Staying up this season would be a greater achievement than winning the English League title.

[Leeds Ram]

It would be a very considerable achievement. I personally can't see it happening though. Our form needs to go from bordering on relegation to close to top 6... it might happen but without substantial changes it's not going to occur. If Rooney manages it or even comes relatively close he'll have earned a shot next season in league 1 i think. 

[Ghost of Clough]

6 minutes ago, Leeds Ram said:

It would be a very considerable achievement. I personally can't see it happening though. Our form needs to go from bordering on relegation to close to top 6... it might happen but without substantial changes it's not going to occur. If Rooney manages it or even comes relatively close he'll have earned a shot next season in league 1 i think. 

If by that you mean 'pretty much midtable form' then I'll agree with you.

[Leeds Ram]

43 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

If by that you mean 'pretty much midtable form' then I'll agree with you.

I'd say 21 points from 18 games is closer to relegation form than mid-table really especially with 1 win in 8. 

[sage]

1 minute ago, Leeds Ram said:

I'd say 21 points from 18 games is closer to relegation form than mid-table really especially with 1 win in 8. 

We would be 18th, which is halfway between midtable and relegation. We are on schedule for 54 points. Good enough for 17th last season.

[Leeds Ram]

1 minute ago, sage said:

We would be 18th, which is halfway between midtable and relegation. We are on schedule for 54 points. Good enough for 17th last season.

Our form is probably in the middle ground between potential relegation and lower mid-table atm. If you take the points deduction reading had it would be 19th in the form table. I still think it's a massive ask considering we've still only won 4 games this season. 

[LeedsCityRam]

Just now, Leeds Ram said:

I'd say 21 points from 18 games is closer to relegation form than mid-table really especially with 1 win in 8. 

Not relegation form on results. 6 points clear of the drop zone & lost less than half the games the bottom 3 have/same as teams in playoff spots. If we could actually score goals regularly, we could finish top half (on results alone);

[Leeds Ram]

9 minutes ago, LeedsCityRam said:

Not relegation form on results. 6 points clear of the drop zone & lost less than half the games the bottom 3 have/same as teams in playoff spots. If we could actually score goals regularly, we could finish top half (on results alone);

I didn't say relegation form but closer to relegation form. It's difficult as it changes from season to season and we're still in a position where individual games do make a difference to the overall form. I'd still suggest that 1 win in 8 is closer to relegation form than mid-table.  

Edited November 23, 2021 by Leeds Ram

[sage]

9 minutes ago, Leeds Ram said:

Our form is probably in the middle ground between potential relegation and lower mid-table atm. If you take the points deduction reading had it would be 19th in the form table. I still think it's a massive ask considering we've still only won 4 games this season. 

We have to turn half of our draws into wins. The only way we can do this is to get a decent CF in January. 

[LeedsCityRam]

Just now, Leeds Ram said:

I didn't say relegation form but closer to relegation form. It's difficult as it changes from season to season and we're still in a position where individual games do make a difference to the overall form. I'd still suggest that 1 win in 8 is closer to relegation form than mid-table.  

It does indeed change but thats a reflection of the teams down there & how bad they are. As things stand we're 3 points from midtable (12th) but 6 points clear of 22nd so would disagree its closer to relegation form. Suspect 3rd from bottom will ultimately be very low 40s & Barnsley will struggle to clear 30 points.

Agree with your original statement by the way that we'd need top 6 form from here & that it almost certainly won't happen. A bit of hope no bad thing though to keep crowds high & players motivated ?

[Leeds Ram]

1 minute ago, sage said:

We have to turn half of our draws into wins. The only way we can do this is to get a decent CF in January. 

I've had a discussion about this before and disputed the idea that it's only a decent CF that we need. But in any case It'll take nothing short of a miracle at this point. 

[Leeds Ram]

1 minute ago, LeedsCityRam said:

It does indeed change but thats a reflection of the teams down there & how bad they are. As things stand we're 3 points from midtable (12th) but 6 points clear of 22nd so would disagree its closer to relegation form. Suspect 3rd from bottom will ultimately be very low 40s & Barnsley will struggle to clear 30 points.

Agree with your original statement by the way that we'd need top 6 form from here & that it almost certainly won't happen. A bit of hope no bad thing though to keep crowds high & players motivated ?

It's interesting as I'm kind of resting on the assumption that like last season we'll see 1 team pick up at some point and start rattling up the points to get to between 44-48 leaving the bottom 3 on 44-47.  Yeah, I think it's a monumental task that I personally can't see us beating it  but yes it's good to have hope and keep everyone motivated. 

[sage]

2 minutes ago, Leeds Ram said:

I've had a discussion about this before and disputed the idea that it's only a decent CF that we need. But in any case It'll take nothing short of a miracle at this point. 

oh a winger would be good too, but we need a goalscorer. 

[Sparkle]

If somehow we can beg or borrow two goal scorers in January we could be a different proposition - extremely difficult to do that but Rooney could persuade some of his mates to help us out - you never know 

[Leeds Ram]

Just now, sage said:

oh a winger would be good too, but we need a goalscorer. 

I think a lot of it is around chance creation. Our XG stats the last time I looked didn't put us in the form we needed to stay up. Now, there's  question as to whether a better striker would give us the impetus and ability to create better chances but I think in general our small squad and lack of quality compared to others and at times tactical issues are broader problems than a striker can solve. 

[Reggie Greenwood]

Just now, Sparkle said:

If somehow we can beg or borrow two goal scorers in January we could be a different proposition - extremely difficult to do that but Rooney could persuade some of his mates to help us out - you never know 

Ole is at a loose end now 

[Sparkle]

1 minute ago, Reggie Greenwood said:

Ole is at a loose end now 

Probably good enough as well 

[Rich84]

I agree we need better goalscoring options than we've seen, I'm not a fan of Baldock but needs must, but generally whilst our form needs to improve,  it is worth noting that:

Bielik hasn't had 1 minute on the pitch yet.

CKR has had the equivalent of a quarter of our game time.

Knight hasn't been on the pitch for half so far either.

Ok, none are the prolific goalscorer but the qualities they bring will increase the likelihood of us scoring more IMO, we saw it with Bielik last season, even if he doesn't have as big an impact this season he will undoubtedly improve us and allow us to play further up the pitch, as does CKR with his physicality and Knight (my motm Sunday) with his energy.

Not saying we will get out of this, but I do think we will make a good go of it, injuries, luck, even-handed refs and no fire-sale in Jan permitting 

[The Scarlet Pimpernel]

1 hour ago, LeedsCityRam said:

Not relegation form on results. 6 points clear of the drop zone & lost less than half the games the bottom 3 have/same as teams in playoff spots. If we could actually score goals regularly, we could finish top half (on results alone);

So, 6 points off relegation and 8 points off playoffs. 

[kevinhectoring]

With Bielik, and say 3 good loans in Jan, this team could deliver top 6 form. To say it would need a following wind is an understatement but we were top 6 class against Bournemouth. The thin squad has so far not been an issue, because we’ve had international breaks and no bad injuries. But in the months to come players will tire and we’re bound to lose a few - as things stand losing Curtis or Jags could be fatal.  Menghi would be a godsend, and maybe 3 at the back is what we need to reduce wear and tear on our heroic CBs. (Hopefully Jags will be here after Jan? ) Can Lawrence up his hit rate for good performances? Not going to bet on it but if he does we are much more potent (and many of us will eat our words about his captaincy). Bird looks more assured each outing, and Knight is increasing adding high quality to superhuman effort.  Who knows what sort of trajectory Thompson is on? Ebosele is a marvellous flying beast. One question: Rooney owns the dressing room - can he begin to dictate on the pitch? Another one : will one of our keepers secure the shirt and stop pissing goals away? The stars need to align. 

These are weird covid times and other clubs are short of cash. So January may be quiet overall. We need reinforcements and surely Rooney will call on his network for some favours. The historic stats about points needed for safety might not be the best guide this year. 

Look at it another way, we need to make up just over 0.5 points per game on the teams above us. As others have said, if we can find a streak of 4 or 5 victories, we make big big inroads. Yes it’s a long shot. But it’s certainly still on.

 
If we stay up, hope someone will arrange an open bus cavalcade round Middlesborough town centre ?

Edited November 23, 2021 by kevinhectoring