Away Tickets - 2022/23

[Mucker1884]

4 minutes ago, Foreveram said:

Virtually every club ignores there own ground regulations for the easy option. No one complains about standing in the South stand, you know that’s going to happen. What David says is what used to happen, standing at the back, sitting at the front, but enforce it. Our biggest problem at the moment is that our allocations are selling out meaning if you’re not happy with your seat you can’t move somewhere else.

 

Oh, of course.  I'm fully aware who is ignoring who.
Hey, I'm probably coming across as a right fuddy-duddy... but it wasn't that long ago when I myself was glad that the rules weren't being enforced.  I chose my seat in the SE corner specifically for that very reason.  The strongest knees, and the biggest gob, second to back row, and second seat from the segregation netting (back when the away fans were in the South Stand).  I didn't sit down for one solitary minute, for at least 3 seasons either side of our 2007 PO semi win over Southampton.
Back then, the stewards still strolled up and down the stairs every 15mins or so, asking folk to sit down.  Didn't specifically affect me, as there were what, 20 seats or so(?) between the stewards/stairs and my seat... The wide netting stopping them from approaching me (and those around me) from the other (South Stand) side.

I have been there.  I have done that... But that doesn't make it right.
Had I been kicked out for persistent standing, I would have only had myself to blame... and would have been utterly embarrassed to have come on the internet complaining about it... as I was fully aware I was breaking the rules... constantly... game after game... for the best part of 5 seasons!  

 

I fully appreciate both sides of the argument, but the crux of the matter is... there are rules in place, and rule breakers should at least remain unsurprised, should they ultimately get punished!

We maketh our own beds... etc, etc...

[B4ev6is]

9 hours ago, angieram said:

Yep. got ours! 

We're on the side. Do you think we'll be sitting or standing? ?

 

 

 

 

Answers on a postcard, please! 

Standing

[DarkFruitsRam7]

Without wading into the debates over what's right or wrong, making everyone sit down at away games would reduce the atmosphere in the away end to a campfire sing along. Would be crap.

Edited December 15, 2022 by DarkFruitsRam7

[B4ev6is]

1 minute ago, DarkFruitsRam7 said:

Without wading into the debates over what's right or wrong, making everyone sit down at away games would reduce the atmosphere in the away end to a campfire sing along. Would be crap.

That's what I tried get that point to another person on this forum just get told that standing is not allowed.

[Mucker1884]

8 minutes ago, David said:

You don’t think they are already turning a blind eye given that the South stand at Pride Park remains standing for the full 90 minutes?

Not only that, the club also regularly use pictures of the away support stood up to thank them across social media channels.

No encouragement needed from my part. 

Rail seats will be installed at many clubs over the next few years, I would imagine these will be installed in away ends which will cause major issues between the sitters and standers. May as well but a system in place now where fans are familiar with what they are getting into when purchasing tickets.

Of course they are already turning a blind eye, as are many (all?) other clubs.  No denial of that from me.

But again I use the term "That doesn't make it right". 

Mr Clowes is at fault, for allowing the club to do so.  The football authorities are at fault, for allowing the club(s) to do so.  Those that sign off the stadium safety certificates are at fault for allowing the club(s) to do so.  And any individual... be that football supporter, man on the street, forum-frequenter, or doorstep survey responder... would be at fault, should they subsequently agree with, or encourage, such an approach.

Not at fault in my opinion.  Not at fault in a direct sense.  But at fault because "The Rules" dictate otherwise.  That is the whole point of rules! 

On a personal level, I acknowledge your encouragement will make no more difference to the current situation as my opposing ramblings on here.  Nobody cares.  Nobody will take a blind bit of notice.  This thread, and the postings written herein, will not make one jot of a difference!  

 

... But if things don't change... some time... one day... someone may well feel the need to cry "If only they (those in authority) had followed the rules, and not turned a blind eye, etc, etc..."

It may, of course, be too late by then!

 

[Mucker1884]

9 minutes ago, DarkFruitsRam7 said:

Without wading into the debates over what's right or wrong, making everyone sit down at away games would reduce the atmosphere in the away end to a campfire sing along. Would be crap.

Totally agree.
Had I been having this conversation at any stage up until around 10 years ago, I'd be encouraging somebody to do something about it.  I'd be all for returning to terrace and seating options, let alone safe standing.  Even the old Leppings Lane terrace could be constructed in such a way as to remain as safe as any seating area, given today's construction materials, methods, and design techniques.

As I'm having this conversation now, I'm not too fussed either way, (as it don't actually affect me personally) hence my comfortable stance at merely abiding by whatever rules are currently in place... or until such rules are changed, to suit the majority.   

[Mucker1884]

Hmmm... Angry face reactions now.

So which rules do we abide by, and which do we turn a blind eye to?

Which do we fight tooth and nail to get changed, and which do we merely shrug off with indifference?

Where do we draw the line?

Can I start vaping in my seat?  Take a beer up with me?  Can I ignore the no swearing sign, and the keep off the pitch hoarding?

 

Back at 05:20... sleep well, fellow Rams.  

?

 

[DarkFruitsRam7]

14 minutes ago, Mucker1884 said:

Can I start vaping in my seat?  Take a beer up with me?  Can I ignore the no swearing sign, and the keep off the pitch hoarding?

Yes. But I draw the line at people taking mars bars into Pride Park, which is a flagrant breach of the rules. We need to root out those yobs!

[ilkleyram]

5 hours ago, David said:

On the sitting v standing debate, it should be quite easy for the club to fix.

Most games we are selling out away allocations, makes little sense to release tickets by blocks, especially when you combine it with the priority system. If you are going to reward fans loyalty, don’t stick them away in the corner of the stand for wanting to buy the ticket early.

Have 2 categories, singing blocks and family/over 50s blocks.

The family/over 50s block should be seen by fans as seated blocks and a family friendly atmosphere. There would be no restrictions preventing a 25 year old fan that would prefer to sit as well from purchasing tickets in these blocks, however if you go in there and stand then expect to be told to sit your arse down by those around you.

Singing sections, expect to stand and hear the more fruity side of the English language.

The club would have someone word it better without actually advertising any blocks as standing which goes against the ground regulations. Rotate the blocks per game so one category is not always being given the best views.

No football fan should ever feel unable to attend away games for fear of feeling unsafe and unable to see the game, right now the club are doing a terrible job at ensuring fans don’t feel this way.

So many stories on here where older fans have had verbals off younger fans either in their seat, or refusing to sit down so they can see, not right at all. It’s a complete lottery of who you will find yourself among and that one game, that one coked up 18 year old could end the away travels of another fan.

Do better Derby.

As someone who prefers to stand wherever possible - I don’t at home because my seat is in the East Stand, but I do wherever I can away - I think your idea is a good one, once you’ve got around the problem of tacitly supporting standing against ground regulations. It is a significant problem though.

However you are wrong to blame Derby for the problem at away grounds. Derby don’t decide the order in which tickets are sold nor the blocks or seats that are open. Each home club do that. The EFL define the minimum number of seats on sale to away fans but if clubs want to increase that allocation they can, or reduce the allocation to the minimum (see our neighbours).
It might be that we, as a club, could try to persuade our opponents to sell their tickets in a different order and/or with subtle messages about who might want to sit where but if the home club refuse to do so - and it won’t be straightforward - then there’s not much Derby can do in practice.

[Will the Ram]

1 hour ago, DarkFruitsRam7 said:

Without wading into the debates over what's right or wrong, making everyone sit down at away games would reduce the atmosphere in the away end to a campfire sing along. Would be crap.

I disagree. I was in the “home end” area for the England v Germany match in September where everyone (else) was standing. The atmosphere was terrible. There were also blocks of standing at my visit to Man City this season and it was one of the worst atmospheres I’ve been in.
 

Standing does not mean a better/louder atmosphere.

Edited December 15, 2022 by Will the Ram

[DarkFruitsRam7]

Just now, Will the Ram said:

I disagree. I was in the “home end” area for the England v Germany match in September where everyone (else) was standing. The atmosphere was terrible. Same with my visit to Man City this season. Standing does not mean a better/louder atmosphere.

Two things I'd say to that:

1) Home ends almost always have less of an atmosphere than away ends.

2) I still strongly believe an away end where everyone sits down would generate much less noise than an away end where everyone stands up. There's obviously no way of proving it, but I'd bet a lot of money on it if there was.

[B4ev6is]

4 minutes ago, Will the Ram said:

I disagree. I was in the “home end” area for the England v Germany match in September where everyone (else) was standing. The atmosphere was terrible. Same with my visit to Man City this season. Standing does not mean a better/louder atmosphere.

Well I find it does my a better noise level when spoils total.

[i-Ram]

1 hour ago, DarkFruitsRam7 said:

Without wading into the debates over what's right or wrong, making everyone sit down at away games would reduce the atmosphere in the away end to a campfire sing along. Would be crap.

Give me Kumbaya any day of the week over songs about Stan Collymore’s choice of headwear.

[DarkFruitsRam7]

12 minutes ago, i-Ram said:

Give me Kumbaya any day of the week over songs about Stan Collymore’s choice of headwear.

Agreed.

[Mucker1884]

6 hours ago, DarkFruitsRam7 said:

Two things I'd say to that:

1) Home ends almost always have less of an atmosphere than away ends.

 

Only a small fraction of home fans will follow a rally cry to all gather in one stand to up the decibels. 
Preferred view, sitting with friends/family, nearest corner to the car park/approach to the stadium, avoiding the sun-in-eyes. The list is endless for home fans choosing where they sit/stand, so the atmosphere gets spread all around the stadium, and lessens the impact. 
Look how long it took the South Stand to get to the excellent noise levels it achieves today. 

Away fans all huddle together more often than not, by default. 

Plus, many fans are more in a party mood, when attending away games, so the same individual will likely sing more away than they do at home  

?

 

[Simmo’s left foot]

I think its clear that safe standing is the way forward, so at Derby the south stand should be safe standing, and advertised as such. The away corner could then be split half standing, half sitting. Then enforce the rules, persistent standers are warned, then removed. Simple.

The current situation where persistent standing is stopping people attending an away game, is surely just a matter of observing/enforcing the rules, and a level of courtesy to others. I agree, the clubs doing nothing is really no longer an option.

 

[Ram@Lincoln]

3 hours ago, Simmo’s left foot said:

I think its clear that safe standing is the way forward, so at Derby the south stand should be safe standing, and advertised as such. The away corner could then be split half standing, half sitting. Then enforce the rules, persistent standers are warned, then removed. Simple.

The current situation where persistent standing is stopping people attending an away game, is surely just a matter of observing/enforcing the rules, and a level of courtesy to others. I agree, the clubs doing nothing is really no longer an option.

 

I recall Nick Webster (@therams69 ) discussing the possibility of the club installing rail seats in the south stand in the early days of the project. I assume that Covid and the Mel Morris debacle curtailed those plans. From my own experience of rail seats at Anfield and the Etihad recently, it can be done very effectively. Just don't expect any leg room when you do come to sit down at half time or the like.  

[HorsforthRam]

There was something about the South Stand being too steep for a certain type of rail seat. Don’t see how it’s less safe than current standing situation ??‍♂️

On a different note, Bolton tickets have arrived via post ?

 

[sage]

2 hours ago, Ram@Lincoln said:

I recall Nick Webster (@therams69 ) discussing the possibility of the club installing rail seats in the south stand in the early days of the project. I assume that Covid and the Mel Morris debacle curtailed those plans. From my own experience of rail seats at Anfield and the Etihad recently, it can be done very effectively. Just don't expect any leg room when you do come to sit down at half time or the like.  

There is also an issue with exits if you increase the capacity. 

[B4ev6is]

6 hours ago, Simmo’s left foot said:

I think its clear that safe standing is the way forward, so at Derby the south stand should be safe standing, and advertised as such. The away corner could then be split half standing, half sitting. Then enforce the rules, persistent standers are warned, then removed. Simple.

The current situation where persistent standing is stopping people attending an away game, is surely just a matter of observing/enforcing the rules, and a level of courtesy to others. I agree, the clubs doing nothing is really no longer an option.

 

I have whole ground as safe standing if I could.