Alan Nixon Breaks Silence on American Billionaire Bid

[mike93rh]

9 hours ago, RAM1966 said:

I'm sorry but the way this club has been mismanaged so badly there should be a police investigation......  Starting with how a Championship club could be allowed to run up debts of nearly £30m to HMRC.....

I agree! I get the 12 point deduction rule being brought in as there was a flurry of clubs going into admin to cut their debts which shafted local suppliers and HMRC alike, and the league wanted to discourage that.

I think this is why fan representation on the board is so important, if we had people that cared about this club and not just the potential return on investment by gaining promotion, perhaps the alarm bells could've been ringing years ago over the state of our finances - with Pearce and Morris given the boot?

[Reggie Greenwood]

24 minutes ago, kevinhectoring said:

Yes sorry I half wrote my post and sent it by accident. My point is HMRC is the ‘plug’   We’re liquidated if the purchase price does not cover football creditors and 25% of unsecureds (and we know that MSD and the admins have to get paid in full).  So doesn’t all of the excess go to HMRC  ?

So what is there to debate with HMRC ? Maybe the admins say to HMRC, please take less so we can pay unsecureds more? It’s not obvious there are other variables 

Thought I read that the new owners could just take on the MSD payments or renegotiate terms with MSD if they wanted ? 

[BramcoteRam84]

1 hour ago, Reggie Greenwood said:

Tom Collomose or what ever his name be is the Mail North East Correspondent and he is Gibsons man 

He’s also a Derby fan. Genuinely. Remember he used to review sports headlines as a guest sometimes on talk sport breakfast. Wasn’t at the Mail then.

[RadioactiveWaste]

15 minutes ago, Reggie Greenwood said:

Thought I read that the new owners could just take on the MSD payments or renegotiate terms with MSD if they wanted ? 

I'd have thought that would be the case. The new owners have to take on the debts (or the agreed proportion) and will have to settle/service them in a formal agreement. That probably won't be "all paid up front"

[Hope you survive]

Bolton fan in peace and sincerely hoping you survive. Just a comment regarding HMRC from our experience. HMRC tried to have us wound up by issuing a winding-up order on a number of occasions, first occasion was £600k bill and that was resolved in court by our ex-owner (we think) writing a cheque. The second occasion was just before we went into Admin with a bill of ~£1.2m. We went to court a number of times as the search for a new owner was continuing (prior to Admin - which I think protects you from Winding up orders) eventually we went into Admin, as it was clear we couldn't clear that debt.

When the deal completed, as I understand it, pretty much our first cheque from the new owners, was to HMRC to settle the outstanding.

The situation was same with Bury, over much smaller amounts. HMRC issued a number of winding up orders.

It felt to us like HMRC were just dying to wind up a few football clubs, and in our case, there was no "dealing" with them, other than to find a way to pay and buying time through the Admin route.

 

Good luck with your fight - it's always the fans that suffer.

[TheresOnlyWanChope]

32 minutes ago, Curtains said:

Liquidation is a very last resort I totally agree 

Most people think it won’t come to that .

Maybe Mel will come to the rescue on that particular scenario 

Wouldn’t count on Mel coming to DCFCs rescue. All this is mainly his fault. 

[Curtains]

On a lighter note 

What do you call a Christmas Tree that does Kung Fu 

Spruce Lee

[RadioactiveWaste]

4 minutes ago, Hope you survive said:

Bolton fan in peace and sincerely hoping you survive. Just a comment regarding HMRC from our experience. HMRC tried to have us wound up by issuing a winding-up order on a number of occasions, first occasion was £600k bill and that was resolved in court by our ex-owner (we think) writing a cheque. The second occasion was just before we went into Admin with a bill of ~£1.2m. We went to court a number of times as the search for a new owner was continuing (prior to Admin - which I think protects you from Winding up orders) eventually we went into Admin, as it was clear we couldn't clear that debt.

When the deal completed, as I understand it, pretty much our first cheque from the new owners, was to HMRC to settle the outstanding.

The situation was same with Bury, over much smaller amounts. HMRC issued a number of winding up orders.

It felt to us like HMRC were just dying to wind up a few football clubs, and in our case, there was no "dealing" with them, other than to find a way to pay and buying time through the Admin route.

 

Good luck with your fight - it's always the fans that suffer.

Thanks for your kind words, we're not in a good place and the HMRC situation is a big one.

What happened to Bolton was very sad and I wish you all the best in working your way back.

Cheers

[Curtains]

8 minutes ago, Hope you survive said:

Bolton fan in peace and sincerely hoping you survive. Just a comment regarding HMRC from our experience. HMRC tried to have us wound up by issuing a winding-up order on a number of occasions, first occasion was £600k bill and that was resolved in court by our ex-owner (we think) writing a cheque. The second occasion was just before we went into Admin with a bill of ~£1.2m. We went to court a number of times as the search for a new owner was continuing (prior to Admin - which I think protects you from Winding up orders) eventually we went into Admin, as it was clear we couldn't clear that debt.

When the deal completed, as I understand it, pretty much our first cheque from the new owners, was to HMRC to settle the outstanding.

The situation was same with Bury, over much smaller amounts. HMRC issued a number of winding up orders.

It felt to us like HMRC were just dying to wind up a few football clubs, and in our case, there was no "dealing" with them, other than to find a way to pay and buying time through the Admin route.

 

Good luck with your fight - it's always the fans that suffer.

Thanks. 
All that at a time when HMRC would only get 25 percent as not preferred creditors 

Big Sam did a great job at Bolton but it all ended badly 

Glad to see you are doing much better now 

Edited December 2, 2021 by Curtains
Added

[GadFly]

Forgive my possible stupidity, but perhaps somebody can enlighten me... 

If we owe 30 odd million in unpaid monies to HMRC... why should they write that money off/reduce the debt? I'm looking for answers that don't resort to whataboutery please. I'm not interested in "well Amazon/Starbucks/whoever don't pay their taxes so why should we?" or anything like that (I mean, for starters, two wrongs don't make a right...). What I want to know is - from the perspective of a non-Rams-supporting everyday taxpayer, why should their tax money be used to prop up a football club that they have no association with, and couldn't care less if it went out of existence? Wouldn't that money be better spent on education or healthcare? Why should any of us continue to play fair and pay our fair share, if DCFC won't/don't? 

Surely if you're going to advocate and hope for DCFC to have their unpaid taxes ignored, then you cannot ever take a moral position against any other corporation not paying their taxes, ever again? 

If I've got this completely wrapped around my neck then I do apologise, but I'd also like to understand the situation a little better so please don't go too hard on me if I'm just being dumb - enlighten me instead! ?

[Hope you survive]

Aye we were more worried about the HMRC bit as fans as it felt like there was absolutely no negotiating room, rather than the much larger amounts owed elsewhere that the Admins strike a deal with creditors on - on a side note, Andrew Hoskings was Admin for our hotel sale (which was dealt with separately from the Football Club sale, by different admins). Maybe that's a good sign ?

[TheresOnlyWanChope]

2 minutes ago, GadFly said:

Forgive my possible stupidity, but perhaps somebody can enlighten me... 

If we owe 30 odd million in unpaid monies to HMRC... why should they write that money off/reduce the debt? I'm looking for answers that don't resort to whataboutery please. I'm not interested in "well Amazon/Starbucks/whoever don't pay their taxes so why should we?" or anything like that (I mean, for starters, two wrongs don't make a right...). What I want to know is - from the perspective of a non-Rams-supporting everyday taxpayer, why should their tax money be used to prop up a football club that they have no association with, and couldn't care less if it went out of existence? Wouldn't that money be better spent on education or healthcare? Why should any of us continue to play fair and pay our fair share, if DCFC won't/don't? 

Surely if you're going to advocate and hope for DCFC to have their unpaid taxes ignored, then you cannot ever take a moral position against any other corporation not paying their taxes, ever again? 

If I've got this completely wrapped around my neck then I do apologise, but I'd also like to understand the situation a little better so please don't go too hard on me if I'm just being dumb - enlighten me instead! ?

They won’t get their money if DCFC don’t exist anymore so maybe they will accept less. However this might set a precedent so maybe they won’t accept less- as per that article mentioned previously. 

[GadFly]

2 minutes ago, TheresOnlyWanChope said:

They won’t get their money if DCFC don’t exist anymore so maybe they will accept less. However this might set a precedent so maybe they won’t accept less- as per that article mentioned previously. 

Yeah but by writing off the debt they won't get their money even if DCFC do exist...? So again, from the perspective of your average taxpaying Brit, I don't see how it can be justified to just write off 30 million quid and allow the club to just crack on operating as if nothing happened.

Surely the sensible and fair thing to do would be to create some kind of manageable payment plan, where the club pays back the money over a longer period of time?   

[TheresOnlyWanChope]

2 minutes ago, GadFly said:

Yeah but by writing off the debt they won't get their money even if DCFC do exist...? So again, from the perspective of your average taxpaying Brit, I don't see how it can be justified to just write off 30 million quid and allow the club to just crack on operating as if nothing happened.

Surely the sensible and fair thing to do would be to create some kind of manageable payment plan, where the club pays back the money over a longer period of time?   

Oh, I get you. It’s unlikely to be written off surely. Reduced or payment plan as you say but written off? Can’t see that. 

[derby8]

1 hour ago, Elwood P Dowd said:

Where would the profits come from the repay the investors, if were were liquidated we would loose our league status we couldnt be a PLC as we have no assets and no history of making any profits, every one knows that to make a small fortune in football, you have to start with a large fourtune? 

Generally agree with your final point. Was looking for a company, consortium or otherwise pooled ownership arrangement to spread the risk since there doesn't appear to be a very wealthy individual among the prospective buyers.

Could envisage them dangling a pot of money in front of the administrators and asking for PP freehold (not the training ground which I understand has always been leased/rented),  HMRC deal, MSD deal, other creditors deal, a one stop shop to tie up all aspects for a cash sum.

[GadFly]

2 minutes ago, TheresOnlyWanChope said:

Oh, I get you. It’s unlikely to be written off surely. Reduced or payment plan as you say but written off? Can’t see that. 

Even reduced seems a bit unethical to me when I try to view the situation through a neutral lens. The club should pay their taxes in full IMO, even if it takes a lot longer than it would under normal circumstances. 

[TheresOnlyWanChope]

Just now, GadFly said:

Even reduced seems a bit unethical to me when I try to view the situation through a neutral lens. The club should pay their taxes in full IMO, even if it takes a lot longer than it would under normal circumstances. 

I agree but maybe there will be no buyer with such a high debt. Which means liquidation. Maybe a pre requisite for these buyers is that the debt is reduced.

[PistoldPete]

31 minutes ago, Hope you survive said:

Bolton fan in peace and sincerely hoping you survive. Just a comment regarding HMRC from our experience. HMRC tried to have us wound up by issuing a winding-up order on a number of occasions, first occasion was £600k bill and that was resolved in court by our ex-owner (we think) writing a cheque. The second occasion was just before we went into Admin with a bill of ~£1.2m. We went to court a number of times as the search for a new owner was continuing (prior to Admin - which I think protects you from Winding up orders) eventually we went into Admin, as it was clear we couldn't clear that debt.

When the deal completed, as I understand it, pretty much our first cheque from the new owners, was to HMRC to settle the outstanding.

The situation was same with Bury, over much smaller amounts. HMRC issued a number of winding up orders.

It felt to us like HMRC were just dying to wind up a few football clubs, and in our case, there was no "dealing" with them, other than to find a way to pay and buying time through the Admin route.

 

Good luck with your fight - it's always the fans that suffer.

Thanks for your good wishes. Was the cheque to HMRC for the full amount they wanted or for a p in the £ payment.?

[derby8]

8 minutes ago, derby8 said:

Generally agree with your final point. Was looking for a company, consortium or otherwise pooled ownership arrangement to spread the risk since there doesn't appear to be a very wealthy individual among the prospective buyers.

Could envisage them dangling a pot of money in front of the administrators and asking for PP freehold (not the training ground which I understand has always been leased/rented),  HMRC deal, MSD deal, other creditors deal, a one stop shop to tie up all aspects for a cash sum.

The $64,000 question is how much for the freehold plus a clean slate on debts, say £25m...

[Sidd10]

How is Mel Morris not under some sort of criminal investigation for this? What an utter disgrace.