Superman

[Comrade 86]

3 hours ago, Stive Pesley said:

...they said "well of course but it was illegal, so they couldn't ever admit it to anyone"

I guess some of the older generations want to go back to that era of just never mentioning it 

Wasn't decriminalised until the late 60s. Up to that point, it was chemical castration or a custodial sentence a la Alan Turing. Likewise, the illegality of rape within marriage was not laid out explicitly until the Sexual Offences Act of 2003.

In so much, it's probably a good thing that these decisions are addressed by each 'current' generation and not our elders.  It's not an agenda, it's progress, pure and simple. For me, the agenda is trying to pretend homosexuality is not a thing. Thankfully, kids these days are a lot more switched on than some acknowledge. 

[maxjam]

Of course its agenda driven, they even say so;

'The idea of replacing Clark Kent with another straight white savior felt like a missed opportunity'

'Kent’s sexuality is not the only way in which the character has been updated for a new audience and time. Recent issues have seen him protesting against the deportation of refugees, stopping a high school shooting and trying to put out wildfires that were the cause of the climate crisis.'

https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2021/oct/11/superman-bisexual-dc-comics

Updating characters for a new audience always sets the alarm bells ringing.  Does anybody really care if you have a gay couple living across the road these days or whether you've been to a lesbian wedding or not?  Maybe a tiny, tiny minority but as far as I can tell virtually everyone else is to busy living their own lives to concern themselves with the business of others.  Live and let live n all that. 

I think what the modern left do is try conflate being homophobic in real life with people having their favourite shows ruined.  Numerous shows have submitted to the twitterati, gone woke and gone broke.  Do comic book readers want gay storylines and heroes protesting against deportation of refugees etc or do they want them fighting megalomaniacs and space aliens etc?  How did Dr Whos ratings go after the series took to following politically correct stories for example?

A footballing analagy would be the EFL finally getting their way and liquidating us then telling us to go watch Forest instead - its football, its the same division, what are you - bigots?

Personally I don't think its the far right that shout loudest when changes happen but genuine fans of the show that see their favourite characters rewritten for a new audience.  Stuff the legions of fans these characters have - yeah we'll take the money and adulation they have given us over the years/decades, but they can all get lost now, lets reinvent the character and the storylines for a modern audience.  A modern audience that typically has no brand loyalty and have all moved onto the next thing to moan about anyway.

[Eddie]

Speaking as a gay superhero, I'm all in favour of it.

[GboroRam]

Hmm. Why is it the people who complain about the number of snowflakes there are around, end up sounding like the snowflakes they keep complaining about?

[Anon]

The only thing more pathetic than adults who still like superheroes is adults who cream themselves because they approve of what flavor genitals superheroes prefer.

[Comrade 86]

16 minutes ago, Anon said:

The only thing more pathetic than adults who still like superheroes is adults who cream themselves because they approve of what flavor genitals superheroes prefer.

*flavour

Hadn't really considered the taste of Superman's nads to be honest. Still, whatever floats you boat old bean ?

[TigerTedd]

3 hours ago, maxjam said:

Of course its agenda driven, they even say so;

'The idea of replacing Clark Kent with another straight white savior felt like a missed opportunity'

'Kent’s sexuality is not the only way in which the character has been updated for a new audience and time. Recent issues have seen him protesting against the deportation of refugees, stopping a high school shooting and trying to put out wildfires that were the cause of the climate crisis.'

https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2021/oct/11/superman-bisexual-dc-comics

Updating characters for a new audience always sets the alarm bells ringing.  Does anybody really care if you have a gay couple living across the road these days or whether you've been to a lesbian wedding or not?  Maybe a tiny, tiny minority but as far as I can tell virtually everyone else is to busy living their own lives to concern themselves with the business of others.  Live and let live n all that. 

I think what the modern left do is try conflate being homophobic in real life with people having their favourite shows ruined.  Numerous shows have submitted to the twitterati, gone woke and gone broke.  Do comic book readers want gay storylines and heroes protesting against deportation of refugees etc or do they want them fighting megalomaniacs and space aliens etc?  How did Dr Whos ratings go after the series took to following politically correct stories for example?

A footballing analagy would be the EFL finally getting their way and liquidating us then telling us to go watch Forest instead - its football, its the same division, what are you - bigots?

Personally I don't think its the far right that shout loudest when changes happen but genuine fans of the show that see their favourite characters rewritten for a new audience.  Stuff the legions of fans these characters have - yeah we'll take the money and adulation they have given us over the years/decades, but they can all get lost now, lets reinvent the character and the storylines for a modern audience.  A modern audience that typically has no brand loyalty and have all moved onto the next thing to moan about anyway.

Exactly, and why do football players always insist on taking the knee before matches. I’m not a racist, and I don’t know any racists, so racism has already been eradicated. So why are they shoving their colour down my throat? Why can’t they just live and let live? 

The best superhero was Hank Pym when he was beating up the wasp, I was outraged. God knows why they changed his characterisation in the MCU to pander to the snowflakes. And don’t get me started on that pathetically pandering black panther. A few good old fashioned 60s sensibilities never hurt anyone. 

[maxjam]

2 hours ago, GboroRam said:

Hmm. Why is it the people who complain about the number of snowflakes there are around, end up sounding like the snowflakes they keep complaining about?

So rather than debate the topic you question the mentality of the poster?  Some would consider that a mild attempt at trolling, but I'm not a moderator.

[maxjam]

10 minutes ago, TigerTedd said:

Exactly, and why do football players always insist on taking the knee before matches. I’m not a racist, and I don’t know any racists, so racism has already been eradicated. So why are they shoving their colour down my throat? Why can’t they just live and let live? 

Isn't that a false equivalence?   

Players taking the knee has no effect on the the match - it is the same regardless.  Whereas making characters gay because 'The idea of replacing Clark Kent with another straight white savior felt like a missed opportunity' and making him 'protest deportation of refugees' rather than fight space aliens or whatever he does is a huge departure from the character fans grew to love. 

 

[Anon]

4 hours ago, maxjam said:

Of course its agenda driven, they even say so;

'The idea of replacing Clark Kent with another straight white savior felt like a missed opportunity'

'Kent’s sexuality is not the only way in which the character has been updated for a new audience and time. Recent issues have seen him protesting against the deportation of refugees, stopping a high school shooting and trying to put out wildfires that were the cause of the climate crisis.'

https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2021/oct/11/superman-bisexual-dc-comics

Updating characters for a new audience always sets the alarm bells ringing.  Does anybody really care if you have a gay couple living across the road these days or whether you've been to a lesbian wedding or not?  Maybe a tiny, tiny minority but as far as I can tell virtually everyone else is to busy living their own lives to concern themselves with the business of others.  Live and let live n all that. 

I think what the modern left do is try conflate being homophobic in real life with people having their favourite shows ruined.  Numerous shows have submitted to the twitterati, gone woke and gone broke.  Do comic book readers want gay storylines and heroes protesting against deportation of refugees etc or do they want them fighting megalomaniacs and space aliens etc?  How did Dr Whos ratings go after the series took to following politically correct stories for example?

A footballing analagy would be the EFL finally getting their way and liquidating us then telling us to go watch Forest instead - its football, its the same division, what are you - bigots?

Personally I don't think its the far right that shout loudest when changes happen but genuine fans of the show that see their favourite characters rewritten for a new audience.  Stuff the legions of fans these characters have - yeah we'll take the money and adulation they have given us over the years/decades, but they can all get lost now, lets reinvent the character and the storylines for a modern audience.  A modern audience that typically has no brand loyalty and have all moved onto the next thing to moan about anyway.

This isn't anyone's favourite show/book though, it's a new run. From what I understand this book isn't about Superman, but Superman's son. It isn't retconning anything from Superman (other than him now possibly having gay sperm). Do comic book readers want gay storylines? The sales figures suggest not, but the sales figures for the industry in general are abysmal. Which came first though? The trans-rooster or the gender nonconforming egg? Is the current state of the comic industry due to agenda pushing from hack writers or is the agenda pushing a desperate attempt by a dying industry to remain relevant?

[TigerTedd]

1 hour ago, maxjam said:

Isn't that a false equivalence?   

Players taking the knee has no effect on the the match - it is the same regardless.  Whereas making characters gay because 'The idea of replacing Clark Kent with another straight white savior felt like a missed opportunity' and making him 'protest deportation of refugees' rather than fight space aliens or whatever he does is a huge departure from the character fans grew to love. 

 

Which fans grew to live him though. The ones that read him in the 40s and 50s?

Comic books are for kids. Grown ups might read them and enjoy them, but they are for kids. If a few old men are out out because the book they read when they were a kid has changed with the times, but their kids live it, then those old men aren’t getting the point. 

it was like the backlash to the Star Wars prequels. Everyone hated jar jar binks. But my kids loved him. Star Wars is a kids movie. The people who hated the prequels were kids when they watched and fell in love with the originals. Star Wars is for kids, first and foremost. 

comic books and super heroes are for kids, first and foremost. Older readers need to either grow up and stop reading them, or accept that they might change with the times. 

don’t forget this is superman’s son. It’s not the og superman. He’s still straight as an arrow. But this was a chance to reboot superman for a new generation. Hence it would have been a missed opportunity to just have more of the same, and not use this reboot to better represent the youth reading it. 

Also, don’t forget, superman is not real. He’s a creation. He’s a product of his creators imaginations and he’s whatever they want him to be. Maybe the creator or one of the creative team has a bisexual son, and wants to show positive role models for him. I’ve got too daughters, I love to see positive female characters for them. They lived watching a female doctor who. If I was a show runner I’d make every character female. If my some turns out to be gay, I’d make sure there were loads of gay characters in my show for him to look up to. Why I’m earth wouldn’t eye. That’s the power I’d have. If you don’t like it, don’t watch it, or create your own stuff. 

[TigerTedd]

1 hour ago, maxjam said:

Isn't that a false equivalence?   

Players taking the knee has no effect on the the match - it is the same regardless.  Whereas making characters gay because 'The idea of replacing Clark Kent with another straight white savior felt like a missed opportunity' and making him 'protest deportation of refugees' rather than fight space aliens or whatever he does is a huge departure from the character fans grew to love. 

 

And hold on, it’s not a false equivalence. You’re saying if taking the knee did have an impact on the game, then you’re reaction would be that they should just concentrate on the game and leave their agendas at home. But as it’s not impacting on the game, they can do what they want.

Maybe they should disrupt the game, and more people would pay attention. 

[Norman]

Soon we will be talking about Batman being a furry. 

[Norman]

5 minutes ago, TigerTedd said:

And hold on, it’s not a false equivalence. You’re saying if taking the knee did have an impact on the game, then you’re reaction would be that they should just concentrate on the game and leave their agendas at home. But as it’s not impacting on the game, they can do what they want.

Maybe they should disrupt the game, and more people would pay attention. 

Which motorway are you sitting on tomorrow? 

[maxjam]

20 minutes ago, Anon said:

This isn't anyone's favourite show/book though, it's a new run. From what I understand this book isn't about Superman, but Superman's son. It isn't retconning anything from Superman (other than him now possibly having gay sperm). Do comic book readers want gay storylines? The sales figures suggest not, but the sales figures for the industry in general are abysmal. Which came first though? The trans-rooster or the gender nonconforming egg? Is the current state of the comic industry due to agenda pushing from hack writers or is the agenda pushing a desperate attempt by a dying industry to remain relevant?

Ah right, my knowledge of comic book characters extends exclusively to the recent movies - but I would argue that as Son of Superman, the audience would have a certain expectation in mind.  

You are correct in stating that sales figures/viewing figures suggest that there isn't a huge market for this kind of thing.  I would backtrack a little however though and say that its probably because they are trying to reinvent existing characters that upset the existing fans.  Get better writers and come up with new ideas rather than updating existing IPs for a new audience - they might be better received. 

[maxjam]

21 minutes ago, TigerTedd said:

Which fans grew to live him though. The ones that read him in the 40s and 50s?

Comic books are for kids. Grown ups might read them and enjoy them, but they are for kids. If a few old men are out out because the book they read when they were a kid has changed with the times, but their kids live it, then those old men aren’t getting the point. 

it was like the backlash to the Star Wars prequels. Everyone hated jar jar binks. But my kids loved him. Star Wars is a kids movie. The people who hated the prequels were kids when they watched and fell in love with the originals. Star Wars is for kids, first and foremost. 

comic books and super heroes are for kids, first and foremost. Older readers need to either grow up and stop reading them, or accept that they might change with the times. 

don’t forget this is superman’s son. It’s not the og superman. He’s still straight as an arrow. But this was a chance to reboot superman for a new generation. Hence it would have been a missed opportunity to just have more of the same, and not use this reboot to better represent the youth reading it. 

Also, don’t forget, superman is not real. He’s a creation. He’s a product of his creators imaginations and he’s whatever they want him to be. Maybe the creator or one of the creative team has a bisexual son, and wants to show positive role models for him. I’ve got too daughters, I love to see positive female characters for them. They lived watching a female doctor who. If I was a show runner I’d make every character female. If my some turns out to be gay, I’d make sure there were loads of gay characters in my show for him to look up to. Why I’m earth wouldn’t eye. That’s the power I’d have. If you don’t like it, don’t watch it, or create your own stuff. 

See previous post

[maxjam]

11 minutes ago, TigerTedd said:

And hold on, it’s not a false equivalence. You’re saying if taking the knee did have an impact on the game, then you’re reaction would be that they should just concentrate on the game and leave their agendas at home. But as it’s not impacting on the game, they can do what they want.

Maybe they should disrupt the game, and more people would pay attention. 

Of course its a false equivalence no one is trying to reinvent whatever football team it is taking the knee for a new audience.

[Comrade 86]

Where were all the mithering man-babies when Lois Lane was banging an alien? An illegal one at that.

Inter-species sex... All good, nothing to see here!

But a guy kisses another guy in some new comic book that no ducker is going to read anyway and it's all, 'my babies, my babies, what will become of my babies?'  

Quite simply the funniest hissy flounce ever ?

 

[Stive Pesley]

7 hours ago, maxjam said:

Does anybody really care if you have a gay couple living across the road these days or whether you've been to a lesbian wedding or not?  Maybe a tiny, tiny minority but as far as I can tell virtually everyone else is to busy living their own lives to concern themselves with the business of others

except for THAT guy on the internet who isn't too busy enjoying his own life to tell everyone all the many imagined reasons as to why a comic is wrong to their develop characters in a way he doesn't agree with

And then doubles down when no one takes him seriously

I'd rather be the "modern left" than be THAT guy

 

 

[maxjam]

It seems to me that that 'that guy' who has politely and thoughtfully engaged in an online forum is being attacked for who he is rather than what he has said.  

The hissy flounce most definately seems to be coming from the other side that haven't argued against what he has said - the fact that Son of Superman follows a long trend of similar IPs that have updated themselves for a new audience, only to find themselves cancelled a short while later as the existing audience leaves in droves. 

Instead, they have tried to deflect and attack the poster, attempting to make out he is a snowflake that isn't to busy enjoying his own life to post his imagined reasons, others would say thoughts, on a subject - then have the cheek to call him out for doubling down on his reasons, despite the fact we're on a 'discussion forum'.

If you want an echo chamber I can just stop posting.