Is Warne living on borrowed time?

[TomTom92]

3 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

When you look at the players who have moved from one club in our league or below to another they number quite a few players. Do you believe we weren't after any of them? When you look in the leagues above you might ask similar. If we were in for none of them then I ask you why not?

Agreed the Weir news is just the cherry on top of the cake. 
 
If you can’t sell 30,000 fans, a club full of history and a salary that’s competitive then there’s no hope.

[Tyler Durden]

Just now, RoyMac5 said:

When you look at the players who have moved from one club in our league or below to another they number quite a few players. Do you believe we weren't after any of them? When you look in the leagues above you might ask similar. If we were in for none of them then I ask you why not?

Roy you've not answered my question as you can't. As neither can I.

So you've proved my exact point with my reply in essence.

It's only really Warne and Derby whom know which players they made serious offers for and then they turned us down.

But we can then leap to the conclusion that because we haven't seen an influx of stellar recruits this summer then it's because the fault lies at Warnes door automatically. We don't know.

But the lazy insinuation to draw if it suits your purposes is it must be. And none of use know the precise list of players we had an interest in, and if they did which club to they go to instead and why - for more money, to live closer to home etc etc 

But no it must all be down to Warne as a manager. If that's the agenda you have.

[RoyMac5]

1 minute ago, Tyler Durden said:

But the lazy insinuation to draw if it suits your purposes is it must be. And none of use know the precise list of players we had an interest in, and if they did which club to they go to instead and why - for more money, to live closer to home etc etc 

But no it must all be down to Warne as a manager. If that's the agenda you have.

It's not a lazy insinuation, and I'll take it you can't prove your point.

As this suggests

1 minute ago, TomTom92 said:

Agreed the Weir news is just the cherry on top of the cake. 
 
If you can’t sell 30,000 fans, a club full of history and a salary that’s competitive then there’s no hope.

 

[TomTom92]

2 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

Roy you've not answered my question as you can't. As neither can I.

So you've proved my exact point with my reply in essence.

It's only really Warne and Derby whom know which players they made serious offers for and then they turned us down.

But we can then leap to the conclusion that because we haven't seen an influx of stellar recruits this summer then it's because the fault lies at Warnes door automatically. We don't know.

But the lazy insinuation to draw if it suits your purposes is it must be. And none of use know the precise list of players we had an interest in, and if they did which club to they go to instead and why - for more money, to live closer to home etc etc 

But no it must all be down to Warne as a manager. If that's the agenda you have.

After disagree on this one. Maybe harsh to put it all at Warne’s door. I’m happy to question the recruitment team too. 
 
But there’s been at least 3 occasions when a players been close then done their best Lord Lucan impression. 
 
When the window shuts if we haven’t got our ducks in a row then there’s no excuses to be made. A club of our size in this division with a competitive budget should be having one of the better windows. 

[Tyler Durden]

Just now, RoyMac5 said:

It's not a lazy insinuation, and I'll take it you can't prove your point.

As this suggests

 

Neither of us know Roy and it's inferences we're drawing not facts. 

Let's discuss one by one each player whom actually turned us down then and the reason behind each one to make this an actual debate based on fact.

You start then. 

[RoyMac5]

 

[Tyler Durden]

3 minutes ago, TomTom92 said:

After disagree on this one. Maybe harsh to put it all at Warne’s door. I’m happy to question the recruitment team too. 
 
But there’s been at least 3 occasions when a players been close then done their best Lord Lucan impression. 
 
When the window shuts if we haven’t got our ducks in a row then there’s no excuses to be made. A club of our size in this division with a competitive budget should be having one of the better windows. 

Same question to you as RoyMac - give me a list of players that you know categorically turned us down and for each player the precise reason why they made their decision. Go. 

[TomTom92]

Just now, Tyler Durden said:

Same question to you as RoyMac - give me a list of players that you know categorically turned us down and for each player the precise reason why they made their decision. Go. 

If that’s the criteria on discussing transfers on a forum then nobody apart from mystic BigTrav will have an opinion. 
 
Every club misses out on targets that’s part and parcel. But if you’re telling me that we haven’t lost out on some good young talent to other league 1 clubs then sorry I’m not buying it. Without being arrogant at this level if we come in for a player we should be ‘winning the race’ more often than not. 
 
If we haven’t lost out on any young targets then I’m questioning the recruitment team as to who they’re looking at.

[May Contain Nuts]

I agree that you can't put players going to other clubs at Warne's door, without the player coming out and saying as much.

There's enough discussion to go at as to whether the ones we have chosen to sign are the correct signings for the system we're going to be playing without talking about players who aren't here for one untold reason or another.

[vonwright]

5 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

Roy you've not answered my question as you can't. As neither can I.

So you've proved my exact point with my reply in essence.

It's only really Warne and Derby whom know which players they made serious offers for and then they turned us down.

But we can then leap to the conclusion that because we haven't seen an influx of stellar recruits this summer then it's because the fault lies at Warnes door automatically. We don't know.

But the lazy insinuation to draw if it suits your purposes is it must be. And none of use know the precise list of players we had an interest in, and if they did which club to they go to instead and why - for more money, to live closer to home etc etc 

But no it must all be down to Warne as a manager. If that's the agenda you have.

It's true we don't know - but does it matter? Surely Warne and his recruitment team are ultimately responsible for getting the right players in? Identifying a sufficient number of targets who do want to play for the club to make sure we don't end up precisely where we are right now? To switch targets if we aren't making progress on a deal? To identify the gaps and priorities early and deal accordingly? 

I'm sure bad luck or broken promises might have cost us a signing or two. That happens. But did we not have a fall back plan? And why were we able to sign so many defenders so quickly but make absolutely no progress on the midfield, or the abject lack of pace and guile in attacking positions? Why are we still talking about replacing McGoldrick having signed two strikers already?

I don't know whether it's true that some players don't want to play for Warne. I'm not even sure it matters. Let's say everyone we've tried to sign does want to play for him - does that somehow reflect better on our transfer dealings these past couple of months?

[Tyler Durden]

2 minutes ago, TomTom92 said:

If that’s the criteria on discussing transfers on a forum then nobody apart from mystic BigTrav will have an opinion. 
 
Every club misses out on targets that’s part and parcel. But if you’re telling me that we haven’t lost out on some good young talent to other league 1 clubs then sorry I’m not buying it. Without being arrogant at this level if we come in for a player we should be ‘winning the race’ more often than not. 
 
If we haven’t lost out on any young targets then I’m questioning the recruitment team as to who they’re looking at.

But that's an inference though. Which I presume you've based on a logical thought process in your mind that we must have been in for some players this summer whom turned us down because as you quite rightly say every club misses out on transfer targets. 

That was never the debate here. The debate was that all of these "misses" therefore MUST be down to Warne not having enough attraction as a manager. Inference again. None of us know the precise reasons why the players turned us down only the protagonists themselves.

But it MUST be down to Warne. As they all should want to come to a club and play Infront of 30k supporters every home game. 

[Chris_Martin]

1 hour ago, DCFC Kicks said:

They've not been playing as a flat 3 in midfield. Bird has been higher up as a CAM 

yes but out of possession he drops back slightly into a 3

[TomTom92]

1 minute ago, Tyler Durden said:

But that's an inference though. Which I presume you've based on a logical thought process in your mind that we must have been in for some players this summer whom turned us down because as you quite rightly say every club misses out on transfer targets. 

That was never the debate here. The debate was that all of these "misses" therefore MUST be down to Warne not having enough attraction as a manager. Inference again. None of us know the precise reasons why the players turned us down only the protagonists themselves.

But it MUST be down to Warne. As they all should want to come to a club and play Infront of 30k supporters every home game. 

Well if I’ve joined a debate and have missed the point of the debate then apologise. 
 
But for my money if the window shuts and we’re found wanting. Blame must go to Warne and the recruitment team. It’s not like we’re Carlisle. Half the work should be done by default that we’re the size we are. 

Some managers are strong in the market. They just have the gift of the gab. Warne for me hasn’t shown this. Then for me he’s tactically poor, doesn’t develop players so I’m starting to question what he brings to the table. 
 
Im still Warne in by the way, but more and more that’s down to him seeming like a nice bloke and not wanting change as opposed to evidence on the pitch.

[Tyler Durden]

3 minutes ago, vonwright said:

It's true we don't know - but does it matter? Surely Warne and his recruitment team are ultimately responsible for getting the right players in? Identifying a sufficient number of targets who do want to play for the club to make sure we don't end up precisely where we are right now? To switch targets if we aren't making progress on a deal? To identify the gaps and priorities early and deal accordingly? 

I'm sure bad luck or broken promises might have cost us a signing or two. That happens. But did we not have a fall back plan? And why were we able to sign so many defenders so quickly but make absolutely no progress on the midfield, or the abject lack of pace and guile in attacking positions? Why are we still talking about replacing McGoldrick having signed two strikers already?

I don't know whether it's true that some players don't want to play for Warne. I'm not even sure it matters. Let's say everyone we've tried to sign does want to play for him - does that somehow reflect better on our transfer dealings these past couple of months?

It does matter for some folks on here - that was always my original point. It matters because they are happy to jump to the conclusion that it must be down to Warne as a person that players aren't coming to the club. Which suits their narrative. 

Moving away from that point with the rest of your post yes am sure Warne had a list of targets much in the same way Klopp did at Liverpool. Did Klopp expect the guy from Brighton to turn him down today - bet you he didn't. 

Again we dont know which players we were categorically in for and then which clubs they then went to instead of us and again sorry but their personal reasons for this. 

I understand their is a lot of angst being flung around now regards our transfer dealings this summer but sone folks expect us to be shopping in Harrods usng a budget from Kwiksave.

[InstaRam]

We have been far from the best when it comes to recruiting for quite some time and maybe need to focus on other aspects regarding how we may optimize our chances on the pitch for this season? Maybe focus on the first window without restrictions opens and have a very clear list of targets ready by then? No point spending on players which won't improve us I guess and personally I am not so keen on developing others teams players when we have our own academy. 

[Premier ram]

30 minutes ago, TomTom92 said:

Agreed the Weir news is just the cherry on top of the cake. 
 
If you can’t sell 30,000 fans, a club full of history and a salary that’s competitive then there’s no hope.

Has it been confirmed that we were actually after him

[RoyMac5]

5 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

It does matter for some folks on here - that was always my original point. It matters because they are happy to jump to the conclusion that it must be down to Warne as a person that players aren't coming to the club. Which suits their narrative. 

Lol. Yes it does. Just as you can't prove players haven't not come to us because of him, which would serve your narrative. 😄

Next you'll be saying it's okay we only wanted a small squad anyway.

Edited August 11, 2023 by RoyMac5

[Tyler Durden]

7 minutes ago, TomTom92 said:

Well if I’ve joined a debate and have missed the point of the debate then apologise. 
 
But for my money if the window shuts and we’re found wanting. Blame must go to Warne and the recruitment team. It’s not like we’re Carlisle. Half the work should be done by default that we’re the size we are. 

Some managers are strong in the market. They just have the gift of the gab. Warne for me hasn’t shown this. Then for me he’s tactically poor, doesn’t develop players so I’m starting to question what he brings to the table. 
 
Im still Warne in by the way, but more and more that’s down to him seeming like a nice bloke and not wanting change as opposed to evidence on the pitch.

Have you ever had the opportunity to have first hand experience in Warne negotiating a transfer deal. 

Neither have I.

[i-Ram]

2 minutes ago, Premier ram said:

Has it been confirmed that we were actually after him

I would say no PR, but its too late looking for facts as it seems the cupboard with the pitchforks in was left unsecured.

[Premier ram]

29 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said: