Jason Knight - joined Bristol City

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Caerphilly Ram said:

Your statement that no sane organisation would pay a third choice keeper who isn’t going to feature infers the club isn’t acting in a sane manner, which seems a little misplaced. 

Football clubs typically operate with 3 senior goalkeepers, it’s nothing new and something that must surely have been budgeted for by Derby. If Wildsmith or Vickers got injured Loach would be on the bench, he may play in one of the 3 cup competitions we have also. 

Not to mention that, in Loach's case, he was presumably on a downward trajectory in terms of his wages when he joined Hartlepool / Barnet / Chesterfield, so I would guess we got a steady and experienced pair of hands on reasonably low pay, acting as an insurance policy (not intended to ever play any part in the league except in case of emergency; may play in less important cup fixtures, as you say).

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

4 minutes ago, Caerphilly Ram said:

Your statement that no sane organisation would pay a third choice keeper who isn’t going to feature infers the club isn’t acting in a sane manner, which seems a little misplaced. 

Football clubs typically operate with 3 senior goalkeepers, it’s nothing new and something that must surely have been budgeted for by Derby. If Wildsmith or Vickers got injured Loach would be on the bench, he may play in one of the 3 cup competitions we have also. 

If moneys that tight it impacts on bringing in a player who will play, then yes, which was the scenario put to me.

We can get an emergency loan in that scenario, or ideally we'd have a young goalie of our own if they're ready.  A situation where you're without both goalies would be rare.  If I was 2nd choice goalie and the 3rd choice goalie played in cup games ahead of me, I wouldn't be happy.

[VulcanRam]

5 minutes ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said:

If moneys that tight it impacts on bringing in a player who will play, then yes, which was the scenario put to me.

We can get an emergency loan in that scenario, or ideally we'd have a young goalie of our own if they're ready.  A situation where you're without both goalies would be rare.  If I was 2nd choice goalie and the 3rd choice goalie played in cup games ahead of me, I wouldn't be happy.

Can you enlighten us on the reasons Scott Loach was signed and what the expectations are from within the club? 

[CBRammette]

1 minute ago, VulcanRam said:

Can you enlighten us on the reasons Scott Loach was signed and what the expectations are from within the club? 

Or even why we're talking about in the Knight thread?

[alram]

3 hours ago, Animal is a Ram said:

I also get the sense this may be more of a reflection of the situation Championship finds itself in financially. Gone are the days of teams like Bristol City (decent size, but no parachute payments) splashing £5m on even standout L1 players, maybe pre-COVID days we might have had offers of £3-4m from teams for Knight instead of £1-2m.

Come the end of the window, £2m might look sizeable in context.

 

we were never getting more than £2m

 

but as with any transfer fee the only relevant bit is what we spend it on, if we got £10m for him and wasted it on tosh then its irrelevant what we got

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

Just now, VulcanRam said:

Can you enlighten us on the reasons Scott Loach was signed and what the expectations are from within the club? 

Can you? He played a lot last season didn't he and that's when he was number 2.  I think his roles apparent based on that-less than before.  However, I wait to amazed as he's crowned League 1 player of the year and gets that move to Madrid in a Rocky v Apollo Creed sporting super story .

[FlyBritishMidland]

2 hours ago, Caerphilly Ram said:

With your experience and in your hypothetical scenario would Bob’s comments prevent you from doing your job negotiating the price? Or would you discuss with the other parties that Bob isn’t making those decisions and the numbers in question remain your responsibility?

In you Bob scenario he’s having a “real life” conversation in the moment.  Here PW done a pre-recorded interview, probably with a few takes, maybe some answers re-worded during the process.  It’s then gone to an editing suite before being published on the website.  Not even remotely the same.

[FlyBritishMidland]

40 minutes ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said:

Never said that.

Not at the amount we got.  

If every penny counts you don't spend wages on someone who isn't going to feature.  No sane organisation would do it.

Why not.  A couple of weeks extra wages to get a higher transfer fee that outweighs the outlay in wages.  Seems insane to accept a lower fee.  On that basis all clubs would accept the first offer.  Plus, I think Knight himself said he wanted to take sometime to think about his future, which isn’t unreasonable.

[DiggerB]

14 hours ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said:

Did some training then whilst we waited 3 weeks for a mind blowing 60k after deductions.  I think Warnes a buffoon at public speaking and this jobs too big for him but that doesn't mine I don't like him or dislike him.  I don't know him .  I have also had a number of years in large financial negotiation, often trying to get blood from a stone to get things finalised.  I talk from experience.

Who was the job big enough for then? Who was available,  had considerable experience and success getting out of this division, was willing to drop a division and come into a club coming out of turmoil with a patchwork squad?
The reality is, none of us know what stage the deal was at when PW’s club-recorded video was authorised for release last week. But the reality is Knight was never playing Saturday, never getting on that plane and was probably 95% certain to be heading to Brizzle for a medical this week. Could it be possible the fee was already agreed but there was a request for the release of details to be delayed by either party?

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

2 minutes ago, FlyBritishMidland said:

Why not.  A couple of weeks extra wages to get a higher transfer fee that outweighs the outlay in wages.  Seems insane to accept a lower fee.  On that basis all clubs would accept the first offer.  Plus, I think Knight himself said he wanted to take sometime to think about his future, which isn’t unreasonable.

Go back to my original posts at the dawn of time regarding potential injury,  admin fees for process delay, missing out on other targets if we had been haggling over fee at such a small amount, if 1.7 had been the money they wanted.  Can't be arsed to type it again to be honest.

[BramcoteRam84]

Personally think this is a short sighted move from Jason. Bristol are a nothing club, always will be a nothing club and are not getting promoted any time soon. Whether he uses this as a stepping stone to a premier league move time will tell.

For us, £2m is a good deal considering we’re in League 1 and he only has a year left. He’s a good player and I think he has the potential to play in the premier league. However I expected him to absolutely boss league 1 last season and he didn’t, simple as that. Of the young players we have he’s the one I’m happiest to lose. Losing Cashin or Max Bird would be far more damaging, Sibley we still hope there is a player there and we simply wouldn’t get enough for him right now to justify selling him, may as well give him another shot to see if he can be the player we thought he would be.

I’d have preferred him to stay but Im happy with this deal.

[Macintosh]

Up to £1.75m the Bristol sports reporter says. When you add it all up, the fee just about covers his wages for his time and development at our club. Cashin, Sibley, Thompson and Bird must surely be next to be off elsewhere. Maybe gamble on them to be hot property in January if the manager/owner have a poker face, but I'm doubting that.

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

3 minutes ago, DiggerB said:

Who was the job big enough for then? Who was available,  had considerable experience and success getting out of this division, was willing to drop a division and come into a club coming out of turmoil with a patchwork squad?
The reality is, none of us know what stage the deal was at when PW’s club-recorded video was authorised for release last week. But the reality is Knight was never playing Saturday, never getting on that plane and was probably 95% certain to be heading to Brizzle for a medical this week. Could it be possible the fee was already agreed but there was a request for the release of details to be delayed by either party?

We didn't have a patchwork squad.  We had a side more than capable getting out of this division in my opinion once Rosenior and the relevant bodies had brought in the players they did.

According to Warne in his interview the deal wasn't finalised and Knight may stay if the deal wasn't finalised, but he thought it would happen. I'd take it from that no final fee was agreed.  

 

[DiggerB]

3 hours ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said:

At that point it was clear the club were still looking at the best offer they'd be getting.   Advising that the deal is almost there but not quite is never a good idea.  If I was the person negotiating and someone other than me, or part of that finance team, I would not be chuffed if Bob on reception started telling someone the deal you've offered isn't terrible and I can tell you your almost there.  I'll let them know you've called.

Was it? Doesn’t appear that was the case to several contributors on here. Unless you were party to the negotiations you’ve as much clue as the rest of us. 

[FlyBritishMidland]

6 minutes ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said:

Go back to my original posts at the dawn of time regarding potential injury,  admin fees for process delay, missing out on other targets if we had been haggling over fee at such a small amount, if 1.7 had been the money they wanted.  Can't be arsed to type it again to be honest.

I remember it.  But, simple maths, pay £30k (ish) in wages, get an extra £150k in transfer fee.  I suspect he would have been on lighter training as he was effectively a week further behind due to international duty.  Plus, the staff knew it was a matter time before he left and wouldn’t feature on Saturday.  He was at greater risk of getting injured playing for Ireland than training at Moor Farm.

And your “no sane organisation” comment about paying wages for someone who isn’t going to feature.  In that case you’d advocate that once some hands in their 1, 3, 6 or even 12 month notice they aren’t paid during this period because they won’t feature as no sane organisation would pay them??

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

Just now, DiggerB said:

Was it? Doesn’t appear that was the case to several contributors on here. Unless you were party to the negotiations you’ve as much clue as the rest of us. 

Yes it was

[Ram-Alf]

37 minutes ago, alram said:

we were never getting more than £2m

 

but as with any transfer fee the only relevant bit is what we spend it on, if we got £10m for him and wasted it on tosh then its irrelevant what we got

Now that would be taking the pi$$...he's 74 

[DiggerB]

10 minutes ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said:

We didn't have a patchwork squad.  We had a side more than capable getting out of this division in my opinion once Rosenior and the relevant bodies had brought in the players they did.

According to Warne in his interview the deal wasn't finalised and Knight may stay if the deal wasn't finalised, but he thought it would happen. I'd take it from that no final fee was agreed.  

 

Could it have been PW was bluffing?????

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

Just now, FlyBritishMidland said:

I remember it.  But, simple maths, pay £30k (ish) in wages, get an extra £150k in transfer fee.  I suspect he would have been on lighter training as he was effectively a week further behind due to international duty.  Plus, the staff knew it was a matter time before he left and wouldn’t feature on Saturday.  He was at greater risk of getting injured playing for Ireland than training at Moor Farm.

And your “no sane organisation” comment about paying wages for someone who isn’t going to feature.  In that case you’d advocate that once some hands in their 1, 3, 6 or even 12 month notice they aren’t paid during this period because they won’t feature as no sane organisation would pay them??

 If you handing in your notice, your still doing the same job till you leave.? 

No matter how you look it, if you know your selling a player, including them even in light training and waiting is a risk for this amount of money - 50-70k. During his time playing for Ireland he advised he wasn't sure what he was doing.  If the deal had been agreed at that stage it would have been very unlikely he'd have played with the agreement of all parties.

[DiggerB]

11 minutes ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said:

We didn't have a patchwork squad.  We had a side more than capable getting out of this division in my opinion once Rosenior and the relevant bodies had brought in the players they did.

According to Warne in his interview the deal wasn't finalised and Knight may stay if the deal wasn't finalised, but he thought it would happen. I'd take it from that no final fee was agreed.  

 

You didn’t answer my initial question. Who would you have appointed, given you don’t rate Warne?