Stive Pesley Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 11 hours ago, Carl Sagan said: When you view this in conjunction with our overall (ie not per capita) emissions, you'll understand it confirms the profound error of logic it is to believe, as JSO and XR claim to do, that what happens in the UK has any material impact on the global climate system. Given that Just Stop Oil's single issue is to ask the government to stop issuing new licenses for gas, oil and coal projects - and this morning the news is that the Government are doing the exact opposite and will issue 100s of new licenses (that's HUNDREDS) - i'm interested in the scientific logic that says whether this action will be a positive or a negative thing for climate change https://www.gov.uk/government/news/hundreds-of-new-north-sea-oil-and-gas-licences-to-boost-british-energy-independence-and-grow-the-economy-31-july-2023 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramarena Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 2 hours ago, Stive Pesley said: Given that Just Stop Oil's single issue is to ask the government to stop issuing new licenses for gas, oil and coal projects - and this morning the news is that the Government are doing the exact opposite and will issue 100s of new licenses (that's HUNDREDS) - i'm interested in the scientific logic that says whether this action will be a positive or a negative thing for climate change https://www.gov.uk/government/news/hundreds-of-new-north-sea-oil-and-gas-licences-to-boost-british-energy-independence-and-grow-the-economy-31-july-2023 The energy independence line is the biggest pile of horse poo going. Around 75% of our output goes straight to international markets, as we don’t have the refining capacity to deal with it. So it will have zero impact on energy independence. Will this be positive or negative for the environment? Well it certainly won’t be positive, it also may not be overly negative as people will use the same amount they used prior to this. What will happen is some money will come into the treasury in taxes and a whole heap of money will be made by big oil! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramarena Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 3 minutes ago, Ramarena said: The energy independence line is the biggest pile of horse poo going. Around 75% of our output goes straight to international markets, as we don’t have the refining capacity to deal with it. So it will have zero impact on energy independence. Will this be positive or negative for the environment? Well it certainly won’t be positive, it also may not be overly negative as people will use the same amount they used prior to this. What will happen is some money will come into the treasury in taxes and a whole heap of money will be made by big oil! Actually the only way you could turn this into more of a positive is increasing the windfall tax on the oil companies and ringfencing that income to be spent on climate initiatives and infrastructure going forwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 2 hours ago, Ramarena said: Actually the only way you could turn this into more of a positive is increasing the windfall tax on the oil companies and ringfencing that income to be spent on climate initiatives and infrastructure going forwards. I'd agree with that. Chances of it happening - I'd suggest zero, given the power of the fossil fuel industry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramarena Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Stive Pesley said: I'd agree with that. Chances of it happening - I'd suggest zero, given the power of the fossil fuel industry. Yep absolutely. Reading a bit more about this, something that isn't being mentioned is the timeline for these projects to start and then hit full production. They are being sold as a fix for the current situation, however..........North Sea projects have an average start up time of 5-7 years and reaching full production capacity can take 10 to 15 years. That isn't going to solve anything in the short to mid term for the country, even when it does finally come online most of it will be shipped straight out to international markets. Add in the fact that a hell of a lot will change between now and then in technology, the economy, political and environmental areas. The more you look at it, the more "political" this looks. Edited July 31, 2023 by Ramarena Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archied Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 7 hours ago, Stive Pesley said: Given that Just Stop Oil's single issue is to ask the government to stop issuing new licenses for gas, oil and coal projects - and this morning the news is that the Government are doing the exact opposite and will issue 100s of new licenses (that's HUNDREDS) - i'm interested in the scientific logic that says whether this action will be a positive or a negative thing for climate change https://www.gov.uk/government/news/hundreds-of-new-north-sea-oil-and-gas-licences-to-boost-british-energy-independence-and-grow-the-economy-31-july-2023 Good for the economy, sales of superglue and orange talcum powder have gone through the roof at Waitrose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dean (hick) Saunders Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 Won’t we still need oil for lubrication, plastics and any number of other things for ever? Wolfie and Carl Sagan 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archied Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 2 minutes ago, Dean (hick) Saunders said: Won’t we still need oil for lubrication, plastics and any number of other things for ever? Never thought of that , we don’t want them windmills going all squeaky on us ,worse than a builder with a squeaky wheel barrow😂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turk Thrust Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 5 minutes ago, Dean (hick) Saunders said: Won’t we still need oil for lubrication, plastics and any number of other things for ever? I’ve heard KY Jelly does the trick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archied Posted August 1, 2023 Share Posted August 1, 2023 Seen a few interviews recently and the new panic inducing phrase is being trotted out , GLOBAL BOILING,, it’s hilarious if it wasn’t so damaging img to the mental health of some vulnerable people who get drawn in to the world of anxiety, 1, the temperature is not boiling point 2, it’s not global , is England boiling ? Is Norway boiling ect ect ect🤷♂️ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfie Posted August 1, 2023 Share Posted August 1, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, Archied said: Seen a few interviews recently and the new panic inducing phrase is being trotted out , GLOBAL BOILING,, it’s hilarious if it wasn’t so damaging img to the mental health of some vulnerable people who get drawn in to the world of anxiety, 1, the temperature is not boiling point 2, it’s not global , is England boiling ? Is Norway boiling ect ect ect🤷♂️ That's weather, not climate. Basics. For what it's worth (and as a climate change believer), I think the "Global boiling" comment at the UN was a mistake. Even if it was made with the intent of making people open their eyes to the dangers - I fear it will just polarise the argument further. Edited August 1, 2023 by Wolfie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted August 1, 2023 Share Posted August 1, 2023 2 minutes ago, Wolfie said: I fear it will just polarise the argument further I think it will. By nature Humans only respond to imminent threats and because global warming is gradual, we're being split between those able to realise that the danger needs to be acted on now with urgency even though it doesn't instinctively feel imminent - and those who aren't However, as we've seen with some of the responses here - these tactics of trying to express the urgency are just shrugged off as scaremongering and therefore counter-productive. Leaves me pretty despondent as there will be no convincing these people until the effects are tangibly felt by them 😞 . ariotofmyown, Highgate, Wolfie and 2 others 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ariotofmyown Posted August 1, 2023 Share Posted August 1, 2023 4 hours ago, Stive Pesley said: I think it will. By nature Humans only respond to imminent threats and because global warming is gradual, we're being split between those able to realise that the danger needs to be acted on now with urgency even though it doesn't instinctively feel imminent - and those who aren't However, as we've seen with some of the responses here - these tactics of trying to express the urgency are just shrugged off as scaremongering and therefore counter-productive. Leaves me pretty despondent as there will be no convincing these people until the effects are tangibly felt by them 😞 . Just accept everyone is selfish and our species will mostly die out within 100 years through self inflicted climate catastrophe. Then the debate could be "let's try and save our species" vs "I don't really care about the future of our species, especially when it slightly inconveniences me". People looking after themselves is hardly a new thing. Expecting them to care about 3 or 4 generations time is a fantasy. Rev 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archied Posted August 1, 2023 Share Posted August 1, 2023 5 hours ago, Stive Pesley said: I think it will. By nature Humans only respond to imminent threats and because global warming is gradual, we're being split between those able to realise that the danger needs to be acted on now with urgency even though it doesn't instinctively feel imminent - and those who aren't However, as we've seen with some of the responses here - these tactics of trying to express the urgency are just shrugged off as scaremongering and therefore counter-productive. Leaves me pretty despondent as there will be no convincing these people until the effects are tangibly felt by them 😞 . Or it could turn out your wrong and it’s a massive over reaction going hand in hand with a political and corporate drive for more taxation and forced consumerism, it really makes me giggle how some just think they are in the right and those who question are just people who don’t get it 😂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archied Posted August 1, 2023 Share Posted August 1, 2023 40 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said: Just accept everyone is selfish and our species will mostly die out within 100 years through self inflicted climate catastrophe. Then the debate could be "let's try and save our species" vs "I don't really care about the future of our species, especially when it slightly inconveniences me". People looking after themselves is hardly a new thing. Expecting them to care about 3 or 4 generations time is a fantasy. Our species gone in 100 years is just barking mad 🤷♂️ Carl Sagan and Dean (hick) Saunders 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted August 1, 2023 Share Posted August 1, 2023 26 minutes ago, Archied said: Or it could turn out your wrong and it’s a massive over reaction going hand in hand with a political and corporate drive for more taxation and forced consumerism, it really makes me giggle how some just think they are in the right and those who question are just people who don’t get it 😂 I rest my case. GboroRam 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfie Posted August 1, 2023 Share Posted August 1, 2023 37 minutes ago, Archied said: Or it could turn out your wrong and it’s a massive over reaction going hand in hand with a political and corporate drive for more taxation and forced consumerism, it really makes me giggle how some just think they are in the right and those who question are just people who don’t get it 😂 Judging by your assertion above that it's a hoax because the UK is having a bit of cool weather, I would say that's exactly the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archied Posted August 1, 2023 Share Posted August 1, 2023 28 minutes ago, Stive Pesley said: I rest my case. You actually believe you’ve got one 😂😂😂😂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archied Posted August 1, 2023 Share Posted August 1, 2023 (edited) 31 minutes ago, Wolfie said: Judging by your assertion above that it's a hoax because the UK is having a bit of cool weather, I would say that's exactly the case. I’ve worked outside on roofs 6 days a week in the main for the last 36 years ,,, boiling the globe is not , though I can see how staying inside with the doors locked , curtains shut and full of anxiety watching the mainstream media one could swallow all this end of the world is nigh guff , jeez there’s so much out there that’s going to kill us 😂, but don’t worry our politicians and scientists and modellers can save us if we just spend spend spend and do as they say , it’s very much putting me in mind of why organised religion was devised and how it was used ,, fear fear fear , We can save you ,, yes please save us no matter what Edited August 1, 2023 by Archied Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted August 1, 2023 Share Posted August 1, 2023 21 minutes ago, Archied said: You actually believe you’ve got one 😂😂😂😂 Yes my only case in point was that views are entrenched and nothing will change a particular type of persons mind. As you proved. Repeatedly. You don't have to reply (again). I'm on holiday in 30 minutes so I won't read it even if you do. I get your point of view and I respect your right to it GboroRam 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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