Career advice

[Leeds Ram]

15 hours ago, Ewe Ram said:

Nowadays a broader CV is more desirable. Branching out now and again is good. 
whatever you do, concentrate on what you can offer them. Just think what you’d enjoy and start looking there. It’s very true that if you do something you love you’ll never work a day in your life. 

Thanks for the advice I'll definitely take it on board ?

[Cisse]

As a older bloke my advice is follow your heart. I know you think you are already old at 29 but you have 40 years of work before you. The bigger pay doesn't usually fully compensate the work if it isn't your ideal job. Besides you can be pretty sure that with your background you will get a lot of chances in the future as long as you keep yourself open to different options. 

Don't stress too much on the fact that you don't have your life lined up until you are retiring. Things will change constantly and you should just enjoy all your achievements as you go and you have already achieved a lot.

[Leeds Ram]

14 hours ago, BaaLocks said:

Feel for you, sadly it doesn't get any easier as you go on. I'm a good few years past you and much of what you wrote resonates. What would I say? Keep shooting, if you don't you won't score. And when you don't score, do remember there are so many people out there the one thing it can't be is personal. But, above all else, go for what feels right. You won't see many headstones in the cemetery saying "wish I'd followed the company line'

Thanks for the advice I'll definitely keep it in mind ? I do have a habit of taking things personally but I am trying to work on that a little ?

[Leeds Ram]

11 hours ago, PistoldPete said:

I think you will definitely hit against an issue with your being in academia for so long, certainly with career oriented jobs as some employers may think you will not be committed to a new career after preferring academia until now. . If you really want to take step out of academia maybe consider a step back into a less well paid job, so then at least you may seem a grafter as well as clever. Truth is I don't really know , but good luck whatever  you do.   

Thanks for the advice I'll definitely take it on board ? This is something the career's advice team has hinted at in the past so will definitely have a think about it ?

[Leeds Ram]

11 hours ago, ariotofmyown said:

Interesting dilemma you have there @Leeds Ram. It's a shame acedemia isn't as paid as well as other industries, but I guess it's supply and demand.

For example, there definitely seems a shortage of data analysts around these days. Recently I've seen average junior data analysts with about 2 years experience move into more senior jobs on about 60k in London.

Ideally you would land into a well paid job that utilises your rich knowledge. But I definitely think your background could suit many roles, where the company is looking for diversity of experience.

Maybe look for a startup, where they just want intelligent people to cover lots of different activities. 

I work with a couple of people who were in Academia (the were in computer science) and they both seem to enjoy the pace and impact of a business, vs the often slowness of their previous positions.

Thanks for your post I really appreciate it ? Yeah, academia is slow in terms of task management. So, I'll always have a lot on my plate even post viva I've still got teaching, reviewing a paper, writing up a paper and a substantial marking load but you have weeks/months to do these things. I'll definitely keep what you've said in mind re start ups ?

[Leeds Ram]

4 hours ago, Dimmu said:

AH, the crossroads! Thwse pop up in your life ever so often. It can be damn stressful, yet the openness to possibilities can make it exciting as well. Are Oxford Scholastica or The Brilliant club using RMP profiles? If not, that could be helpful. It surely helped me and so much so that I went to certify myself to RMP coach as well. It's easier to make career decisions when you're better aware of your own needs, but obviously doing such profiles cost a bit.

I hope you can handle the stress of not having the clear path. It'll come clearer as long as you can give it some time. I'm having a bit different background but personally I took the approach of having multiple smaller income streams and it suits me perfectly as I'm interested in various different topics. If you're more of an idealist, I think the academia is very good option, but the key parts of it, teaching and research, can be done in business as well. For example big companies are paying some serious money for good researchers.

Good luck figuring out what to do and where! If you want to know more about RMP, check this one https://www.reissmotivationprofile.com/ and obvs I'll try to anwer if you have more questions.

Thanks for the post I really appreciate it ? I'll definitely have a look at the link and check it out ? 

[Leeds Ram]

14 minutes ago, Cisse said:

As a older bloke my advice is follow your heart. I know you think you are already old at 29 but you have 40 years of work before you. The bigger pay doesn't usually fully compensate the work if it isn't your ideal job. Besides you can be pretty sure that with your background you will get a lot of chances in the future as long as you keep yourself open to different options. 

Don't stress too much on the fact that you don't have your life lined up until you are retiring. Things will change constantly and you should just enjoy all your achievements as you go and you have already achieved a lot.

Thanks for the advice I really appreciate it ? I think one of the things am stressing about is i'm feeling boxed in already re job wise and commitment. I generally don't like being in-between stuff which is precisely why i took on a large teaching load this semester. But I'll definitely keep what you've said in mind when feeling stressed ?

[Crewton]

I've nothing practical to add from my personal experience to the excellent advice already proffered, except to say good luck. Changing career direction is often daunting (I know I'd have struggled at it myself if it had been necessary) but seeking out those who have done it successfully may be beneficial - perhaps through special interest groups on the likes of LinkedIn and social media generally?

[Ram-Alf]

12 hours ago, ariotofmyown said:

 

For example, there definitely seems a shortage of data analysts around these days. Recently I've seen average junior data analysts with about 2 years experience move into more senior jobs on about 60k in London.

 

This is what My Son does, Worked in London now works from home in Derby, He collects Data for the advertising industry, A customer will ask where is a good place to advertise their product...he then researches all forms of media outlets, Figures show the best outlet would be radio...the company then sells the info on.

This is for Leeds Ram...not sure how up to date it is...but looking costs nowt

https://www.totaljobs.com/jobs/data analyst?cid=SEA_BG_UK-TJ-DIS022-GEN--E|[B]_c_data analyst-employment-|JBT0029-GEN006-_data analyst employment_RL_RSA3&loc_interest=&loc_physical=41689&s_kwcid=AL!7101!10!77515740867326!77515791498475&ef_id=f60d6a3ba3bc18fe617909ae179907e6:G:s&msclkid=f60d6a3ba3bc18fe617909ae179907e6

[Boycie]

You’re not the only one who’s stayed in education as a kind of protection from the outside world of employment. But there’s a job out there for you and I wish you all the success in finding it mate.

[Leeds Ram]

23 hours ago, Crewton said:

I've nothing practical to add from my personal experience to the excellent advice already proffered, except to say good luck. Changing career direction is often daunting (I know I'd have struggled at it myself if it had been necessary) but seeking out those who have done it successfully may be beneficial - perhaps through special interest groups on the likes of LinkedIn and social media generally?

Thanks Crewton for the kind words I'll definitely take that on board ?

[Leeds Ram]

23 hours ago, Unlucky Alf said:

This is what My Son does, Worked in London now works from home in Derby, He collects Data for the advertising industry, A customer will ask where is a good place to advertise their product...he then researches all forms of media outlets, Figures show the best outlet would be radio...the company then sells the info on.

This is for Leeds Ram...not sure how up to date it is...but looking costs nowt

https://www.totaljobs.com/jobs/data analyst?cid=SEA_BG_UK-TJ-DIS022-GEN--E|[B]_c_data analyst-employment-|JBT0029-GEN006-_data analyst employment_RL_RSA3&loc_interest=&loc_physical=41689&s_kwcid=AL!7101!10!77515740867326!77515791498475&ef_id=f60d6a3ba3bc18fe617909ae179907e6:G:s&msclkid=f60d6a3ba3bc18fe617909ae179907e6

Quote

 

Thanks Unlucky alf I'll definitely look into this ? I really appreciate it ? 

[Leeds Ram]

22 hours ago, Boycie said:

You’re not the only one who’s stayed in education as a kind of protection from the outside world of employment. But there’s a job out there for you and I wish you all the success in finding it mate.

Thanks Boycie for the kind words ? 

[Day]

All to common this is. 

Heading into your 30's loaded with debt for all the fancy letters a University can offer, yet no idea what path to take.

Meanwhile the competition sat alongside you waiting to be interviewed have 10+ years working experience, which can be more valuable than the fancy letters that hold no real weight in the direction you decide to take.

All you have proven is to be intelligent in an interest, doesn't show you can be on your feet all day, grinding away, work well with others, reliable, punctual, all the things employers look for.

Not many people have the luxury of knowing exactly what career path to take, completing the studies and then walking into employment that pays well and everything you want is very rare.

I'm sure you remember Joe on here from years ago, he did all the Uni stuff, history if I remember correctly, ended up in a Sky call centre. A job which with all due respect, many can walk into with minimal GCSE's.

If I was you, I'd look at career advice, passing on your story to school leavers and making sure Uni is right for them.

[Boycie]

2 hours ago, David said:

All to common this is. 

Heading into your 30's loaded with debt for all the fancy letters a University can offer, yet no idea what path to take.

Meanwhile the competition sat alongside you waiting to be interviewed have 10+ years working experience, which can be more valuable than the fancy letters that hold no real weight in the direction you decide to take.

All you have proven is to be intelligent in an interest, doesn't show you can be on your feet all day, grinding away, work well with others, reliable, punctual, all the things employers look for.

Not many people have the luxury of knowing exactly what career path to take, completing the studies and then walking into employment that pays well and everything you want is very rare.

I'm sure you remember Joe on here from years ago, he did all the Uni stuff, history if I remember correctly, ended up in a Sky call centre. A job which with all due respect, many can walk into with minimal GCSE's.

If I was you, I'd look at career advice, passing on your story to school leavers and making sure Uni is right for them.

I think David ought to work as a University enrolment officer me.

[Day]

1 hour ago, Boycie said:

I think David ought to work as a University enrolment officer me.

Nah, been looking to see if I can get a degree in the life of Bruce Willis, specialising in the Die Hard movies

[therealhantsram]

On 10/12/2022 at 13:25, Leeds Ram said:

I know this may come across as totally random but am at a total crossroads career wise and am looking for advice. I've now finished education (BA, MA, PhD) in Politics with my specialism in Political Theory and Middle Eastern Studies. I've got 4 years tutoring behind me both at the University as well as with private organisations such as Oxford Scholastica and The Brilliant Club as well as presenting at a dozen conferences in the two years I was applying including  PSA and Brismes (considered leading conferences in my field of study).  My viva went really well and the external examiner said  my thesis as it was rich, original and inventive and he recommended I turn it into a monograph.  

However, I'm just totally unsure what to do now. Academia is the natural route for me but it is becoming hyper competitive defined by stagnant wages, very long hours and a total lack of security. During my PhD I've had to prioritise work that paid (despite this have written a book chapter and have 2 journal articles under review) so my cv is less hot on written material so that can be an uphill struggle. However, I've got no idea what to do outside of this field. I've been for a couple of interviews that I felt went really well but have been told no and felt that the only sticking point in the interview was the PhD itself. Additionally, moving fields at my age (29) means I'll be starting at the bottom as I've got 0 experience of working outside of academia.

So to finally get to the point I'm just wondering if anyone had any advice about what to do about all of this. I've got no clue as to what to do and it's really playing on my mind. Especially as my gf has almost finished her architecture degree and we'd like to move in together at some point soon so time is now becoming a factor as well. 

Someone mentioned GCHQ already, thats a possible for sure.

Look at the Foreign Office. 

Have a look at global charities. Is there a cause you are passionate about? Doesn't need to be one of the traditional British Charities either. I know someone who works for a Lebanese charity in the UK for instance.

The United Nations. They have locations all across the globe. Once you are in it's a great way to travel and see the world. A friend of my wife's works for the UN in Kenya and they have a wonderful lifestyle.

Academia - don't know how feasible this is, but maybe an academia job is a possibility, but in a different country could the pay be better?

If all else fails, take some time out to travel with your GF. I know it feels like you don't have time and you need to sort something out, but really 29 is no age. If you take a year to figure it all out on a working holiday it will be worth it. And you'll probably never have a better opportunity to do it either.

 

[Boycie]

6 hours ago, David said:

Nah, been looking to see if I can get a degree in the life of Bruce Willis, specialising in the Die Hard movies

Will you be moonlighting from your normal job?

[Tyler Durden]

On 10/12/2022 at 13:25, Leeds Ram said:

During my PhD I've had to prioritise work that paid (despite this have written a book chapter and have 2 journal articles under review) so my cv is less hot on written material so that can be an uphill struggle. However, I've got no idea what to do outside of this field. I've been for a couple of interviews that I felt went really well but have been told no and felt that the only sticking point in the interview was the PhD itself. Additionally, moving fields at my age (29) means I'll be starting at the bottom as I've got 0 experience of working outside of academia.

So to finally get to the point I'm just wondering if anyone had any advice about what to do about all of this. I've got no clue as to what to do and it's really playing on my mind. Especially as my gf has almost finished her architecture degree and we'd like to move in together at some point soon so time is now becoming a factor as well. 

Why do you think that you got turned down for two jobs because of your PhD? Unless you withheld that qualification from your CV then the interviewer would have known about it upfront so if it was that much of a deal breaker then they wouldn't have wasted their time interviewing someone whom they were never going to progress.

I've thought I've done well in interviews before and not gotten the job - did you ask the interviewer for feedback in either cases afterwards? Just bear in mind that regardless of how well you think you did there are sometimes better placed candidates whom you are competing against that also may have interviewed well.

Bear in mind as well if the interviewer isn't asking any really probing questions it can be just as much as a red flag as when they are asking quite uncomfortable ones - basically they've already decided at that point that they're not going to progress you and just going through the motions. 

If it was me I'd get a job - not just any random job ideally but a job as it's always easier to find another job when you're in one. It will also go some way to dispel potentially preconceived ideas some employer's may have about you being able to hold down a job given your length of time in Higher Education. Would also give you some thinking time too to decide what you do want to do ultimately. 

I wouldn't worry too much about changing fields at 29; if you were 49 then would have more of a factor but you've effectively got the majority of your working career infront of you. I've known people to take pay cuts in the knowledge that the new field they will be working in will have far greater earning potential in the long run than the one they're currently in. Try to consider the bigger picture.

[Leeds Ram]

18 hours ago, David said:

All to common this is. 

Heading into your 30's loaded with debt for all the fancy letters a University can offer, yet no idea what path to take.

Meanwhile the competition sat alongside you waiting to be interviewed have 10+ years working experience, which can be more valuable than the fancy letters that hold no real weight in the direction you decide to take.

All you have proven is to be intelligent in an interest, doesn't show you can be on your feet all day, grinding away, work well with others, reliable, punctual, all the things employers look for.

Not many people have the luxury of knowing exactly what career path to take, completing the studies and then walking into employment that pays well and everything you want is very rare.

I'm sure you remember Joe on here from years ago, he did all the Uni stuff, history if I remember correctly, ended up in a Sky call centre. A job which with all due respect, many can walk into with minimal GCSE's.

If I was you, I'd look at career advice, passing on your story to school leavers and making sure Uni is right for them.

Thanks for the advice david is much appreciated ? You are right the PhD doesn't grant me some of those things. I'm hoping my experience of teaching not just for the uni but outside organisations can help with convincing ppl i am reliable, punctual, and can get along well with others in a work environment. But yes, if i had not done any work and merely focused on the thesis this would obviously be a barrier especially given the solitary nature of PhD study. 

I do remember Joe. I believe he now works in an enrollment office at the Uni of Derby as we sometimes chat on twitter, if that is the same joe i am thinking of at least. 

I'll definitely look at career advice ? I do think university can be helpful, whether it was a wise choice made doing a PhD i guess time will tell. I made the decision to do my PhD right after my dad and grandad passed away, I basically finished my MA dissertation quickly post funeral and whacked in proposals within 2 months of that so it was perhaps a rushed decision to say the least.  It's been a tough 4 years (even if some aspects I have loved) and there is a large part of me that thinks i should have gotten onto the employment ladder as soon as i left my MA. My gf studies architecture at Edinburgh so she's very well placed for a good career at least so perhaps where a course specifically directs you into a field of work it is perhaps at its strongest for direction. Subjects such as politics or history leave you twisting in the wind somewhat post graduation.