Liam Rosenior

[TomTom92]

2 hours ago, Jourdan said:

He can’t be surprised. Hull have been one of the biggest spenders in the Championship in the past 12 months. The owners are ambitious. You have to keep pace or you will fall on your sword trying.

He needs a club that he can grow with, a club that can complement him in a sense of where they are in their respective journeys. Hull have designs for something much bigger at a much faster rate obviously.

A better fit for him would be a club like Plymouth. He has a similar playing philosophy to previous coaches there (Schumacher and Lowe) and they are not yet fully established at Championship level and have modest resources. It’s a challenging job but one where it can be stable and mutually beneficial.

Completely agree. Think he could probably sit it out for a safer bet than Plymouth but definitely needs a club that isn’t desperate for promotion (see us and Hull).

Even though he’s showed promise he’s still learning the ropes. 
 
Wonder who Hull will bring in, Cooper is the favourite at the moment which if it comes to fruition, the sacking becomes more understandable.

Edited May 7 by TomTom92

[jono]

It’s interesting. Let’s contrast opinions, results, owners.

Fans get us out of league 1 asap 

Clowes : get promoted but this aim is not necessarily within one season. We want to endure 

Hull : gimme gimme gimme .. or else

How many of us were calling for Warne to be sacked because we didn’t make the play offs ? Yet how many of us are saying it’s harsh to sack Liam because he didn’t either ? 

Results .. a bit of patience and we made it, they have to start again. Foolish in my mind as, whatever the finishing position they had an incremental improvement. 

There are comments on this thread about itchy trigger fingers yet so many of us are just the same and will be again next season. For me, for at least the next 2 years, we don’t need to think about sacking a manager unless we are in danger of relegation and its force majeur . Building things takes time. Keep your powder dry. 

 

[nottingram]

2 hours ago, Jourdan said:

He can’t be surprised. Hull have been one of the biggest spenders in the Championship in the past 12 months. The owners are ambitious. You have to keep pace or you will fall on your sword trying.

He needs a club that he can grow with, a club that can complement him in a sense of where they are in their respective journeys. Hull have designs for something much bigger at a much faster rate obviously.

A better fit for him would be a club like Plymouth. He has a similar playing philosophy to previous coaches there (Schumacher and Lowe) and they are not yet fully established at Championship level and have modest resources. It’s a challenging job but one where it can be stable and mutually beneficial.

They were lower mid table when he took over? Had what I would assume were some fairly expensive players not doing an awful lot in Tufan and Seri but hardly like he took over a Leeds or a Leicester.

If they were not on the brink of the play offs in January they would not have signed such high quality players on loan and he would not have had such expectations. But equally the fact he had already done a decent job with Morton and Delap probably contributed to the quality of loans he had access to. 

[Jourdan]

30 minutes ago, nottingram said:

They were lower mid table when he took over? Had what I would assume were some fairly expensive players not doing an awful lot in Tufan and Seri but hardly like he took over a Leeds or a Leicester.

If they were not on the brink of the play offs in January they would not have signed such high quality players on loan and he would not have had such expectations. But equally the fact he had already done a decent job with Morton and Delap probably contributed to the quality of loans he had access to. 

I am not saying he’s done a bad job. Far from it. Perhaps more a case of taking on a high-risk, low-reward job based on how the ownership operate.

From the fans’ perspective, those who understand the club, understand its place on the ladder, and understand the division, Rosenior will have a lot of goodwill I am sure. 

In continental football, I just don’t think the idea of ‘credit in the bank’ really and truly exists. The owners often display main character syndrome and see themselves as bigger than the manager and the manager being very much expendable, so clubs often have a culture of changing managers in the hope of a successful roll of the dice. I follow Serie A closely and it’s rife there. We’ve also seen that seep into our game with the Watford-Udinese connection.

If the Turkish group at Hull operate in a similar way, they are probably just as likely to chop and change until something clicks to their liking.

[nottingram]

3 minutes ago, Jourdan said:

I am not saying he’s done a bad job. Far from it. Perhaps more a case of taking on a high-risk, low-reward job based on how the ownership operate.

From the fans’ perspective, those who understand the club, understand its place on the ladder, and understand the division, Rosenior will have a lot of goodwill I am sure. 

In continental football, I just don’t think the idea of ‘credit in the bank’ really and truly exists. The owners often display main character syndrome and see themselves as bigger than the manager and the manager being very much expendable, so clubs often have a culture of changing managers in the hope of a successful roll of the dice. I follow Serie A closely and it’s rife there. We’ve also seen that seep into our game with the Watford-Udinese connection.

If the Turkish group at Hull operate in a similar way, they are probably just as likely to chop and change until something clicks to their liking.

Yeah I don’t disagree with that bit, they’ll soon be on their 4th manager having got rid of McCann and Rosenior harshly already. 

Just thought you’d made it sound like he took over a club expecting promotion (I probably misinterpreted) but it’s more the case that their progress under Rosenior has been part of his downfall. I’d be surprised if, at the start of last season, promotion was on anyone sensible’s agenda given where they were. But then you’re 8th in January and choose to push it with high quality loans, miss out and get sacked.

[Jubbs]

 

[Carnero]

10 minutes ago, Jubbs said:

 

How is the 22/23 wage bill at all relevant to the squad that they've had this season? Typical Maguire.

[G STAR RAM]

2 minutes ago, Carnero said:

How is the 22/23 wage bill at all relevant to the squad that they've had this season? Typical Maguire.

How anyone can refer to this guy as a 'football finance expert' is beyond me. 

Absolute muppet.

[Jourdan]

8 minutes ago, nottingram said:

Yeah I don’t disagree with that bit, they’ll soon be on their 4th manager having got rid of McCann and Rosenior harshly already. 

Just thought you’d made it sound like he took over a club expecting promotion (I probably misinterpreted) but it’s more the case that their progress under Rosenior has been part of his downfall. I’d be surprised if, at the start of last season, promotion was on anyone sensible’s agenda given where they were. But then you’re 8th in January and choose to push it with high quality loans, miss out and get sacked.

I think for most managers nowadays, they have to pick their jobs carefully. Maybe Rosenior signed a three-year deal in the winter as insurance more than anything?

The Championship was already a well known revolving door swallowing managers up and spitting them out. Then this ownership group came in, removed McCann almost instantly and then gave their own man Arveladze what amounted to slightly more than half a season, so maybe Rosenior understood he’d always be walking a tightrope?

I would agree that at the beginning of the season, most people would have had Leeds, Leicester and Southampton as the main contenders with a cluster of 6-7 other teams in the mix, with Hull as a dark horse in that group.

But as you alluded to, once you get into the top six and start rubbing shoulders with the big guns, the goalposts are only going to move one way…

Rosenior just has to play the game and pick his next job with more care. He doesn’t want to do what Rooney has done, for instance.

[sage]

3 hours ago, Jourdan said:

He can’t be surprised. Hull have been one of the biggest spenders in the Championship in the past 12 months. The owners are ambitious. You have to keep pace or you will fall on your sword trying.

He needs a club that he can grow with, a club that can complement him in a sense of where they are in their respective journeys. Hull have designs for something much bigger at a much faster rate obviously.

A better fit for him would be a club like Plymouth. He has a similar playing philosophy to previous coaches there (Schumacher and Lowe) and they are not yet fully established at Championship level and have modest resources. It’s a challenging job but one where it can be stable and mutually beneficial.

 

22 minutes ago, Jubbs said:

 

I think he may be surprised. 

[sage]

1 hour ago, jono said:

It’s interesting. Let’s contrast opinions, results, owners.

Fans get us out of league 1 asap 

Clowes : get promoted but this aim is not necessarily within one season. We want to endure 

Hull : gimme gimme gimme .. or else

How many of us were calling for Warne to be sacked because we didn’t make the play offs ? Yet how many of us are saying it’s harsh to sack Liam because he didn’t either ? 

Results .. a bit of patience and we made it, they have to start again. Foolish in my mind as, whatever the finishing position they had an incremental improvement. 

There are comments on this thread about itchy trigger fingers yet so many of us are just the same and will be again next season. For me, for at least the next 2 years, we don’t need to think about sacking a manager unless we are in danger of relegation and its force majeur . Building things takes time. Keep your powder dry. 

 

tbf we didn't have the 16th highest wage bill in our division. 

[TheTinMan]

I said on one of the other threads if you've got a squad with loans in from Liverpool and City and permanently signed Philogene amongst others from the Prem and they've got the lad Greaves everyone is supposedly after you need to be getting top 6. It was like us under Lampard, he had everything thrown at it financially to our detriment as we now know. Lampard jumped ship and he'd probably have got longer because of the infamous win against Leeds but with hindsight we should have got top 2 with the likes of Mount and Tomori on top of what was already a decent side (at the time). I feel a bit for Liam because he did ok with us and he did ok with Hull but his CV will show he's been let go twice in quickish succession which doesn't look great for a man starting out in management. 

Edited May 7 by TheTinMan

[BOB BIGGS]

1 hour ago, jono said:

It’s interesting. Let’s contrast opinions, results, owners.

Fans get us out of league 1 asap 

Clowes : get promoted but this aim is not necessarily within one season. We want to endure 

Hull : gimme gimme gimme .. or else

How many of us were calling for Warne to be sacked because we didn’t make the play offs ? Yet how many of us are saying it’s harsh to sack Liam because he didn’t either ? 

Results .. a bit of patience and we made it, they have to start again. Foolish in my mind as, whatever the finishing position they had an incremental improvement. 

There are comments on this thread about itchy trigger fingers yet so many of us are just the same and will be again next season. For me, for at least the next 2 years, we don’t need to think about sacking a manager unless we are in danger of relegation and its force majeur . Building things takes time. Keep your powder dry. 

 

I agree with all of that and yet we all know that there will be so many of our followers who will reinvigorate the “ Warne Out” campaign if we have a slow start. 
 

I shudder when I see comments suggesting that we should be aiming for the top next season, a la Ipswich. Realistically, what are the chances of that, irrespective of manager? If we can achieve a respectable mid table finish, I’ll take it now. I attended my first Rams game 60 years ago and have seen the great times and the awful times. That brings about a massive amount of realism. 

i know it’s old fashioned and probably boring, but I’m still grateful to Mr Clowes for having my Club to support. A week away from extinction recently and yet we’ve already managed promotion against so many odds. Ipswich didn’t have that kind of problem to deal with. I therefore set no unrealistic targets for the next season.
 

Unlike many owners, I suspect DC is blessed with a dose of realism too😄
 

 

[G STAR RAM]

1 minute ago, sage said:

tbf we didn't have the 16th highest wage bill in our division. 

Neither did Rosenior at a guess, unless you think the previous seasons wage bill is the relevant figure to be using.

Sometimes pays to check what you are reposting as I'm sure you wouldn't want to be seen making erroneous claims...

[sage]

5 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Neither did Rosenior at a guess, unless you think the previous seasons wage bill is the relevant figure to be using.

Sometimes pays to check what you are reposting as I'm sure you wouldn't want to be seen making erroneous claims...

Ha ha Bloody Kieran Maguire, I should have known.  It's a fair cop.

Capology have them with the 13th highest, but that's probably without mid season additions. With parachute payments, it's a reasonable assumption that only Ipswich finished above them with a smaller budget. Hard to compete with parachute teams.

 

Edited May 7 by sage

[Jourdan]

2 minutes ago, sage said:

 

I think he may be surprised. 

All that tells us is that finishing 15th in 22-23 was slightly above where Hull ‘should have been’ in financial terms.

Where does finishing 7th line up with their spending in 23-24?

[sage]

5 minutes ago, Jourdan said:

All that tells us is that finishing 15th in 22-23 was slightly above where Hull ‘should have been’ in financial terms.

Where does finishing 7th line up with their spending in 23-24?

Only Ipswich above them would have had a smaller budget. According to Capology, they finished higher than a few with bigger budgets. 

Trying to compete with parachute clubs is tough. 

[Sed]

6 hours ago, lrm14 said:

They must have someone lined up because it's an incredibly harsh decision otherwise.

Mr Rooney?😆

[jono]

32 minutes ago, Jourdan said:

I think for most managers nowadays, they have to pick their jobs carefully. Maybe Rosenior signed a three-year deal in the winter as insurance more than anything?

The Championship was already a well known revolving door swallowing managers up and spitting them out. Then this ownership group came in, removed McCann almost instantly and then gave their own man Arveladze what amounted to slightly more than half a season, so maybe Rosenior understood he’d always be walking a tightrope?

I would agree that at the beginning of the season, most people would have had Leeds, Leicester and Southampton as the main contenders with a cluster of 6-7 other teams in the mix, with Hull as a dark horse in that group.

But as you alluded to, once you get into the top six and start rubbing shoulders with the big guns, the goalposts are only going to move one way…

Rosenior just has to play the game and pick his next job with more care. He doesn’t want to do what Rooney has done, for instance.

It’s a horrid industry but if you take the job it’s your choice. Then of course if you have a 3 year contract and they don’t like you after 12 months .. the hey what’s the bother. I’d very happily work for 1 year and get 3 years pay. 
 

Was it Nathan Jones who left Luton for Stoke ? Probaly tripled his salary and had a lengthy contract, got sack quickly thus earned in a year more than a skilled man earns in a lifetime.  Not really that bothered. Only hurts a bit when fundamentally decent blokes like Cocu get stung. 

[jono]

37 minutes ago, sage said:

tbf we didn't have the 16th highest wage bill in our division. 

Bit of a scratched record.