say that the damage done during admin was "overstated"

We were about 5 days from going out of business and we had nothing left. But apparently this is overstated.

I was going to reply directly, but you have said it better than I ever could.

Go on then. Explain how the damage to the academy means the academy is still playing catch up.

Or did you not actually read what I've posted and and took it as a reference to everything the club has gone through?

[KBB]

3 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Go on then. Explain how the damage to the academy means the academy is still playing catch up.

Or did you not actually read what I've posted and and took it as a reference to everything the club has gone through?

Imagine a brick layer turns up to work and the foreman has been forced to sell all the bricks. His wall is gonna be pretty poor.