kevinhectoring Posted January 13 Share Posted January 13 4 minutes ago, Eoghan1884 said: Warne did alude to having to let players go before getting the players he wants in. Warne said “to get these (his top targets) in, you might have to let two of them (current players) go” Also talked about having to know the players going out are definitely going before getting trying to finalise deals. So could be all deals done in the last week of the window. Correct. And he said the same in the summer. We pay good wages, funded from good gate receipts. But capital sums for new talent are a different thing. I’d think DC has agreed with the family how much more can be poured into our hungry club. It may be nothing jimtastic56 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caerphilly Ram Posted January 13 Share Posted January 13 2 minutes ago, kevinhectoring said: Correct. And he said the same in the summer. We pay good wages, funded from good gate receipts. But capital sums for new talent are a different thing. I’d think DC has agreed with the family how much more can be poured into our hungry club. It may be nothing Or….and hear me out on this one…. We are still subject to the business plan which was presented to the EFL for approval and probably doesn’t have the greatest amount of wiggle room until the end of the 2024 season. The club went into administration, came close to extinction, was saved and as part of that recovery process has to be ran sensibly, according to what is likely to be a conservative business plan that safeguards the club against reckless spending. There’ll be a budget, wages, fees, agents costs etc, and we’ll have to stick to it as the club said they would. FlyBritishMidland, Returning ram, jono and 3 others 3 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caerphilly Ram Posted January 13 Share Posted January 13 11 minutes ago, kevinhectoring said: But it’s a far worse div. And otherwise we’ve got a better squad. Can’t compare stats to last year you can only compare to an imagined ‘counterfactual’. In my imaginings we have Didzy sitting behind Collins and Sibley, sprinkling passes to them like magic dust, Sibley behaving like he’s playing against Oxford and Milwall combined… We’ve cut Portsmouth adrift, Bird and Cashin are looking forward to the Championship and David Tepper has just visited David Clowes. In your world we just lost to Bradford Your argument is to ignore the facts of reality, this season versus last season, in favour of a hypothetical scenario in which we kept all our best players and are storming the league? Blondest Goat 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimtastic56 Posted January 13 Share Posted January 13 51 minutes ago, kevinhectoring said: Correct. And he said the same in the summer. We pay good wages, funded from good gate receipts. But capital sums for new talent are a different thing. I’d think DC has agreed with the family how much more can be poured into our hungry club. It may be nothing Agree, we have several players on £500k a season and even with our crowds , we are losing £3 mill a year . How long will D C want to keep subsidising DCFC ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blondest Goat Posted January 13 Share Posted January 13 1 hour ago, Eoghan1884 said: Warne did alude to having to let players go before getting the players he wants in. Warne said “to get these (his top targets) in, you might have to let two of them (current players) go” Also talked about having to know the players going out are definitely going before getting trying to finalise deals. So could be all deals done in the last week of the window. Please don't bring balance and common sense into the debate. It's all about knee-jerk reactions, ignoring the whole picture and just focussing on the things that can allow us to be miserable and wallow in self-pity. Premier ram 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinhectoring Posted January 13 Share Posted January 13 58 minutes ago, Caerphilly Ram said: Or….and hear me out on this one…. We are still subject to the business plan which was presented to the EFL for approval and probably doesn’t have the greatest amount of wiggle room until the end of the 2024 season. The club went into administration, came close to extinction, was saved and as part of that recovery process has to be ran sensibly, according to what is likely to be a conservative business plan that safeguards the club against reckless spending. There’ll be a budget, wages, fees, agents costs etc, and we’ll have to stick to it as the club said they would. Possible of course. But Warne’s longer interviews from the summer about transfers support a different view. He’s been told not to go into detail on this now - listen to the post Bradford RD interview carefully and he fades away mid sentence when he begins to explain our spending issues vis a vis other clubs. Not sure references to the business plan would be surprised in the same way. Inheritance issues involving wealthy families are hard fought and imo there’s likely to be a clear understanding as to precisely how much capital will be available. I would be surprised if post 2024 this were to change. But let’s see .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caerphilly Ram Posted January 13 Share Posted January 13 7 minutes ago, kevinhectoring said: Possible of course. But Warne’s longer interviews from the summer about transfers support a different view. He’s been told not to go into detail on this now - listen to the post Bradford RD interview carefully and he fades away mid sentence when he begins to explain our spending issues vis a vis other clubs. Not sure references to the business plan would be surprised in the same way. Inheritance issues involving wealthy families are hard fought and imo there’s likely to be a clear understanding as to precisely how much capital will be available. I would be surprised if post 2024 this were to change. But let’s see .. There are several scenarios you post about that seem wrapped up in speculation, Clowes family won’t let him spend so he needs to find investment seems to be the biggest one. What actual evidence is there to back this stance up? We know from the wide reporting of it that we are subject to a business plan, drawn up by the club and approved by the EFL for 2 years post admin. We know from what Warne has said across multiple interviews that he has a budget to use (one that Clowes believes is competitive enough to challenge for promotion, based on an interview he gave, with the caveat that nothing is guaranteed). Warne has explained a couple of times now that in a choice of paying wages out for a (perceived) good player on a free was believed to be more cost effective that using the budget on transfer fees and wages, meaning the budget will go further with our current approach (hindsight on one or two of them suggests otherwise of course). Without visibility of the accounts, or inside knowledge of Clowes’ children’s view on their inheritance, I’m prone to lean into the logic based conclusion that the budget we have is decent but limited and I accept that present reality. We cannot currently throw money around without refrain, there has to be some consideration and limit to what is spent and how, and that’s just how things are for the club at this present moment, that’s how I see it anyway. Wignall12, Dimmu, FlyBritishMidland and 1 other 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papahet Posted January 13 Share Posted January 13 It's fine, We have the Knight cash stashed away somewhere 🤐 jimtastic56 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomTom92 Posted January 13 Share Posted January 13 21 minutes ago, Caerphilly Ram said: There are several scenarios you post about that seem wrapped up in speculation, Clowes family won’t let him spend so he needs to find investment seems to be the biggest one. What actual evidence is there to back this stance up? We know from the wide reporting of it that we are subject to a business plan, drawn up by the club and approved by the EFL for 2 years post admin. We know from what Warne has said across multiple interviews that he has a budget to use (one that Clowes believes is competitive enough to challenge for promotion, based on an interview he gave, with the caveat that nothing is guaranteed). Warne has explained a couple of times now that in a choice of paying wages out for a (perceived) good player on a free was believed to be more cost effective that using the budget on transfer fees and wages, meaning the budget will go further with our current approach (hindsight on one or two of them suggests otherwise of course). Without visibility of the accounts, or inside knowledge of Clowes’ children’s view on their inheritance, I’m prone to lean into the logic based conclusion that the budget we have is decent but limited and I accept that present reality. We cannot currently throw money around without refrain, there has to be some consideration and limit to what is spent and how, and that’s just how things are for the club at this present moment, that’s how I see it anyway. Think you’ve covered it pretty well. But I think it was after the Stevenage game Derby Telegraph said Warne would have funds in Jan. I’m assuming they’ve written that on good authority. I’m also assuming by funds they don’t mean that few that we’d have to settle for a Harvey White type signing. We won’t know the answer until Feb 1st but it suggests to me we should be able to make one good signing (at least on loan) before the window closes. Personally I’d have sold Cashin to fund the window but Clowes and Pearce are it differently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ram59 Posted January 13 Share Posted January 13 3 hours ago, jono said: Hey I don’t know but I’d sacrifice heated seats and metallic paint for a bigger engine even if it cost me a few quid I think that you could have put that a bit better. I personally prefer my cheaper car with heated seats and a nice paint job compared with next doors' more expensive motor with a bigger engine, after all we are both restricted to the same speed limits.😁 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinhectoring Posted January 13 Share Posted January 13 22 minutes ago, Caerphilly Ram said: There are several scenarios you post about that seem wrapped up in speculation, Clowes family won’t let him spend so he needs to find investment seems to be the biggest one. What actual evidence is there to back this stance up? We know from the wide reporting of it that we are subject to a business plan, drawn up by the club and approved by the EFL for 2 years post admin. We know from what Warne has said across multiple interviews that he has a budget to use (one that Clowes believes is competitive enough to challenge for promotion, based on an interview he gave, with the caveat that nothing is guaranteed). Warne has explained a couple of times now that in a choice of paying wages out for a (perceived) good player on a free was believed to be more cost effective that using the budget on transfer fees and wages, meaning the budget will go further with our current approach (hindsight on one or two of them suggests otherwise of course). Without visibility of the accounts, or inside knowledge of Clowes’ children’s view on their inheritance, I’m prone to lean into the logic based conclusion that the budget we have is decent but limited and I accept that present reality. We cannot currently throw money around without refrain, there has to be some consideration and limit to what is spent and how, and that’s just how things are for the club at this present moment, that’s how I see it anyway. Two things. 1 my recollection is that in the summer Warne actually made it clear that the owner’s concerns about operating losses was the main break on spending. It was in answer to a question about recycling proceeds of Knight’s departure 2 DC is now the generation of the family who are custodians of the silver spoons. He will be acutely aware that he guards them for beneficiaries who are minors and even for beneficiaries who are not yet born. DC (he is an honourable man) will I believe feel a strong duty to limit the capital he pours into the club. (And there will doubtless have been family members who were highly sceptical about the wisdom of buying the club in the first place, and they will surely have been asked for their views.) Interesting in this context to note he originally bought the stadium only, for a good price. He told us one driver for buying the club was to protect the value of the stadium Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caerphilly Ram Posted January 13 Share Posted January 13 (edited) 2 minutes ago, kevinhectoring said: Two things. 1 my recollection is that in the summer Warne actually made it clear that the owner’s concerns about operating losses was the main break on spending. It was in answer to a question about recycling proceeds of Knight’s departure 2 DC is now the generation of the family who are custodians of the silver spoons. He will be acutely aware that he guards them for beneficiaries who are minors and even for beneficiaries who are not yet born. DC (he is an honourable man) will I believe feel a strong duty to limit the capital he pours into the club. (And there will doubtless have been family members who were highly sceptical about the wisdom of buying the club in the first place, and they will surely have been asked for their views.) Interesting in this context to note he originally bought the stadium only, for a good price. He told us one driver for buying the club was to protect the value of the stadium Like I said, speculation, not fact based. Warne has said a number of things across a number of interviews regarding the spending of the club’s budget. I’ll go looking for the quote you referenced and the context of it. Edited January 13 by Caerphilly Ram Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Van der MoodHoover Posted January 13 Share Posted January 13 39 minutes ago, Caerphilly Ram said: There are several scenarios you post about that seem wrapped up in speculation, Clowes family won’t let him spend so he needs to find investment seems to be the biggest one. What actual evidence is there to back this stance up? We know from the wide reporting of it that we are subject to a business plan, drawn up by the club and approved by the EFL for 2 years post admin. We know from what Warne has said across multiple interviews that he has a budget to use (one that Clowes believes is competitive enough to challenge for promotion, based on an interview he gave, with the caveat that nothing is guaranteed). Warne has explained a couple of times now that in a choice of paying wages out for a (perceived) good player on a free was believed to be more cost effective that using the budget on transfer fees and wages, meaning the budget will go further with our current approach (hindsight on one or two of them suggests otherwise of course). Without visibility of the accounts, or inside knowledge of Clowes’ children’s view on their inheritance, I’m prone to lean into the logic based conclusion that the budget we have is decent but limited and I accept that present reality. We cannot currently throw money around without refrain, there has to be some consideration and limit to what is spent and how, and that’s just how things are for the club at this present moment, that’s how I see it anyway. Seems reasonable to conclude budget is limited. Therefore has to be used really cutely. We have added numbers relative to last season I believe. Comments on added depth imply those numbers are on balance also higher quality....which is more debatable. Each time we seem to make 3 or 4 changes our quality drops so we keep the same legs going over busy periods and our quality drops Whatever cash profile you choose (fes+wages or frees+ higher wages) every signing has to count. That is our risk and challenge.... with only a couple of signings likely there is a good chance neither will turn out as we hope. jimtastic56 and May Contain Nuts 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinhectoring Posted January 13 Share Posted January 13 1 minute ago, Caerphilly Ram said: Like I said, speculation, not fact based That’s most unfair. My post is littered with facts. You simply want to deny the conclusion they point to Are you seriously saying Clowes will be driven by his motives as a fan to support the club financially; instead of his duties to his family and his duties as a trustee? You’ve been watching too much of Succession Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FKANorwichExile Posted January 13 Share Posted January 13 I get the impression we weren't planning on signing Nyambe and that his wages will have cut into our planned Jan spendsies, but when we found ourselves down two starting right backs as well as your young option for a long stretch, he had to beg and borrow the money. In a way, he was our Jan budget unless we can free up a few quid elsewhere. I wouldn't be too shocked if Waggy retires, or mutually cancels his contract. The club seem very vague on what his injury is. That'd give us a few pennies to go bargain shopping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcfcjj Posted January 13 Share Posted January 13 I get excited to read this in a morning thinking there will be some big news and someone’s signing. Not the case🤣🥲 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caerphilly Ram Posted January 13 Share Posted January 13 (edited) 17 minutes ago, kevinhectoring said: That’s most unfair. My post is littered with facts. You simply want to deny the conclusion they point to Are you seriously saying Clowes will be driven by his motives as a fan to support the club financially; instead of his duties to his family and his duties as a trustee? You’ve been watching too much of Succession I’m not saying anything of the sort, again it’s speculation on your part, I’ve never seen Succession, but heard it’s good. I am saying the club has set itself a budget within an approved business plan, and more than likely has to stick to that budget. As such we as fans may need to accept that we’re not yet at the point of spending heavily on signings (essentially the same conclusion you’re coming to but without promoting a speculative theory at David Clowes’ willingness or ability to invest further). The sooner fans accept those lower (and maybe more disappointing expectations) the easier it is to not feel anxious about the whole thing. You’re the one who keeps bringing David Clowes personal fortune, his willingness to invest it, and how his extended family may feel about it, into the conversation without any direct quotes or evidence to back it up. My point is that it doesn’t serve anyone or anything well to speculate on such things, however if you want to continue doing so that’s your right. I’m just looking to present a slightly more calm and rationale outlook on it than telling everyone Clowes can’t and won’t spend any money cause his family probably don’t want him to Edited January 13 by Caerphilly Ram norwichram 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rams_1233 Posted January 13 Share Posted January 13 4 minutes ago, dcfcjj said: I get excited to read this in a morning thinking there will be some big news and someone’s signing. Not the case🤣🥲 Not even a @Big Travupdate 😢 jimtastic56 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caerphilly Ram Posted January 13 Share Posted January 13 23 minutes ago, Van der MoodHoover said: Seems reasonable to conclude budget is limited. Therefore has to be used really cutely. We have added numbers relative to last season I believe. Comments on added depth imply those numbers are on balance also higher quality....which is more debatable. Each time we seem to make 3 or 4 changes our quality drops so we keep the same legs going over busy periods and our quality drops Whatever cash profile you choose (fes+wages or frees+ higher wages) every signing has to count. That is our risk and challenge.... with only a couple of signings likely there is a good chance neither will turn out as we hope. And that’s where the far more interesting debate comes from. Have we, with the benefit of hindsight, made the best use of the budget? Even captain optimism here probably has to concede that we haven’t. Some of the signings proving worthwhile, some the jury is out on due to their injuries and they may still come good and contribute before the season ends, a couple looking a bit pony and like we’d have been better investing the funds elsewhere. And yet….we’re in a good position and have very little to fear in this league on our day. jono, Van der MoodHoover and norwichram 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo Ram Posted January 13 Share Posted January 13 2 hours ago, rams_1233 said: Hopefully @Big Trav can get us talking today because its looking so so similar to last window at the moment BT is looking for redemption aren’t you mate 😉 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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