Summer Rumour Mill

[DCFC1388]

Maybe Warne is frustrated because he has targets ready & lined up but needs the money from 2 players who are not willing to commit beyond this season. Warne has always said he wants players that want to be here, not signing a new indicates they dont really.

Maybe the incoming money will be used on players who will have a sell on value, someone like Nombe maybe. 

Warne has gone on record as saying he wants players in a decent age bracket as well as wanting pace throughout the team, which is exactly what every fan wants - maybe he just doesnt have enough money to get this without further sales.

On paper, everyone was buzzing with the Bradley signing, I still think he will come good. He missed a lot of games last season and appears to be needing more sharpness. Waggy & Washington both look decent at this level, Wilson has shown promise in spells & is young, majority rate Ward, similar to Bradley I think a lot of fans were happy to bring in Elder too (he wll end up being first choice LB/LWB), Nelson was a bit 50/50.  So for people to not rate Warne's signings I think is unfair, its still early doors to judge them, Warne knows what we need just like every fan, whether we have enough money to do it remains to be seen.

[tinman]

11 hours ago, valakari said:

Cashin is a really good player..but he hasn't improved since  Warne's been here...

He’s got worse since Warne came in. Along with most of the other players who are still here from when he joined. 
a manager is supposed to improve his players, not make them worse. 

[RoyMac5]

1 hour ago, DCFC1388 said:

Warne has gone on record as saying he wants players in a decent age bracket as well as wanting pace throughout the team, which is exactly what every fan wants - maybe he just doesnt have enough money to get this without further sales.

But what are his real priorities? How many of the 8 players signed does the 'decent age bracket' apply to? Why sign them all, couldn't we have picked up cheaper players if it's money that's the problem?

Perhaps it's how he's spent his budget, and that's the problem, an old fashioned way of looking at things maybe, you can't always go looking for a pay-day loan when you're spent up! 😄

Edited August 17, 2023 by RoyMac5

[Eoghan1884]

If we do sell both I really hope all permanent singings coming in are between 20-26. Some good players to be picked from league two and smaller league one clubs even if we can only spend modest fees.

[Sparkle]

1 hour ago, DCFC1388 said:

Maybe Warne is frustrated because he has targets ready & lined up but needs the money from 2 players who are not willing to commit beyond this season. Warne has always said he wants players that want to be here, not signing a new indicates they dont really.

Maybe the incoming money will be used on players who will have a sell on value, someone like Nombe maybe. 

Warne has gone on record as saying he wants players in a decent age bracket as well as wanting pace throughout the team, which is exactly what every fan wants - maybe he just doesnt have enough money to get this without further sales.

On paper, everyone was buzzing with the Bradley signing, I still think he will come good. He missed a lot of games last season and appears to be needing more sharpness. Waggy & Washington both look decent at this level, Wilson has shown promise in spells & is young, majority rate Ward, similar to Bradley I think a lot of fans were happy to bring in Elder too (he wll end up being first choice LB/LWB), Nelson was a bit 50/50.  So for people to not rate Warne's signings I think is unfair, its still early doors to judge them, Warne knows what we need just like every fan, whether we have enough money to do it remains to be seen.

Bigger question is why are players wanting to leave? Especially those that young? Especially those that currently have a value for sales? 
I think Ward is a decent signing and we needed another keeper whilst Waghorn will be very good at this level ( altough Warne had another preconceived idea about him which blights his judgement) the others I don’t rate as good players

[DCFC1388]

19 minutes ago, Sparkle said:

Bigger question is why are players wanting to leave? Especially those that young? Especially those that currently have a value for sales? 
I think Ward is a decent signing and we needed another keeper whilst Waghorn will be very good at this level ( altough Warne had another preconceived idea about him which blights his judgement) the others I don’t rate as good players

as mentioned on another thread, they're not wanting to commit beyond this year which is understandable as they don't want to play League 1, who can blame them. That means the club is in a position where they either keep a player who isnt going to stay unless we get promotion, or they cash in now if the price is right. The price for Knight reached the level we deemed acceptable & the same will apply to Bird & Cashin. It's not like the days of admin where we had to take what we could, we have rejected low bids for them both already

Edited August 17, 2023 by DCFC1388

[DCFC1388]

29 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

But what are his real priorities? How many of the 8 players signed does the 'decent age bracket' apply to? Why sign them all, couldn't we have picked up cheaper players if it's money that's the problem?

Perhaps it's how he's spent his budget, and that's the problem, an old fashioned way of looking at things maybe, you can't always go looking for a pay-day loan when you're spent up! 😄

we needed a lot of players due to the amount that left this summer, so maybe its a choice of 8 on 7k a week not all within ideal age range rather than 4 decent age profile players on 14k a week. Number for wages are hypothetical but i'm sure you get my point. This summer again it was we needed quantity not just quality, as mentioned all the 8 signings were welcomed except maybe Nelson.

Warne can't wait all summer for his priority players and miss out on the likes of Elder, Bradley, Washington who were clearly high on his list as well. The availability of the right priority players is needed too, most clubs at all levels seem to be struggling to bring a striker in, its taken Bayern all summer to get Kane but if they paid over the odds early doors they could have got him sooner, i'd rather we waiting too rather than pay over the odds.

I would be more concerned if Warne was saying something different to what the fans want but he isnt & he also isnt willing to spend money for the sake of it too which i'm happy about. 

Say we have 15k a week left of the budget & want 2 players....if both players want 9k a week we can only get 1 of them, so its about trying to utilise the remaining budget to get the best that we can. A sale (or two) will mean that budget might increase meaning we can then get both on 9k a week plus another 1 or 2 as well.

[Eoghan1884]

17 minutes ago, Sparkle said:

Bigger question is why are players wanting to leave? Especially those that young? Especially those that currently have a value for sales? 
I think Ward is a decent signing and we needed another keeper whilst Waghorn will be very good at this level ( altough Warne had another preconceived idea about him which blights his judgement) the others I don’t rate as good players

Birds case,

- Going to a coach that he likes and probably likes,

-  He will also be getting higher wages 

- Can’t risk stalling his career here if we don’t go up for another season or two

Cashins case,

- The pull of the premier league for a league one player must be near impossible to turn down

- Brighton are one of the most exciting clubs in Europe at developing players at the moment

- Also will get a great pay boost, aswell as Brighton being a nice place to live

Knight and Bielik both wanted to go to help there international careers aswell as playing at a higher level.

 

[DCFC1388]

9 minutes ago, Eoghan1884 said:

Birds case,

- Going to a coach that he likes and probably likes,

-  He will also be getting higher wages 

- Can’t risk stalling his career here if we don’t go up for another season or two

Cashins case,

- The pull of the premier league for a league one player must be near impossible to turn down

- Brighton are one of the most exciting clubs in Europe at developing players at the moment

- Also will get a great pay boost, aswell as Brighton being a nice place to live

Knight and Bielik both wanted to go to help there international careers aswell as playing at a higher level.

 

plus all 4 going into the last years of their contracts

[RoyMac5]

26 minutes ago, DCFC1388 said:

we needed a lot of players due to the amount that left this summer, so maybe its a choice of 8 on 7k a week not all within ideal age range rather than 4 decent age profile players on 14k a week. Number for wages are hypothetical but i'm sure you get my point. This summer again it was we needed quantity not just quality, as mentioned all the 8 signings were welcomed except maybe Nelson.

Warne can't wait all summer for his priority players and miss out on the likes of Elder, Bradley, Washington who were clearly high on his list as well.

Why were they on his list? Do we really have to pay £14k/week for players in Warnes preferred age range?

We could play Rooney and Tommo and Fozzy and Bardell and Robinson etc - he has chosen to sign a load of older age range players - who I think would be on the same wages as younger signings. 

And he was given a good budget - he has spent it as he has seen fit. 

[Guest]

30 minutes ago, Eoghan1884 said:

Birds case,

- Going to a coach that he likes and probably likes,

-  He will also be getting higher wages 

- Can’t risk stalling his career here if we don’t go up for another season or two

Cashins case,

- The pull of the premier league for a league one player must be near impossible to turn down

- Brighton are one of the most exciting clubs in Europe at developing players at the moment

- Also will get a great pay boost, aswell as Brighton being a nice place to live

Knight and Bielik both wanted to go to help there international careers aswell as playing at a higher level.

 

Assuming it's all true, then yes in the case of Bird, but realistically do you think Cashin is going to play for Brighton (any time soon/at all)?

He's already a good defender and can get better but, as other posters have said, Brighton own and loan a lot of players. Matt Clarke never played a game for Brighton (according to Wikipedia!) but he won our Player of the Year in the Championship. I think Cashin can do better than Clarke but that doesn't mean I think they're expecting him to be in their Premier League team - more like speculating and knowing there'll be demand for their asset in the short-term anyway regardless of whether he turns out to be good enough for their level.

[RadioactiveWaste]

Just a thought, but is the sticking point on bringing in any more players the wages rather than the any fees?

Like, we could do the move but only if the wage bill is first brought down by outgoings? In terms of the mythical business plan rather than having the pounds on not?

 

Edited August 17, 2023 by RadioactiveWaste

[Eoghan1884]

10 minutes ago, jameso said:

Assuming it's all true, then yes in the case of Bird, but realistically do you think Cashin is going to play for Brighton (any time soon/at all)?

He's already a good defender and can get better but, as other posters have said, Brighton own and loan a lot of players. Matt Clarke never played a game for Brighton (according to Wikipedia!) but he won our Player of the Year in the Championship. I think Cashin can do better than Clarke but that doesn't mean I think they're expecting him to be in their Premier League team - more like speculating and knowing there'll be demand for their asset in the short-term anyway regardless of whether he turns out to be good enough for their level.

I can’t imagine they’d sign him with an intention to never play him. I do think they would sign him on a long term deal maybe 5/6 years and loan him out for the next 2 seasons probably to St.Gilloise in Belgium and then to a high end championship team, or vice versa. They sign a lot of players and put them through a similar process. But regardless of if he’s ever going to play for them, the pull of a team playing in Europe probably has messed with Cashins head and who can blame him. 

Edited August 17, 2023 by Eoghan1884

[Thameram]

We are 1 year out of near extermination we have a EFL budget plan which won't we favourable to us regardless of what they say we all want better players to sign but at the moment we can't. 

We need to lose a few players that can't dominate this division and get some nastiness into our team we are way to nice 

 

[Guest]

23 minutes ago, Eoghan1884 said:

I can’t imagine they’d sign him with an intention to never play him. I do think they would sign him on a long term deal maybe 5/6 years and loan him out for the next 2 seasons probably to St.Gilloise in Belgium and then to a high end championship team, or vice versa. They sign a lot of players and put them through a similar process. But regardless of if he’s ever going to play for them, the pull of a team playing in Europe probably has messed with Cashins head and who can blame him. 

I don't disagree (except the part about Cashin's head as this appears to be more speculation not helped by post-match interview comments) but just to clarify, it's not that I think they'd sign him with no intention to play him. It's about expectation vs. speculation - they would see it that he has a lot of the right ingredients and could make it, but there's nothing lost if they take a punt on him because even if he never gets there (like Clarke and Hayden Roberts) they will get the opportunity to control his development through loan arrangements and will get revenue from that. It's a sensible business model from Brighton and retains the possibility of unearthing a gem who will make it from a collection of "possibles".

[RoyMac5]

40 minutes ago, RadioactiveWaste said:

Just a thought, but is the sticking point on bringing in any more players the wages rather than the any fees?

Like, we could do the move but only if the wage bill is first brought down by outgoings? In terms of the mythical business plan rather than having the pounds on not?

 

Why should the budget have to change?

[DCFC1388]

1 hour ago, RoyMac5 said:

Why were they on his list? Do we really have to pay £14k/week for players in Warnes preferred age range?

We could play Rooney and Tommo and Fozzy and Bardell and Robinson etc - he has chosen to sign a load of older age range players - who I think would be on the same wages as younger signings. 

And he was given a good budget - he has spent it as he has seen fit. 

I said the numbers were hypothetical and for players in that age bracket yeh their wage demands are probably higher or their transfer fee's will be. If you're referring to his signings and why they were on his list, maybe because he thinks they're good players & as i said already most fans were happy with the majority of the signings too. Just because they havent hit the ground running after 4 games it doesnt mean they're going to be bad signings forever. Better players & players in the mid 20s cost more money, not sure if you realise this but we are still under a business plan with the EFL.  

I have seen your recent posts and they all seem to be within your agenda against Warne and its all his fault that we havent got the players us fans & Warne himself wants and also that the new signings havent hit the ground running. You seem blind to the fact we have a business plan, youngsters running out of contract, a market where strikers in particular are hard to come by as well as trying to implement a new style with 8 new players. You may also find that Warne hasnt spent the it how he has seen fit, the money side is above his role as he has stated previously. If Thomas, Pearce & Clowes decide to pay more to get a player Warne wants through the door that is on them, not Warne.

If you think we could/should have started the season with Rooney, Thompson, Bardell & Robinson in the starting 11 instead of the new signings then thats up to you but I personally think that is ridiculous and if we had started with them I think most fans would have been unhappy with it as not 1 of them is good enough to start & with a fully fit squad none would even make the bench.

Edited August 17, 2023 by DCFC1388

[eddielewis]

6 minutes ago, jameso said:

I don't disagree (except the part about Cashin's head as this appears to be more speculation not helped by post-match interview comments) but just to clarify, it's not that I think they'd sign him with no intention to play him. It's about expectation vs. speculation - they would see it that he has a lot of the right ingredients and could make it, but there's nothing lost if they take a punt on him because even if he never gets there (like Clarke and Hayden Roberts) they will get the opportunity to control his development through loan arrangements and will get revenue from that. It's a sensible business model from Brighton and retains the possibility of unearthing a gem who will make it from a collection of "possibles".

To also add to that I think the biggest difference of Brighton's scouting talent stockpile is that they really seem to plan each loan and keep a close watch/relationship with the player. Mitoma for example was loaned out not only to gain his work permit points but loaned out to Union SG where the Belgium league is a hotbed of Japanese players where he could settle down easily. Brighton was the only club available to sign Caicedo because they were the only club to know his agent. They have a vastly more humane system than Chelsea's under the Roman era where they would just palm them off to Vitesse. It seems this year Brighton have a player loaned out in 6 different leagues in europe/UK which I guess gives them good excuse not only to look at that player but also the pool of talent in that country. I can imagine if what Percy is saying is right where they have bid multiple times then they clearly have a plan for him.

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, DCFC1388 said:

I said the numbers were hypothetical and for players in that age bracket yeh their wage demands are probably higher or their transfer fee's will be. If you're referring to his signings and why they were on his list, maybe because he thinks they're good players & as i said already most fans were happy with the majority of the signings too. Just because they havent hit the ground running after 4 games it doesnt mean they're going to be bad signings forever. Better players & players in the mid 20s cost more money, not sure if you realise this but we are still under a business plan with the EFL.  

I have seen your recent posts and they all seem to be within your agenda against Warne and its all his fault that we havent got the players us fans & Warne himself wants and also that the new signings havent hit the ground running. You seem blind to the fact we have a business plan, youngsters running out of contract, a market where strikers in particular are hard to come by as well as trying to implement a new style with 8 new players. You may also find that Warne hasnt spent the it how he has seen fit, the money side is above his role as he has stated previously. If Thomas, Pearce & Clowes decide to pay more to get a player Warne wants through the door that is on them, not Warne.

If you think we could/should have started the season with Rooney, Thompson, Bardell & Robinson in the starting 11 instead of the new signings then thats up to you but I personally think that is ridiculous and if we had started with them I think most fans would have been unhappy with it as not 1 of them is good enough to start & with a fully fit squad none would even make the bench.

I think your points are absolutely fair enough, but you don't think either Rooney or Thompson (or both) would make the bench in a fully fit squad? (Probably a difficult one to answer now that no-one has a clue what our best XI is!!)

[DCFC1388]

13 minutes ago, jameso said:

I think your points are absolutely fair enough, but you don't think either Rooney or Thompson (or both) would make the bench in a fully fit squad? (Probably a difficult one to answer now that no-one has a clue what our best XI is!!)

lets assume we bring in the 2 players Warne wants which is a CM & ST, I also think we will change formation to 4231/433 so lets go with this....

Wildsmith - Ward Bradley Cashin Elder - New Bird Hourihane - NML New Waghorn

Subs - Vickers, Nelson, Forsyth, Smith, Barkhuizen, Collins, Washington

So that would include Sibley & Wilson missing out so thats why I think neither Rooney or Thompson make our bench when its fully fit - if we didnt sign 2 new players then there would be space for Sibley & Wilson with Rooney & Thompson still missing out.

If Bird and/or Cashin go I think they will be replaced too so I have left them in the squad for the time being

Edited August 17, 2023 by DCFC1388