League One tactics and DCFC

[WestKentRam]

It’s taken me almost two seasons of us being in League One, and ruminating over the last couple of days on what happened in the Northampton game and others we have lost, to finally twig what being in L1 means. Before this I was baffled when people spoke of different types of football being played in different leagues, thinking it shouldn’t matter what style of football you play, whatever league you’re in, as the ‘better’ team will mostly win. Just play your own game and good will conquer evil, as such, but this doesn't seem to always be the case.

In ‘The Numbers Game’ book by Anderson and Sally, a passage about Tony Pullis stuck with me, concerning his tactics as manager of Stoke. In the PL in 10/11 the ball was in play an average of 62.39 minutes. For Stoke, this figure was 58.52 minutes. For Man U, it was 66.58 minutes. So, Stoke had the ball in play for 8 fewer minutes per match than Man U.

Pullis knew Stoke only really had possession when the opposition put the ball out of play, so he maximised this time and worked on set pieces.

Long throws by one Rory Delap were an extension of this, with the time taken to retrieve the ball, gather it in his hands, dry it with a towel, then throw it long, the clock ticking down the whole time.

Of course there are new laws of the game to try to limit such time wasting, with multiball use, the ban on towels, 30 secs off the pitch if a physio used for treatment, more added time used etc.

However, what we have seen in L1 is an attempt to circumnavigate this, with players going down as if seriously injured, the ref stops play, the clock ticks away. As the laws have changed, the feigning of injury seems to be the new time wasting tactic. I recall that in the first 3 minutes of the second half on Saturday, they had players down requiring a stoppage 3 times, and this set the tone for the half.

Then the mascot fiasco at Northampton. Using a mascot to delay giving the ball to our player, then to try and wind them up, just shows what their tactics were. They weren’t to play football, but to waste time and aggravate our players, that worked a treat and culminated with the sending off on Bradley. Job done.

The mascot activity was reported by the media as being hilarious, but I do wonder if in a key game for us at home Rammie kept the ball from being retrieved by the opposition whether the referee and EFL would find it so funny. Should L1 really be such a pantomime?

These things didn’t happen spontaneously or by accident, they were a concerted effort to stop us playing football and to use anti-football to win, and they worked.

Not that I necessarily consider us to be the Man City of L1, but it feels like the cliché of when teams try to play football against MC they come unstuck, however deploying other tactics rather than playing MC at their own game can work.

So… the point of all these ramblings… how can we beat teams who know they can’t beat us playing football, but can beat us by employing the ‘dark arts’?

My suggestions are:

1) There should be a DCFC member of staff specifically tasked during a game with timing how long during a half has been lost to time wasting tactics such as players going down either requiring treatment or not, that seems to be the de facto new method of running the clock down as is employed in particular in the second half of games. This info should be relayed to PW, who, if we are chasing a game, could then put pressure on the 4th official to liaise with the referee so at least a semblance of this decent amount of time is added on before the board is put up.

2) The players need desensitising to being aggravated by opposition wind up and time wasting activities, and leave it to the management staff to deal with this as above. The more they argue with the referee, the more the clock ticks down and they aren’t playing football.

Unless we learn how to deal with such tactics by the ‘lesser’ teams in L1, I feel we are always going to struggle against them as it causes our play to become disjointed and haphazard. It feels like the marginal gains scenario often quoted in sport, and is an aspect we don’t obviously seem to be addressing.

Hopefully this isn’t news to PW and some consideration is being given how to handle these games that aren’t necessarily being won on pure footballing terms.

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

5 minutes ago, WestKentRam said:

It’s taken me almost two seasons of us being in League One, and ruminating over the last couple of days on what happened in the Northampton game and others we have lost, to finally twig what being in L1 means. Before this I was baffled when people spoke of different types of football being played in different leagues, thinking it shouldn’t matter what style of football you play, whatever league you’re in, as the ‘better’ team will mostly win. Just play your own game and good will conquer evil, as such, but this doesn't seem to always be the case.

In ‘The Numbers Game’ book by Anderson and Sally, a passage about Tony Pullis stuck with me, concerning his tactics as manager of Stoke. In the PL in 10/11 the ball was in play an average of 62.39 minutes. For Stoke, this figure was 58.52 minutes. For Man U, it was 66.58 minutes. So, Stoke had the ball in play for 8 fewer minutes per match than Man U.

Pullis knew Stoke only really had possession when the opposition put the ball out of play, so he maximised this time and worked on set pieces.

Long throws by one Rory Delap were an extension of this, with the time taken to retrieve the ball, gather it in his hands, dry it with a towel, then throw it long, the clock ticking down the whole time.

Of course there are new laws of the game to try to limit such time wasting, with multiball use, the ban on towels, 30 secs off the pitch if a physio used for treatment, more added time used etc.

However, what we have seen in L1 is an attempt to circumnavigate this, with players going down as if seriously injured, the ref stops play, the clock ticks away. As the laws have changed, the feigning of injury seems to be the new time wasting tactic. I recall that in the first 3 minutes of the second half on Saturday, they had players down requiring a stoppage 3 times, and this set the tone for the half.

Then the mascot fiasco at Northampton. Using a mascot to delay giving the ball to our player, then to try and wind them up, just shows what their tactics were. They weren’t to play football, but to waste time and aggravate our players, that worked a treat and culminated with the sending off on Bradley. Job done.

The mascot activity was reported by the media as being hilarious, but I do wonder if in a key game for us at home Rammie kept the ball from being retrieved by the opposition whether the referee and EFL would find it so funny. Should L1 really be such a pantomime?

These things didn’t happen spontaneously or by accident, they were a concerted effort to stop us playing football and to use anti-football to win, and they worked.

Not that I necessarily consider us to be the Man City of L1, but it feels like the cliché of when teams try to play football against MC they come unstuck, however deploying other tactics rather than playing MC at their own game can work.

So… the point of all these ramblings… how can we beat teams who know they can’t beat us playing football, but can beat us by employing the ‘dark arts’?

My suggestions are:

1) There should be a DCFC member of staff specifically tasked during a game with timing how long during a half has been lost to time wasting tactics such as players going down either requiring treatment or not, that seems to be the de facto new method of running the clock down as is employed in particular in the second half of games. This info should be relayed to PW, who, if we are chasing a game, could then put pressure on the 4th official to liaise with the referee so at least a semblance of this decent amount of time is added on before the board is put up.

2) The players need desensitising to being aggravated by opposition wind up and time wasting activities, and leave it to the management staff to deal with this as above. The more they argue with the referee, the more the clock ticks down and they aren’t playing football.

Unless we learn how to deal with such tactics by the ‘lesser’ teams in L1, I feel we are always going to struggle against them as it causes our play to become disjointed and haphazard. It feels like the marginal gains scenario often quoted in sport, and is an aspect we don’t obviously seem to be addressing.

Hopefully this isn’t news to PW and some consideration is being given how to handle these games that aren’t necessarily being won on pure footballing terms.

No. If it was in either league above, the t*** would be sacked.  We should lodge a complaint.

[WestKentRam]

6 minutes ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said:

No. If it was in either league above, the t*** would be sacked.  We should lodge a complaint.

During the game the mascot seemed to walk away from the pitch and I heard someone ask has he been sent off. Have seen no report of this but he should have been told to calm down even before the game, as using a mascot to wind up opposition fans probably isn't the most sensible way forward, but perhaps he was just warming up to get started on the players.

[TheTinMan]

On point 2) about desensitising the players. Literally the only positive I can find in us signing Dads Army players is they are experienced and some of them experienced at a far higher level than this, point 2 shouldn't apply. We cannot be blaming the opposition with limited resources compared to us, they'll do whatever they need to do and we need to adapt or stay in this league for the foreseeable. Only got ourselves to blame for missing a golden opportunity on Saturday to extend the gap and put the pressure on others. We were bloody awful in what should have been one of our lesser remaining games. 

[WestKentRam]

4 minutes ago, TheTinMan said:

On point 2) about desensitising the players. Literally the only positive I can find in us signing Dads Army players is they are experienced and some of them experienced at a far higher level than this, point 2 shouldn't apply. We cannot be blaming the opposition with limited resources compared to us, they'll do whatever they need to do and we need to adapt or stay in this league for the foreseeable. Only got ourselves to blame for missing a golden opportunity on Saturday to extend the gap and put the pressure on others. We were bloody awful in what should have been one of our lesser remaining games. 

I'm not blaming the opposition for whatever tactics they use to win games, it's just we don't seem to be able to counter them or learn as the same thing is happening repeatedly.

I fear if we end up stuck in this league it's going to be more Groundhog day of being beaten in such ways, and there must be a way forward to get results in these scenarios and not to fall for the same playbook each time.

 

[S8TY]

8 hours ago, WestKentRam said:

It’s taken me almost two seasons of us being in League One, and ruminating over the last couple of days on what happened in the Northampton game and others we have lost, to finally twig what being in L1 means. Before this I was baffled when people spoke of different types of football being played in different leagues, thinking it shouldn’t matter what style of football you play, whatever league you’re in, as the ‘better’ team will mostly win. Just play your own game and good will conquer evil, as such, but this doesn't seem to always be the case.

In ‘The Numbers Game’ book by Anderson and Sally, a passage about Tony Pullis stuck with me, concerning his tactics as manager of Stoke. In the PL in 10/11 the ball was in play an average of 62.39 minutes. For Stoke, this figure was 58.52 minutes. For Man U, it was 66.58 minutes. So, Stoke had the ball in play for 8 fewer minutes per match than Man U.

Pullis knew Stoke only really had possession when the opposition put the ball out of play, so he maximised this time and worked on set pieces.

Long throws by one Rory Delap were an extension of this, with the time taken to retrieve the ball, gather it in his hands, dry it with a towel, then throw it long, the clock ticking down the whole time.

Of course there are new laws of the game to try to limit such time wasting, with multiball use, the ban on towels, 30 secs off the pitch if a physio used for treatment, more added time used etc.

However, what we have seen in L1 is an attempt to circumnavigate this, with players going down as if seriously injured, the ref stops play, the clock ticks away. As the laws have changed, the feigning of injury seems to be the new time wasting tactic. I recall that in the first 3 minutes of the second half on Saturday, they had players down requiring a stoppage 3 times, and this set the tone for the half.

Then the mascot fiasco at Northampton. Using a mascot to delay giving the ball to our player, then to try and wind them up, just shows what their tactics were. They weren’t to play football, but to waste time and aggravate our players, that worked a treat and culminated with the sending off on Bradley. Job done.

The mascot activity was reported by the media as being hilarious, but I do wonder if in a key game for us at home Rammie kept the ball from being retrieved by the opposition whether the referee and EFL would find it so funny. Should L1 really be such a pantomime?

These things didn’t happen spontaneously or by accident, they were a concerted effort to stop us playing football and to use anti-football to win, and they worked.

Not that I necessarily consider us to be the Man City of L1, but it feels like the cliché of when teams try to play football against MC they come unstuck, however deploying other tactics rather than playing MC at their own game can work.

So… the point of all these ramblings… how can we beat teams who know they can’t beat us playing football, but can beat us by employing the ‘dark arts’?

My suggestions are:

1) There should be a DCFC member of staff specifically tasked during a game with timing how long during a half has been lost to time wasting tactics such as players going down either requiring treatment or not, that seems to be the de facto new method of running the clock down as is employed in particular in the second half of games. This info should be relayed to PW, who, if we are chasing a game, could then put pressure on the 4th official to liaise with the referee so at least a semblance of this decent amount of time is added on before the board is put up.

2) The players need desensitising to being aggravated by opposition wind up and time wasting activities, and leave it to the management staff to deal with this as above. The more they argue with the referee, the more the clock ticks down and they aren’t playing football.

Unless we learn how to deal with such tactics by the ‘lesser’ teams in L1, I feel we are always going to struggle against them as it causes our play to become disjointed and haphazard. It feels like the marginal gains scenario often quoted in sport, and is an aspect we don’t obviously seem to be addressing.

Hopefully this isn’t news to PW and some consideration is being given how to handle these games that aren’t necessarily being won on pure footballing terms.

Also there 4-5 subs they made all in one go seemed to take forever with each player being told and then walking off before the next number was shown , it seemed to take an eternity but we did get 10 mins extra at the end , but we still never looked like scoring so it was still a crap performance despite the time wasting you correctly mention

[sage]

10 minutes was added on. It's not so much time wasting as interrupting the momentum.

 

[S8TY]

4 minutes ago, sage said:

10 minutes was added on. It's not so much time wasting as interrupting the momentum.

 

Exactly this and its blatantly obvious, the amount of times one of there players went down was really frustrating and the refs seem to pander to it, also it should not take minutes and minutes  to make a sub ...we didn't play well but every time we looked like we maybe getting up a head of steam the game was stopped....and as i said blatant we could all see it 

[Crewton]

1 hour ago, S8TY said:

Exactly this and its blatantly obvious, the amount of times one of there players went down was really frustrating and the refs seem to pander to it, also it should not take minutes and minutes  to make a sub ...we didn't play well but every time we looked like we maybe getting up a head of steam the game was stopped....and as i said blatant we could all see it 

We've observed this many times before - the worst thing that can happen in this division is to go 1 down. There are few clubs who don't instantly go into "frustrate and needle" mode when that happens (some do it from the off). If the team are also struggling for rhythm and are performing at well below their best, it makes the task of getting something from the game 10x harder. That's why Waggy's miss and the referee's non-decision were so critical.

[jimtastic56]

1 hour ago, sage said:

10 minutes was added on. It's not so much time wasting as interrupting the momentum.

 

You have made a very important point about momentum. I was at the Cobblers game . How much time is wasted when Wildsmith strolls to the half way line to hoof the ball into the box. Good teams keep the ball moving so that defences don’t get time for a “Breather” or get organised. 

[WestKentRam]

I agree we didn't play well but I wonder whether part of this is we don't cope when the opposition deploys anti-football tactics.

You are right that breaking up momentum is key. It's another aspect we need to deal with, as if we need to practise plays as in American football, rather than rely on a building up a head of steam for a period of time as the opposition can deal with this by going down with an 'injury' and then the moment has passed.

Another thing is I wonder who actually times stoppages to calculate added time. I assumed it was the 4th official, but online sources tend to indicate it is the referee who then tells the 4th official who puts the board up with it. I haven't noticed the ref or 4th official stop-starting a watch with every break in play, so can only think it is a guestimate.

On Saturday with the subs and injuries it felt like between 82 and 90 minutes there was no actual football played. It wasn't clear how much added time was to be put on, and the scoreboard mysteriously seemed to stop showing the time of play towards the end of the match. Again, dark arts from Northampton or more conspiracy theory sour grapes from me?!

 

 

 

[Crewton]

9 minutes ago, jimtastic56 said:

You have made a very important point about momentum. I was at the Cobblers game . How much time is wasted when Wildsmith strolls to the half way line to hoof the ball into the box. Good teams keep the ball moving so that defences don’t get time for a “Breather” or get organised. 

As you were at the game, did you notice the number of times we tried to "keep the momentum going" by taking a quick freekick only to have the referee call us back so he could have a friendly chat with a Northampton player or some other spurious reason? I think I can recall 3 occasions at least.

When that happened, it gave Northampton time to get back into shape, by which time on occasion waiting for Wildsmith to take the freekick made no difference.

Far from curtailing Northampton's antics, the referee all too often validated them, thus increasing the team's frustrations further.

Edited March 26 by Crewton

[Ian Buxton's Bat]

A clock for, say, 60 mins playing time that stops literally every time the game stops is the best solution……goal kicks, throw ins, subs….the lot.

Doesn’t stop the antics that stop momentum but it renders time wasting a waste of time.

It would take a load of pressure off the refs and 4th officials 

[WestKentRam]

2 minutes ago, Crewton said:

As you were at the game, did you notice the number of times we tried to "keep the momentum going" by taking a quick freekick only to have the referee call us back so he could have a friendly chat with a Northampton player or some other spurious reason? I think I can recall 3 occasions at least.

When that happened, it gave Northampton time to get back into shape, by which time on occasion waiting for Wildsmith to take the freekick made no difference.

Far from curtailing Northampton's antics, the referee all too often validated them, thus increasing the team's frustrations further.

I noticed exactly this. On one occasion the ref stopped our quick free kick to give their player a yellow card, on another the usual thing of the free kick not being taken in exactly the right place. All advantage to us was lost. It certainly pays to make the foul.

Looking at the last few games, the opposition has fouled more than us, with the exception of the Port Vale match that was our most comfortable win: 10 v 8 Northampton, 12 v 9 Bolton, 17-11 Reading, 12 v 9 Bristol Rovers. The game that the successful dirty opposition tactics were clearest to me on the night, Reading away back in January, was quite a remarkable 14 v 2. 

Another aspect that I cynically consider is, it would be natural for the ref (usually part time in L1) to prefer a break in play, to give an opportunity for them catch their breath and have a nice little rest.

[Crewton]

Northampton had two players booked for fouls. They didn't have a single player booked for timewasting. 10 minutes of added time. No bookings for persistent timewasting. Nada 

No wonder Jon Brady was laughing.

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

16 minutes ago, Crewton said:

Northampton had two players booked for fouls. They didn't have a single player booked for timewasting. 10 minutes of added time. No bookings for persistent timewasting. Nada 

No wonder Jon Brady was laughing.

The fella sat down on the halfway line chewing gum and grinning for over 2 mins was my favourite.  That being said, I'd love a midfielder to show, pick up the ball quickly from the goalie, and move .  At the minute Wildsmith gets it, does the weird calm down thing with his hand for 5 seconds, then hoofs it straight through or passes it to Cashin who sends it down the wing.  We welcome congestion on tight pitches by doing this over and over.

[angieram]

52 minutes ago, WestKentRam said:

I agree we didn't play well but I wonder whether part of this is we don't cope when the opposition deploys anti-football tactics.

You are right that breaking up momentum is key. It's another aspect we need to deal with, as if we need to practise plays as in American football, rather than rely on a building up a head of steam for a period of time as the opposition can deal with this by going down with an 'injury' and then the moment has passed.

Another thing is I wonder who actually times stoppages to calculate added time. I assumed it was the 4th official, but online sources tend to indicate it is the referee who then tells the 4th official who puts the board up with it. I haven't noticed the ref or 4th official stop-starting a watch with every break in play, so can only think it is a guestimate.

On Saturday with the subs and injuries it felt like between 82 and 90 minutes there was no actual football played. It wasn't clear how much added time was to be put on, and the scoreboard mysteriously seemed to stop showing the time of play towards the end of the match. Again, dark arts from Northampton or more conspiracy theory sour grapes from me?!

 

 

 

No, the scoreboard was definitely not showing how long left for a good eight minutes. I commented on that at the time.

[angieram]

I also thought we'd signed Sonny Bradley to be our own league one shithouser,  but he's not very good at it, is he? 

He gets riled himself rather than being the one doing the riling.

[Crewton]

10 minutes ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said:

The fella sat down on the halfway line chewing gum and grinning for over 2 mins was my favourite.  That being said, I'd love a midfielder to show, pick up the ball quickly from the goalie, and move .  At the minute Wildsmith gets it, does the weird calm down thing with his hand for 5 seconds, then hoofs it straight through or passes it to Cashin who sends it down the wing.  We welcome congestion on tight pitches by doing this over and over.

I agree, but the referee made it clear on Saturday that he wasn't having any of that free-flowing football nonsense, unless it was the opposition making a quick break after bodychecking one of our players.

In general we seem reluctant to play quick freekicks forward when the opportunity arises and, given the manager's oft-stated philosophy, I can only imagine he gets as frustrated with that reluctance as I do.

[TuffLuff]

Good post, and if I may say it’s the type of content I’m here for and we don’t see enough on here!

What id say is that I think over the course of a season you are somewhat expected to drop points away from home where teams fancy their chances of an upset. Also you can expect a bit of leggyness/mental exhaustion after a big win like the Bolton one, it’s a really difficult league to find consistency in and I’d say all teams have suffered from that and hence it’s so close at the top. 
 

What’s becoming more of an issue I think is the points dropped at home. There’s been atleast 6-9 points, and that’s being kind, that we dropped. A better home record and you can excuse a trip like Saturday as one of those days and move on.