The Administration Thread

[LeedsCityRam]

Just now, PistoldPete said:

What Birch said was :

"As it stands the administrators of DCFC will need to provide the Board of the EFL with evidence that the club will meet its commitment to the competition for the 22/23 season (including an exit before March 2023) to avoid the club beginning the season but not completing it".

The bit in brackets is a killer. How do we show evidence that we will exit admin before March 2023? The only way is to find a buyer before season starts.  If we don't exit admin before March 2023 that's  breach of EFL poxy unwritten "rules" and they will expel us.  They don't want to do that mid season so they will do it  before season starts.

Yes, it will finally move this whole mess into an endgame as I don't believe Quantuma will be able to prove they could convince MSD to loan the club money for majority of 22/23 season. They have been content to lend money month to month whilst a deal was close but demonstrating that facility for 9 months is entirely different. Without that threat from the EFL, I fully believe this 'buying process' would continue to drift.

What we don't know is what that EFL deadline is but it will force Quantuma to accept the best offer on the table. I fully expect them to leave it to the last possible moment though.

[atherstoneram]

11 minutes ago, Caerphilly Ram said:

@angieram have the Supporters Groups been in touch with Q regarding raising funds recently? I know from your earlier reply they’re not exactly forthcoming with info about admin and takeover, which isn’t ideal but not much can be done as mentioned before regarding NDAs and GDPR, is it feasible to approach them with ideas for raising capital? If Q need to evidence funding for the season and the EFL are so keen to help us survive, can Q and EFL work out a mechanic for season tickets? Or half season tickets? I know gofundmes and the like were mentioned before, get them to do a commercial transaction of some sort instead, raffle off Rammie’s head/Rooney’s boxers/blades of grass….something that can go through the club’s “tills” to generate some funds with fans able to contribute directly in the current absence of match days/kits etc

Maybe raffle off a corporate box for a season or something. There must be other options to contribute to the funds the club needs other than more debt

I would have thought that whilst we are in administration any money raised will go towards servicing the debt.

[atherstoneram]

2 minutes ago, LeedsCityRam said:

Yes, it will finally move this whole mess into an endgame as I don't believe Quantuma will be able to prove they could convince MSD to loan the club money for majority of 22/23 season. They have been content to lend money month to month whilst a deal was close but demonstrating that facility for 9 months is entirely different. Without that threat from the EFL, I fully believe this 'buying process' would continue to drift.

What we don't know is what that EFL deadline is but it will force Quantuma to accept the best offer on the table. I fully expect them to leave it to the last possible moment though.

That is what people are not getting, if the best offer on the table doesn't meet the requirements of exiting administration then the administrators can't accept it.

[Crewton]

31 minutes ago, Phuket Ram said:

Exactly. Every loan comes from MSD and is secured against the stadium and leases. So the price for the stadium keeps increasing. 

Just a thought : the Administrators latest report said that the additional loans from MSD were secured by a Debenture (i.e a different form of security to the original £20m loan), so perhaps the additional funds are secured against the football club assets alone? 

[angieram]

6 minutes ago, Caerphilly Ram said:

@angieram have the Supporters Groups been in touch with Q regarding raising funds recently? I know from your earlier reply they’re not exactly forthcoming with info about admin and takeover, which isn’t ideal but not much can be done as mentioned before regarding NDAs and GDPR, is it feasible to approach them with ideas for raising capital? If Q need to evidence funding for the season and the EFL are so keen to help us survive, can Q and EFL work out a mechanic for season tickets? Or half season tickets? I know gofundmes and the like were mentioned before, get them to do a commercial transaction of some sort instead, raffle off Rammie’s head/Rooney’s boxers/blades of grass….something that can go through the club’s “tills” to generate some funds with fans able to contribute directly in the current absence of match days/kits etc

Maybe raffle off a corporate box for a season or something. There must be other options to contribute to the funds the club needs other than more debt

When asked the question previously on more than one occasion they have always been dead set against it. Their concern seems to be centred around what we as supporters would expect in return for such investment. 

I have felt angry with them ever since, because any attempts to involve the fan community in solutions has been pushed away as if only the 'great and the good' can decide Derby's fate.

I feel they have been patronising at best, and I could say a lot more.

RamsTrust has shared all responses they have had from the administrators. But Quantuma made their views on engagement clear a few months ago imo when they issued that statement about how much it was costing!

Please don't think that because I am on the EFL's side in this latest issue, that I think that they are any better, because I feel they have behaved appallingly as well. As have Mel Morris and potential purchasers. 

I am now rapidly coming to the conclusion that the sooner we get an independent regulator in to sort this shambles out, the better.

Too late to help Derby County out of our current predicament,  but desperately needed.

[Curtains]

1 minute ago, atherstoneram said:

That is what people are not getting, if the best offer on the table doesn't meet the requirements of exiting administration then the administrators can't accept it.

Got to be better than Liquidation though 

[atherstoneram]

1 minute ago, Curtains said:

Got to be better than Liquidation though 

But they don't have a choice, it is not an auction.

[alram]

i dont want to sound like the merchent for doom but it will be a rough week this coming week.

the fixtures are out, there will be guarenteed some drama around that.

pre season is starting for most clubs, so i think we will start to see a fair few players start to leave as the reality kicks in.

the only thing keeping me sane is rooney is still at the club

 

we are desperate for good news. there needs to be clarity of the preferred bidder

Edited June 19, 2022 by alram

[RoyMac5]

27 minutes ago, Curtains said:

Historically the EFL have caused all this allowing Boro and Wycombe to hold early bidders and Q and DCFC to ransom not to mention the fact they started all this with appealing amortisation and ground sale after Derby had been cleared by tribunal and not accepting that Covid 19 was an issue with no games etc. 

Maybe so, but who is it then and now/currently not willing to accept a low bid?

[REDCAR]

All I’d say is about the entire saga “patience is a virtue”

[angieram]

1 hour ago, G STAR RAM said:

'His' loans (meaning his other companies) loans to the club are included within the £70m.

The £123m that people keep going on about IS NOT, I repeat IS NOT a creditor of The Derby County Football Club, so I am sorry but you are factually incorrect and the amounts are not comparable at all.

Can you tell me what it is then GStar? Because it was definitely covered at the time when we were discussing going to play our football elsewhere as something that Mel Morris would demand if we did abandon Pride Park. I recall it was as an unsecured creditor because the actual cost of adding it to the club's debt at 25% would have been around £32 million.

If it wasn't a loan, what was it? Are you saying it was a different form of investment,  I seem to recall the word equity being used at the time? 

Are we arguing here about what is is called, or whether he could do it? 

[alram]

1 hour ago, G STAR RAM said:

'His' loans (meaning his other companies) loans to the club are included within the £70m.

The £123m that people keep going on about IS NOT, I repeat IS NOT a creditor of The Derby County Football Club, so I am sorry but you are factually incorrect and the amounts are not comparable at all.

yes it is.

 

mel is an unsecured creditor. he is writing off his loans as things stand, that could change if we wakes up and decides differently.

 

please dont talk about being factually incorrect when everything you have said is factually incorrect

[RoyMac5]

8 minutes ago, atherstoneram said:

But they don't have a choice, it is not an auction.

Why isn't it? It could be.

12 minutes ago, atherstoneram said:

That is what people are not getting, if the best offer on the table doesn't meet the requirements of exiting administration then the administrators can't accept it.

What are those conditions then? Are you saying that Appleby's bid doesn't meet them - or as is more likely it isn't enough for some!?

 

[inter politics]

I'm generally a positive person but the whole thing is thoroughly depressing

[TheresOnlyWanChope]

19 minutes ago, atherstoneram said:

That is what people are not getting, if the best offer on the table doesn't meet the requirements of exiting administration then the administrators can't accept it.

What’s the point in offering something that wouldn’t be adequate to exit administration? There will have been discussions that say X is the minimum needed or something similar. A buyer will have to pay creditors an acceptable amount in order to preserve Derby playing football. 

[atherstoneram]

2 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Why isn't it? It could be.

What are those conditions then? Are you saying that Appleby's bid doesn't meet them - or as is more likely it isn't enough for some!?

 

I've no idea whether Appleby's bid meets them or not, only the administrators know that but there is a legal minimal amount that the administrators can accept. If you go back and look at Quantama's statement from last Friday/Saturday (10th/11th) they stated that a bidder had not bid enough to meet the requirement for the club to exit administration

[Rammy03]

Is this ever going to get sorted

[atherstoneram]

3 minutes ago, TheresOnlyWanChope said:

What’s the point in offering something that wouldn’t be adequate to exit administration? There will have been discussions that say X is the minimum needed or something similar. A buyer will have to pay creditors an acceptable amount in order to preserve Derby playing football. 

The administrators won't have been in discussions with anyone to say what the minimum is, if they did that nobody would bid above it.

It is up to potential buyers to bid what they think it is worth but that may not be enough.

[Caerphilly Ram]

26 minutes ago, angieram said:

When asked the question previously on more than one occasion they have always been dead set against it. Their concern seems to be centred around what we as supporters would expect in return for such investment. 

I have felt angry with them ever since, because any attempts to involve the fan community in solutions has been pushed away as if only the 'great and the good' can decide Derby's fate.

I feel they have been patronising at best, and I could say a lot more.

RamsTrust has shared all responses they have had from the administrators. But Quantuma made their views on engagement clear a few months ago imo when they issued that statement about how much it was costing!

Please don't think that because I am on the EFL's side in this latest issue, that I think that they are any better, because I feel they have behaved appallingly as well. As have Mel Morris and potential purchasers. 

I am now rapidly coming to the conclusion that the sooner we get an independent regulator in to sort this shambles out, the better.

Too late to help Derby County out of our current predicament,  but desperately needed.

I know you’re on the only side that matters, that of Derby County and all the rams fans. Just asked you as I knew you’d have the insight to answer so thank you for doing so ? 

I can understand the frustration, there should be a way for us to contribute proactively for those with money who wish to do so. Q could write up T&Cs for a raffle for example that make it clear what the prize is, what the money generated will go towards and also a “what if” clause for if the club were to go under and the prize be null and void. I appreciate what another poster said about funds raised being redirected to service the debt but that isn’t what happened with money raised from tickets, merch, food and drink last season is it? So I wonder if there’s something within the admin rules that allow moneys generated through the business as an ongoing concern to continue being used as running costs.

Edited June 19, 2022 by Caerphilly Ram

[PistoldPete]

52 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

It's not the EFL this time, it's Q not being able to accept or want to accept low bids. Who stands to lose their money if there are only low bids - Mel and Q mostly!

Everyone loses from low bids, HMRC, creditors and of course the fans. Actually Q are high on the priority list of creditors, higher than HMRC. And as for Morris if he has agreed to sell PPS for the amout of the MSD loan how does Morris lose out from a low bid for the club? If the bids are so low that the club is liquidated and or expelled, then MSD exercise their charge on the stadium and he loses it anyway, and MSD get their money that way. How is he then worse off except for trashing his reputation even more?