Rev Posted December 3, 2021 Share Posted December 3, 2021 IF we were to go under, the players would be worth nothing to the creditors, would they? Clubs only own the right to use those players for the duration of their contracts, which would be null and void upon liquidation, I'd have thought. r_wilcockson and jono 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crewton Posted December 3, 2021 Share Posted December 3, 2021 37 minutes ago, The Scarlet Pimpernel said: https://companycheck.co.uk/director/901400103/MR-MELVYN-MORRIS/summary Not worth much anymore according to this or have I got it wrong? That assessment is purely related to the value of the businesses he's involved with as a Director by the look of it - takes no account of personnel wealth? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maharan Posted December 3, 2021 Share Posted December 3, 2021 8 minutes ago, Rev said: IF we were to go under, the players would be worth nothing to the creditors, would they? Clubs only own the right to use those players for the duration of their contracts, which would be null and void upon liquidation, I'd have thought. Yeah, I think the administrators would need to sell them before the club was liquidated, otherwise they are free to move on for nowt. Rev 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jono Posted December 3, 2021 Share Posted December 3, 2021 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Rev said: IF we were to go under, the players would be worth nothing to the creditors, would they? Clubs only own the right to use those players for the duration of their contracts, which would be null and void upon liquidation, I'd have thought. Good point .. if wages aren’t paid on liquidation, their contracts are breached and they would be free to walk wouldn’t they ? . The only way players get sold is for cash flow to keep us going while the club continues to try and find a buyer. The HMRC could issue a winding up order but wind us up to get what exactly … not a lot .. so maybe in a perverse way this helps us settle rationally with HMRC. Hummmm. Don’t know if this is technically / legally correct, but it seems logical to me. ? You could almost see us stuttering along into February with player sales financing day to day cash needs ? Edited December 3, 2021 by jono r_wilcockson and Rev 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crewton Posted December 3, 2021 Share Posted December 3, 2021 29 minutes ago, Rev said: IF we were to go under, the players would be worth nothing to the creditors, would they? Clubs only own the right to use those players for the duration of their contracts, which would be null and void upon liquidation, I'd have thought. No, I think the players registrations, certainly those under 24, revert to the EFL in the case of liquidation, and they ensure that any clubs signing them pay compensation for them, which the EFL then distribute to (wait for it).... FOOTBALL CREDITORS! It's paid pro-rata p/£ according to the relative amounts owing. jono 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maharan Posted December 3, 2021 Share Posted December 3, 2021 1 minute ago, Crewton said: No, I think the players registrations, certainly those under 24, revert to the EFL in the case of liquidation, and they ensure that any clubs signing them pay compensation for them, which the EFL then distribute to (wait for it).... FOOTBALL CREDITORS! It's paid pro-rata p/£ according to the relative amounts owing. Ah okay, I stand corrected. I genuinely didn't know that. I'm guessing that the compensation can be just a nominal fee though? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta Posted December 3, 2021 Share Posted December 3, 2021 4 minutes ago, Maharan said: Ah okay, I stand corrected. I genuinely didn't know that. I'm guessing that the compensation can be just a nominal fee though? If the EFL are negotiating it then it could be absolutely anything. I'd be surprised if they didn't end up exchanging players for a nice pub lunch. jono 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i-Ram Posted December 3, 2021 Share Posted December 3, 2021 (edited) 43 minutes ago, Crewton said: That assessment is purely related to the value of the businesses he's involved with as a Director by the look of it - takes no account of personnel wealth? This. He may have shareholdings as a Business Angel in lots of companies. He may have a huge share portfolio being managed by a stockbroker. He may have a substantial portfolio of property assets. He may have cash in the Bahamas. He may have 12 vintage Lamborghini's in storage, and a yacht in San Marino. None of us know. All we do know is that he lost a lot of money, and then unfortunately his interest, with owning and managing DCFC. Edited December 3, 2021 by i-Ram Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ram-Alf Posted December 3, 2021 Share Posted December 3, 2021 3 hours ago, Reggie Greenwood said: Not not at all you are not one of them Reggie Greenwood and atherstoneram 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney1991 Posted December 3, 2021 Share Posted December 3, 2021 10 minutes ago, Crewton said: No, I think the players registrations, certainly those under 24, revert to the EFL in the case of liquidation, and they ensure that any clubs signing them pay compensation for them, which the EFL then distribute to (wait for it).... FOOTBALL CREDITORS! It's paid pro-rata p/£ according to the relative amounts owing. I’m guessing msd get first dibs on that then so hmrc in there case where are they going to get any money from the stadium and training ground doesn’t belong to the club. They will get a pittance back if we fold jono 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crewton Posted December 3, 2021 Share Posted December 3, 2021 10 minutes ago, Maharan said: Ah okay, I stand corrected. I genuinely didn't know that. I'm guessing that the compensation can be just a nominal fee though? I'm not sure about the size of the compensation payable but, yes, I imagine it's along the lines of what a Tribunal would set, not what the player's value would be on the open market with a couple of years contract remaining. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maharan Posted December 3, 2021 Share Posted December 3, 2021 12 minutes ago, JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta said: If the EFL are negotiating it then it could be absolutely anything. I'd be surprised if they didn't end up exchanging players for a nice pub lunch. Not gonna lie, I do like a good pub lunch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crewton Posted December 3, 2021 Share Posted December 3, 2021 12 minutes ago, i-Ram said: He may have shareholdings as a Business Angel in lots of companies. He may have a huge share portfolio being managed by a stockbroker. He may have a substantial portfolio of property assets. He may have cash in the Bahamas. He may have 12 vintage Lamborghini's in storage, and a yacht in San Marino. ?LETTING THE DAYS GO BY... ? TheSlate 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Scarlet Pimpernel Posted December 3, 2021 Share Posted December 3, 2021 17 minutes ago, i-Ram said: This. He may have shareholdings as a Business Angel in lots of companies. He may have a huge share portfolio being managed by a stockbroker. He may have a substantial portfolio of property assets. He may have cash in the Bahamas. He may have 12 vintage Lamborghini's in storage, and a yacht in San Marino. None of us know. All we do know is that he lost a lot of money, and then unfortunately his interest, with owning and managing DCFC. Or he may not. Just a thought! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crewton Posted December 3, 2021 Share Posted December 3, 2021 11 minutes ago, Barney1991 said: I’m guessing msd get first dibs on that then so hmrc in there case where are they going to get any money from the stadium and training ground doesn’t belong to the club. They will get a pittance back if we fold No, they don't, because on liquidation, the players cease to be contracted to the club and can in principle sign for anyone. The EFL regulations simply provide some guarantee that football creditors get some of the money due to them, because otherwise they're simply unsecured creditors if there's no Phoenix club wanting EFL approval. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev Posted December 3, 2021 Share Posted December 3, 2021 25 minutes ago, Crewton said: No, I think the players registrations, certainly those under 24, revert to the EFL in the case of liquidation, and they ensure that any clubs signing them pay compensation for them, which the EFL then distribute to (wait for it).... FOOTBALL CREDITORS! It's paid pro-rata p/£ according to the relative amounts owing. I've not seen that, thanks. It's a surprisingly sensible idea, for the EFL. Crewton 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Betty Swollocks Posted December 3, 2021 Share Posted December 3, 2021 49 minutes ago, Maharan said: Yeah, I think the administrators would need to sell them before the club was liquidated, otherwise they are free to move on for nowt. They would, but HMRC would get next to nothing as the players would be sold for nowhere near their market value and the Administrators get paid in full out of club funds and what is left would go to creditors, split % equally, so they would only get a % of next to nothing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i-Ram Posted December 3, 2021 Share Posted December 3, 2021 Just now, The Scarlet Pimpernel said: Or he may not. Just a thought! Oh yes; perhaps I wasn't making myself clear. He may not now have a pot to piss in. Does he still have a dwelling in Sandbanks? (by which I mean house not caravan) ? Mucker1884 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PistoldPete Posted December 3, 2021 Share Posted December 3, 2021 9 hours ago, Ambitious said: The HMRC generates over £600bn a year, therefore I honestly think people are putting too much emphasis on 'they would rather have something than nothing'. £30m (0.005% of their annual intake, roughly). I don't think they would miss the money at all, especially when any kind of amendment is likely to cause huge repercussions, particularly legally. It would be extremely high profile too, so I just don't see them negotiating the sum of money owed, obviously payment terms can also be massaged (such is life) but what is owed is going to be owed. This is one of those situations that bugs me, because the liability is with the vehicle and not the driver who ran up the debt. As far as I know Wigan only paid 25% to all non football creditors. Hmrc now has preferred status over some other creditors but there is no reason to expect they would necessarily get any better outcome from Derby’s administration than they did from Wigan’s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crewton Posted December 3, 2021 Share Posted December 3, 2021 1 minute ago, Rev said: I've not seen that, thanks. It's a surprisingly sensible idea, for the EFL. It's tucked away in the EFL rules handbook, somewhere in the section regarding Administration etc. Rev 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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