Warne Out Out

[RoyMac5]

1 minute ago, Comrade 86 said:

You're absolutely hilarious.  You screeched at anyone and everyone questioning Warne's appointment or ruing the sacking of Rosenior, for the entire balance of that season. Would you like me to quote a few hundred examples?

Ah well, I guess you must have 'forgotten' about those last two games all the while you were slating other posters, though it's odd that you've suddenly remembered them a year later. Totally credible! 😂

When have I slated other posters?

I changed my mind about Warne. I said I could have been wrong about Rosenior only playing a sideways shuffle. What's your point.

[Comrade 86]

Just now, RoyMac5 said:

When have I slated other posters?

I changed my mind about Warne. I said I could have been wrong about Rosenior only playing a sideways shuffle. What's your point.

I think I've made my point abundantly clear. I'll leave it there.

[RoyMac5]

Just now, Comrade 86 said:

I think I've made my point abundantly clear. I'll leave it there.

👍

[FlyBritishMidland]

3 hours ago, RoyMac5 said:

Well it's a tricky question, because the game before he was 'sacked' he adopted different tactics, so in a few games he'd demonstrated a flexibility that might have been necessary. 

That’ll be switching to 3 at the back and high press.  Wonder who prefers to play that way?

[RoyMac5]

Just now, FlyBritishMidland said:

That’ll be switching to 3 at the back and high press.  Wonder who prefers to play that way?

If only he'd bought in players who could execute it? 😄

[Premier ram]

12 hours ago, RoyMac5 said:

If only he'd bought in players who could execute it? 😄

 

                

[Ram-Alf]

23 hours ago, tomsdubs said:

We had a good manager that played better technical football that would have played teams of the park with this squad, Clowes sacked him.

LR was interim/caretaker manager, Clowes hired PW and offered LR a coaching post at DCFC, LR turned this offer down, Clowes reasoning for not giving LR the managers job...he said "we have a duty of care" in other words DC didn't think LR was ready for the challenge.

There was no sacking involved.

[tomsdubs]

15 minutes ago, Ram-Alf said:

LR was interim/caretaker manager, Clowes hired PW and offered LR a coaching post at DCFC, LR turned this offer down, Clowes reasoning for not giving LR the managers job...he said "we have a duty of care" in other words DC didn't think LR was ready for the challenge.

There was no sacking involved.

Semantics really, LR didn't have a full time contract because of the state of the club so they just kept a verbal rolling agreement. He was still the man in charge and would have had every reason to expect he'd at least have a chance of getting full time contract.

Didn't think he was ready for the challenge? After winning us way more points than anyone believed was possible with a completely stripped bare squad and a massive points deduction?

[Tamworthram]

15 minutes ago, tomsdubs said:

Semantics really, LR didn't have a full time contract because of the state of the club so they just kept a verbal rolling agreement. He was still the man in charge and would have had every reason to expect he'd at least have a chance of getting full time contract.

Didn't think he was ready for the challenge? After winning us way more points than anyone believed was possible with a completely stripped bare squad and a massive points deduction?

Do you know that for a fact or was he only appointed interim manager because either DC already thought he wasn’t the right man for the job or wanted to buy some time, following Rooney’s departure, in order to advertise and select a new permanent manager?

[Crewton]

6 minutes ago, tomsdubs said:

Semantics really, LR didn't have a full time contract because of the state of the club so they just kept a verbal rolling agreement. He was still the man in charge and would have had every reason to expect he'd at least have a chance of getting full time contract.

Didn't think he was ready for the challenge? After winning us way more points than anyone believed was possible with a completely stripped bare squad and a massive points deduction?

Rosenior wasn't in charge when we had a points deduction. When he had charge of in-game management after Cocu left, we were a shambles - the 3-0 defeat at Middlesbrough put paid to the jobshare management team experiment. That's not to say that Rosenior wasn't influential as Rooney's assistant, but I remember the days of "what does Liam actually do" and his inexperience was clear to see, but he spoke well and was an important part of the Rooney-led "revival". It didn't however make him a nailed-on cert for the full-time job.

[Ram-Alf]

11 minutes ago, tomsdubs said:

Semantics really, LR didn't have a full time contract because of the state of the club so they just kept a verbal rolling agreement. He was still the man in charge and would have had every reason to expect he'd at least have a chance of getting full time contract.

Didn't think he was ready for the challenge? After winning us way more points than anyone believed was possible with a completely stripped bare squad and a massive points deduction?

The difference between "semantics" and "sacking" are as different as Mount Everest and a Dead Rat.

1. So they just kept a verbal rolling agreement, What's this "verbal" rolling agreement DC had with LR? 

2. Didn't think he was ready for the challenge = duty of care, The man who pays the piper gets to call the tune.

3. After winning us way more points than anyone believed was possible with a completely stripped bare squad and a massive points deduction?...LR built the squad from 5 players to a team/squad that could start the season, The points deduction was the season before and had no bearing on the upcoming season, Not scoring in 4 away games might have had something to do with DCs decision...Charlton away, Shrewsbury away, Fleetwood away and Lincoln away, Maybe just maybe DC saw enough that he thought a different manager was needed

 

[Caerphilly Ram]

29 minutes ago, tomsdubs said:

Semantics really, LR didn't have a full time contract because of the state of the club so they just kept a verbal rolling agreement. He was still the man in charge and would have had every reason to expect he'd at least have a chance of getting full time contract.

Didn't think he was ready for the challenge? After winning us way more points than anyone believed was possible with a completely stripped bare squad and a massive points deduction?

Speculation and conjecture really.

Only Rosenior, Clowes, Pearce and maybe Warne know what expectations were set with Rosenior’s temporary role and opportunities after.

[RoyMac5]

12 minutes ago, Ram-Alf said:

The difference between "semantics" and "sacking" are as different as Mount Everest and a Dead Rat.

1. So they just kept a verbal rolling agreement, What's this "verbal" rolling agreement DC had with LR? 

2. Didn't think he was ready for the challenge = duty of care, The man who pays the piper gets to call the tune.

3. After winning us way more points than anyone believed was possible with a completely stripped bare squad and a massive points deduction?...LR built the squad from 5 players to a team/squad that could start the season, The points deduction was the season before and had no bearing on the upcoming season, Not scoring in 4 away games might have had something to do with DCs decision...Charlton away, Shrewsbury away, Fleetwood away and Lincoln away, Maybe just maybe DC saw enough that he thought a different manager was needed

 

Clowes and Pearce obviously decided not to risk appointing Rosenior (he was good enough for Blackpool and later Hull), the results being negative and then having another decision to make. They decide that a surefire appointment was needed, a league 1 expert. They now discover there's no such thing as a 'sure thing' and the future is as undetermined as ever! 😄

[Comrade 86]

31 minutes ago, tomsdubs said:

Semantics really, LR didn't have a full time contract because of the state of the club so they just kept a verbal rolling agreement. He was still the man in charge and would have had every reason to expect he'd at least have a chance of getting full time contract.

Didn't think he was ready for the challenge? After winning us way more points than anyone believed was possible with a completely stripped bare squad and a massive points deduction?

Not semantics at all. I was Rosenior's biggest fanboy, but even I'd concede he was never more than the interim manager. You can argue all day long (and you probably will) as to whether he should have been offered the job, but the rest is indisputable. Clowes himself has said that they'd been speaking to Warne for over 2 months before he was contracted, so to use your terminology, that dunks all over your argument.

Also, who is the 'anyone' you refer to when you claim he secured 'way more points than anyone believed was possible'. Were there no fans pleased to see Warne appointed then? I don't recall Roymac and the other Warne in clan members getting all dizzy over Rosenior's win ratio. All this chat about Liam is point-scoring bolarks anyway. 

[RoyMac5]

6 minutes ago, Comrade 86 said:

...You can argue all day long (and you probably will) as to whether he should have been offered the job, but the rest is indisputable. Clowes himself has said that they'd been speaking to Warne for over 2 months before he was contracted, so to use your terminology, that dunks all over your argument.

...I don't recall Roymac and the other Warne in clan members getting all dizzy over Rosenior's win ratio. All this chat about Liam is point-scoring bolarks anyway. 

Whilst he was Rotherham manager, that was interesting. I believed Clowes would appoint the best manager and had done his due diligence. I didn't see past the 'headline' league 1 promotion expert. But then all I'd seen of Warne was his interviewed mardy reaction to us staying up.

Edited January 25 by RoyMac5

[tomsdubs]

19 minutes ago, Ram-Alf said:

The difference between "semantics" and "sacking" are as different as Mount Everest and a Dead Rat.

1. So they just kept a verbal rolling agreement, What's this "verbal" rolling agreement DC had with LR? 

2. Didn't think he was ready for the challenge = duty of care, The man who pays the piper gets to call the tune.

3. After winning us way more points than anyone believed was possible with a completely stripped bare squad and a massive points deduction?...LR built the squad from 5 players to a team/squad that could start the season, The points deduction was the season before and had no bearing on the upcoming season, Not scoring in 4 away games might have had something to do with DCs decision...Charlton away, Shrewsbury away, Fleetwood away and Lincoln away, Maybe just maybe DC saw enough that he thought a different manager was needed

 

Clowes has shown he isn't one to pull the trigger at first sign of panic yet didn't really give Rosenoir a fair crack, not very fair to the guy after all that happened is it? I get that Warne was available which probably changed his thinking.

As for the 4 away games not scoring that isn't really a fair representation of the situation is it? We drew the Fleetwood and Shrewsbury games and when Warne came in our form dropped overall. We lost to Plymouth at home who went on to get promoted and the week before Rosenoir got released/sacked/sent to coventry we beat Wycombe 2-1 at home.

Warne:

Rosenoir tenure same season:

[tomsdubs]

12 minutes ago, Comrade 86 said:

Not semantics at all. I was Rosenior's biggest fanboy, but even I'd concede he was never more than the interim manager. You can argue all day long (and you probably will) as to whether he should have been offered the job, but the rest is indisputable. Clowes himself has said that they'd been speaking to Warne for over 2 months before he was contracted, so to use your terminology, that dunks all over your argument.

Also, who is the 'anyone' you refer to when you claim he secured 'way more points than anyone believed was possible'. Were there no fans pleased to see Warne appointed then? I don't recall Roymac and the other Warne in clan members getting all dizzy over Rosenior's win ratio. All this chat about Liam is point-scoring bolarks anyway. 

Not even sure what your point is here, I wasn't impressed with Warne no. Wanted Rosenoir to stay on don't care what other people thought.

I never said Rosenoir was permanent manager but he was the manager, let go/told not required/sacked whatever it's semantics.

[Tamworthram]

5 minutes ago, tomsdubs said:

Clowes has shown he isn't one to pull the trigger at first sign of panic yet didn't really give Rosenoir a fair crack, not very fair to the guy after all that happened is it? I get that Warne was available which probably changed his thinking.

As for the 4 away games not scoring that isn't really a fair representation of the situation is it? We drew the Fleetwood and Shrewsbury games and when Warne came in our form dropped overall. We lost to Plymouth at home who went on to get promoted and the week before Rosenoir got released/sacked/sent to coventry we beat Wycombe 2-1 at home.

Warne:

Rosenoir tenure same season:

Can you not concede that, upon Rooney’s departure, the conversation between DC and LR might have gone something like “thanks for you’ve done so far. Would you mind holding the fort as interim manager whilst we go through the due diligence of selecting and appointing a permanent manager. If you’re interested, you will be considered alongside other candidates. We need to appoint someone fairly quickly”.

I wouldn’t be surprised if the conversation went something like that. LR might well have agreed thinking it will give him a chance, albeit brief one, to prove himself worthy. Only time will tell if it was the right decision or not, but it must have been difficult to look beyond someone with PW’s track record for getting promoted out of league 1.

It was a shame for LR but I don’t see it as being unfair. Sticking around for the disaster that was the previous season and making a decent start to the new one wouldn’t and shouldn’t have made him a shoe in for the job on a permanent basis. 
 

I agree that, in an ideal world, he could have been longer as interim/caretaker but DC presumably decided that, for the stability of the club if nothing else, a swift decision was necessary and in an assessment LR v PW, LR was always going to struggle at that time.

Pointing to LR’s record at Hull may well prove that the wrong decision was made but that’s an easy conclusion to come to with the benefit of hindsight.

[tomsdubs]

1 minute ago, Tamworthram said:

Can you not concede that, upon Rooney’s departure, the conversation between DC and LR might have gone something like “thanks for you’ve done so far. Would you mind holding the fort as interim manager whilst we go through the due diligence of selecting and appointing a permanent manager. If you’re interested, you will be considered alongside other candidates. We need to appoint someone fairly quickly”.

I wouldn’t be surprised if the conversation went something like that. LR might well have agreed thinking it will give him a chance, albeit brief one, to prove himself worthy. Only time will tell if it was the right decision or not, but it must have been difficult to look beyond someone with PW’s track record for getting promoted out of league 1.

It was a shame for LR but I don’t see it as being unfair. Sticking around for the disaster that was the previous season and making a decent start to the new one wouldn’t and shouldn’t have made him a shoe in for the job on a permanent basis. 
 

I agree that, in an ideal world, he could have been longer as interim/caretaker but DC presumably decided that, for the stability of the club if nothing else, a swift decision was necessary and in an assessment LR v PW, LR was always going to struggle at that time.

Pointing to LR’s record at Hull may well prove that the wrong decision was made but that’s an easy conclusion to come to with the benefit of hindsight.

I've never not considered that. Loads of hindsight in football and it's never as straight forward as you think it is. Just my personal judgement at the time was to keep LR, he would prob have needed a bit of time to get fully going but then again Warne didn't exactly hit the ground running?

If we end up third season in L1 with Warne do we all agree it's a failure or do people still give him even more grace?

[Tamworthram]

16 minutes ago, tomsdubs said:

I've never not considered that. Loads of hindsight in football and it's never as straight forward as you think it is. Just my personal judgement at the time was to keep LR, he would prob have needed a bit of time to get fully going but then again Warne didn't exactly hit the ground running?

If we end up third season in L1 with Warne do we all agree it's a failure or do people still give him even more grace?

I think it depends on the circumstances of us ending up with a third season in L1.

At one end of the spectrum, if we finish third, just missing out on the auto's, and narrowly (possibly unluckily) falling short in the play offs then, definitely more grace. At the other end of the spectrum, if we fall apart, plummet down the league and finish mid table or below then I'd probably feel differently. Reality probably will be somewhere between the two extremes.