Derby v Carlisle (A) Match Thread

[jimtastic56]

11 minutes ago, DavesaRam said:

He didn’t pit a load of youngsters into the first team “for their development”, it was to rest and protect his senior players in a match he wasn’t bothered about.

It was at the City Ground, and the majority of the team had never played at that level before, and we were completely played off the park. Then add in a packed ground in a local derby and all it could have done is a huge amount of damage to those young lads.

It was also a tough call for all those Rams fans who turned up and had nothing to watch. Cocu did admit to under-estimating the importance of a local derby match.

Didn’t Florists put a younger team out that us that night ? Including a very young Brennan Johnson making his debut. Thrown in the deep end . At the end of the day it boils down to the quality of youngsters coming into the club.

[Ghost of Clough]

10 hours ago, winktheram said:

You disagree on his judgement on their ability - wow, you must watch a lot of U16, U18 & U21 games and most of their training sessions.

Some people will have watched more games and have worse judgement, others will have watched less and have better judgement.

Paul Warne's lack of knowledge in our youth players is minimal based on the evidence so far - not being able to name them (including the hattrick scorer from a game he attended earlier that day) being an obvious example. 

[Curtains]

8 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Some people will have watched more games and have worse judgement, others will have watched less and have better judgement.

Paul Warne's lack of knowledge in our youth players is minimal based on the evidence so far - not being able to name them (including the hattrick scorer from a game he attended earlier that day) being an obvious example. 

But his mind might of just gone blank at that point in front of a large audience asking him questions.

Ever happened to you momentarily !

[Ghost of Clough]

30 minutes ago, jimtastic56 said:

Didn’t Florists put a younger team out that us that night ? Including a very young Brennan Johnson making his debut. Thrown in the deep end . At the end of the day it boils down to the quality of youngsters coming into the club.

Their side had the majority of their first 11 from that season playing.

Derby

Hamer
Holmes   Davies   Clarke   Buchanan
Evans   Shinnie
Whittaker   Sibley   Paterson
Bennett
Subs: Bird for Shinnie, Marriott for Sibley, Mitchell-Lawson for Whittaker

 

Forest

Samba
Cash   Worrall   Figueiredo   Ribeiro
Bostock   Semedo
Lolley   Johnson   Adomah
Mir
Subs: Carvalho for Johnson, Silva for Lolley, Rodriguez for Worrall

[Curtains]

5 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Their side had the majority of their first 11 from that season playing.

Derby

Hamer
Holmes   Davies   Clarke   Buchanan
Evans   Shinnie
Whittaker   Sibley   Paterson
Bennett
Subs: Bird for Shinnie, Marriott for Sibley, Mitchell-Lawson for Whittaker

 

Forest

Samba
Cash   Worrall   Figueiredo   Ribeiro
Bostock   Semedo
Lolley   Johnson   Adomah
Mir
Subs: Carvalho for Johnson, Silva for Lolley, Rodriguez for Worrall

What’s your point here.  Most of those players have moved on in Derbys team  due to going into administration etc. 

 

Edited September 28, 2023 by Curtains
Altered

[May Contain Nuts]

1 hour ago, DavesaRam said:

He didn’t pit a load of youngsters into the first team “for their development”, it was to rest and protect his senior players in a match he wasn’t bothered about.

It was at the City Ground, and the majority of the team had never played at that level before, and we were completely played off the park. Then add in a packed ground in a local derby and all it could have done is a huge amount of damage to those young lads.

It was also a tough call for all those Rams fans who turned up and had nothing to watch. Cocu did admit to under-estimating the importance of a local derby match.

B Hamer - Experienced GK
M Clarke - Multiple POTY winning CB
C Davies - Vastly experienced CB
L Buchanan - Youngster. Became a regular in the team, now first choice in a top 10 Champ team
G Shinnie  - Experienced CM, POTY one season
 > (Bird, 83) - Youngster? Since established as a mainstay in our team, mentally very strong, unlikely to have been affected!
J Paterson - Experienced Ship's Anchor.
G Evans - Relatively inexperienced but had proven himself with Reading prior to us signing him. Injuries seem to have stalled his progress.
M Bennett - An experienced pro by this point, coming off the back of his best ever season.
L Sibley - Youngster. Flourished later in that very season. Problems establishing himself under subsequent managers.
 > (Marriott, 58) - Relatively experienced striker. Hot property at the time but couldn't be arsed
D Holmes - Experienced midfielder. Nothing else to say
M Whittaker - Youngster. A later developer than some others but to suggest he's been damaged by playing in this game is laughable - look at him now!
 > (Mitchell-Lawson, 70) - Youngster. Liked him, but at no point did he really look Championship standard IMO.

Unused subs
K Roos
R Keogh
T Lawrence
J Knight

Only really 5 players (if including Bird) you could call a youngster and/or making their first forays into men's football and I can't see any evidence that any of that team were in the slightest bit 'damaged' from the experience tbh. Cocu knew what he was doing with them.

Edited September 28, 2023 by Kokosnuss

[Ghost of Clough]

9 minutes ago, Curtains said:

But his mind might of just gone blank at that point in front of a large audience asking him questions.

Ever happened to you momentarily !

He didn't know the score - he said 4-2 when it was 5-2
He stated he watches the first half of U21 games on Saturdays - they have played on a Saturday only once since he's been manager. He's likely been watching the U18s instead but doesn't realise it.
He's joked about not wanting to be quizzed on naming the academy players.

[Curtains]

Just now, Ghost of Clough said:

He didn't know the score - he said 4-2 when it was 5-2
He stated he watches the first half of U21 games on Saturdays - they have played on a Saturday only once since he's been manager. He's likely been watching the U18s instead but doesn't realise it.
He's joked about not wanting to be quizzed on naming the academy players.

Well I’m just thinking the academy has had a big rebuild since administration and some of that was prior to Warne arriving.  I’m not defending him but I couldn’t tell you many academy line ups or score lines this season.  I’m sure Warnes priority is 1st team matters and he relies on JB and BJ to give him informed opinion as it’s their job. 
I remember going to a forum with Frank Lampard and he couldn’t remember a players name. I think it was a goalie but can’t remember 

[Ghost of Clough]

26 minutes ago, Curtains said:

What’s your point here.  Most of those players have moved on in Derbys team  due to going into administration etc. 

I was responding to the poster who said "Didn’t Florists put a younger team out that us that night ? Including a very young Brennan Johnson making his debut. Thrown in the deep end . At the end of the day it boils down to the quality of youngsters coming into the club."

I wsa showing them what the teams of both sides were on the night.

 

19 minutes ago, Curtains said:

Well I’m just thinking the academy has had a big rebuild since administration and some of that was prior to Warne arriving.  I’m not defending him but I couldn’t tell you many academy line ups or score lines this season.  I’m sure Warnes priority is 1st team matters and he relies on JB and BJ to give him informed opinion as it’s their job. 
I remember going to a forum with Frank Lampard and he couldn’t remember a players name. I think it was a goalie but can’t remember 

I'm not denying there wasn't a rebuild because we have lost a lot of talented youngsters. However, we do still have a number of talented players who aren't getting the first team experience they need for their development. Warne's approach is out of touch with the modern game, but that's not surprising when he's only ever worked at a club with a Category 3 academy prior to joining our club.

I would struggle to recall the score lines of individual games too. However, I would find it impossible to forget the scoreline of a game I attended a few hours ago, unless I wasn't interested in anything other than the first team players who are on the field, and then walk away when they've come off the pitch.

Warne shouldn't be relying on Buxton. He should be using his own judgment on players for the same reasons that everyone on this forum holds different opinions to someone else.

Small details matter:

• 2-0 up with 10 minutes to play against Lincoln in the Pizza Cup. It's the perfect scenario to give Robinson or Brown a runout to show what they can do, and to also give Smith or Collins a rest. Instead we only use 4 out of our 5 subs.
• 1-0 up vs Fleetwood. We've only used 4 subs and Mendez-Laing can hardly walk. We could have brought Bardell on to add fresh legs to the RWB area, or added Robinson to the midfield area to help shield the defence
  2-0 up vs Carlisle with 2 subs spare. Another opportunity to give minutes to Robinson in a low risk scenario and give Smith a rest.

[Curtains]

3 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

I was responding to the poster who said "Didn’t Florists put a younger team out that us that night ? Including a very young Brennan Johnson making his debut. Thrown in the deep end . At the end of the day it boils down to the quality of youngsters coming into the club."

I wsa showing them what the teams of both sides were on the night.

 

I'm not denying there wasn't a rebuild because we have lost a lot of talented youngsters. However, we do still have a number of talented players who aren't getting the first team experience they need for their development. Warne's approach is out of touch with the modern game, but that's not surprising when he's only ever worked at a club with a Category 3 academy prior to joining our club.

I would struggle to recall the score lines of individual games too. However, I would find it impossible to forget the scoreline of a game I attended a few hours ago, unless I wasn't interested in anything other than the first team players who are on the field, and then walk away when they've come off the pitch.

Warne shouldn't be relying on Buxton. He should be using his own judgment on players for the same reasons that everyone on this forum holds different opinions to someone else.

Small details matter:

• 2-0 up with 10 minutes to play against Lincoln in the Pizza Cup. It's the perfect scenario to give Robinson or Brown a runout to show what they can do, and to also give Smith or Collins a rest. Instead we only use 4 out of our 5 subs.
• 1-0 up vs Fleetwood. We've only used 4 subs and Mendez-Laing can hardly walk. We could have brought Bardell on to add fresh legs to the RWB area, or added Robinson to the midfield area to help shield the defence
  2-0 up vs Carlisle with 2 subs spare. Another opportunity to give minutes to Robinson in a low risk scenario and give Smith a rest.

Again not sticking up for Warne bu maybe he thought it was a risk to bring them in late in a game. 
I remember being 2-0 up at home in injury time to Birmingham and drawing the game 2-2.  I think GaryRowett was  Brum manager at the time. 
Another Manager who got stuck off Derby fans. 
Look mate I can except some of your points of course I can because you are well researched. 
I think Warne isn’t deliberately stopping youth coming through but that’s not your opinion.  
Up the Rams 🐏 

[Tamworthram]

1 hour ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Some people will have watched more games and have worse judgement, others will have watched less and have better judgement.

Paul Warne's lack of knowledge in our youth players is minimal based on the evidence so far - not being able to name them (including the hattrick scorer from a game he attended earlier that day) being an obvious example. 

Lack of knowledge being minimal is a good thing right? Double negative. 😀

[May Contain Nuts]

4 minutes ago, Curtains said:

 I think GaryRowett was  Brum manager at the time. 

Oh god don't remind me.

The game where 5 minutes of added time became 8 or 9 minutes, for absolutely no reason anyone could discern.

Edited September 28, 2023 by Kokosnuss

[Curtains]

15 minutes ago, Kokosnuss said:

Oh god don't remind me.

The game where 5 minutes of added time became 8 or 9 minutes, for absolutely no reason anyone could discern.

Mind you I can remember being 3 up at Leeds and them coming back to win  4-3 ..Dean Sturridge was nearly the hero 

My memory wasted great there lol 

Edited September 28, 2023 by Curtains
Added

[Ghost of Clough]

11 minutes ago, Tamworthram said:

Lack of knowledge being minimal is a good thing right? Double negative. 😀

Oops

[Foreveram]

2 hours ago, DavesaRam said:

He didn’t pit a load of youngsters into the first team “for their development”, it was to rest and protect his senior players in a match he wasn’t bothered about.

It was at the City Ground, and the majority of the team had never played at that level before, and we were completely played off the park. Then add in a packed ground in a local derby and all it could have done is a huge amount of damage to those young lads.

It was also a tough call for all those Rams fans who turned up and had nothing to watch. Cocu did admit to under-estimating the importance of a local derby match.

It certainly did a huge amount of damage to me😂

Very disappointed when we saw the line up, Cocu definitely didn’t realise the importance of winning a local derby.

Still at least the players have had a good rest and we can look forward to a good result at Brentford, or so we thought.

We were beaten 3-0 in one of most lacklustre performances of the season.

[jimtastic56]

53 minutes ago, Foreveram said:

It certainly did a huge amount of damage to me😂

Very disappointed when we saw the line up, Cocu definitely didn’t realise the importance of winning a local derby.

Still at least the players have had a good rest and we can look forward to a good result at Brentford, or so we thought.

We were beaten 3-0 in one of most lacklustre performances of the season.

As for that Brentford team - they did have some good players that day including Watkins (2) and Benrahma . They paid less for those two than we had  paid for Beilik who started for us. Funny how things turn out.

[G STAR RAM]

21 hours ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Warne couldn't even give the correct score or name the hattrick scorer from the game he watched just a few hours earlier. You trust his judgement on if a player should or shouldn't be given a few minutes of action in the first team?

Why would you need to know someone's name to make a judgement on whether they were good enough to play in your team?

[Tyler Durden]

8 hours ago, Ghost of Clough said:

I was responding to the poster who said "Didn’t Florists put a younger team out that us that night ? Including a very young Brennan Johnson making his debut. Thrown in the deep end . At the end of the day it boils down to the quality of youngsters coming into the club."

I wsa showing them what the teams of both sides were on the night.

 

I'm not denying there wasn't a rebuild because we have lost a lot of talented youngsters. However, we do still have a number of talented players who aren't getting the first team experience they need for their development. Warne's approach is out of touch with the modern game, but that's not surprising when he's only ever worked at a club with a Category 3 academy prior to joining our club.

I would struggle to recall the score lines of individual games too. However, I would find it impossible to forget the scoreline of a game I attended a few hours ago, unless I wasn't interested in anything other than the first team players who are on the field, and then walk away when they've come off the pitch.

Warne shouldn't be relying on Buxton. He should be using his own judgment on players for the same reasons that everyone on this forum holds different opinions to someone else.

Small details matter:

• 2-0 up with 10 minutes to play against Lincoln in the Pizza Cup. It's the perfect scenario to give Robinson or Brown a runout to show what they can do, and to also give Smith or Collins a rest. Instead we only use 4 out of our 5 subs.
• 1-0 up vs Fleetwood. We've only used 4 subs and Mendez-Laing can hardly walk. We could have brought Bardell on to add fresh legs to the RWB area, or added Robinson to the midfield area to help shield the defence
  2-0 up vs Carlisle with 2 subs spare. Another opportunity to give minutes to Robinson in a low risk scenario and give Smith a rest.

Maybe the ref at the game was Will Smith

 

[DavesaRam]

21 hours ago, jimtastic56 said:

 

Edited September 29, 2023 by DavesaRam