Superman

[TigerTedd]

7 hours ago, maxjam said:

Forcefully pushing the agenda on the current market has a negative impact - we've seen it happen before and we'll no doubt see it happen again for reasons stated.  What is the answer?  I don't know, all I do know is the way they are currently attempting to do it - by reinventing existing IPs for a new audience, isn't working.

You’re not wrong here. There’s a noticeable backlash to those white middle classes losing their privileges, resulting in the likes of Brexit, MAGA, a rise in hate crimes. 

Too much too soon perhaps. 

people are being dragged, kicking and screaming, into a brave new world, and maybe a more collaborative, organic approach would be better accepted. 

Typical FC vs Marvel though. Marvel prepared to build a coherent universe over a decade, DC rushing everything to catch up. 

[TigerTedd]

7 hours ago, ariotofmyown said:

Dry your eyes mate, who cares if some old scutter dies cos they had to wait 18 months for an NHS op. They could have just worked harder and gone private.

The real tragedy is legacy superman fans crying into their camp cosplay outfits because the fictional son of the fiction superman has a fictional bisexual storyline.

It's like people get more wound up about things that are actually made up, than the things that are supposed to be true, but are instead made up.

Anyway, my 11 year old boys were telling me about a kid at a club the other day. They called them Roxy, then Dave. I asked what they meant and they told me that Roxy wants to be a boy so is called Dave now. Didn't care two hoots and just accepted them for what they are. 

If you gender reassigned, and could pick you’re own name though, why pick Dave?

[Mucker1884]

8 hours ago, uttoxram75 said:

This thread sums up everything that is wrong with our country.

Our National Health Service is being privatised without a whimper and yet people are falling out over Superman.

We're ducked.

Maybe not ducked in the true sense, but yeah, it's a definitely a dit of a dummer!

[Stive Pesley]

13 hours ago, maxjam said:

This thread started with 'the far right are going to impode' my argument has always been that 99% of any animosty comes from devotees of IPs that disapprove of changes to characters and worlds that they have grown to love, discarded in the search for a new audience that I have yet to be convinced exists

Aside from the original posters "far right are going to implode" comment being tongue-in-cheek, are you actually sure that there is the animosity there amongst devotees that you speak of? I've not seen any at all, all I have seen is people like yourself weighing in on the argument whilst admitting that "it doesn't bother me personally, all I am saying is that here are some lengthy reasons as to why i think it's bad"

I suppose I struggle to understand why you'd choose a hill to die on for something you don't care about

And for the record - no I don't like Doctor Who and the fact that you misremembered me being a fan is by far the most offensive thing you have said to me on here ?

[maxjam]

39 minutes ago, Stive Pesley said:

Aside from the original posters "far right are going to implode" comment being tongue-in-cheek, are you actually sure that there is the animosity there amongst devotees that you speak of? I've not seen any at all, all I have seen is people like yourself weighing in on the argument whilst admitting that "it doesn't bother me personally, all I am saying is that here are some lengthy reasons as to why i think it's bad"

I suppose I struggle to understand why you'd choose a hill to die on for something you don't care about

Not sure why you think this is a hill I'd choose to die on?  I gave my opinion, as did others,  on a discussion forum I am a member of.  That opinion led to an interesting conversation with @TigerTedd we agreed on somethings, disagreed on others and left it at that - how a forum should work.  Virtually all of my other responses have been to people trying to score points, twisting my words or implying I'm something I'm not - if you removed those replies from the thread my imput would be 2-3 posts.

 

47 minutes ago, Stive Pesley said:

And for the record - no I don't like Doctor Who and the fact that you misremembered me being a fan is by far the most offensive thing you have said to me on here ?

Oops my bad ? I recalled the Dr Who thread we had on this forum a while back so went back to check it - your input into it seemed quite knowledgeable, but you can know stuff without liking it.

[TigerTedd]

44 minutes ago, maxjam said:

Not sure why you think this is a hill I'd choose to die on?  I gave my opinion, as did others,  on a discussion forum I am a member of.  That opinion led to an interesting conversation with @TigerTedd we agreed on somethings, disagreed on others and left it at that - how a forum should work.  Virtually all of my other responses have been to people trying to score points, twisting my words or implying I'm something I'm not - if you removed those replies from the thread my imput would be 2-3 posts.

 

Oops my bad ? I recalled the Dr Who thread we had on this forum a while back so went back to check it - your input into it seemed quite knowledgeable, but you can know stuff without liking it.

True. I know lots, but I like very little. 

[May Contain Nuts]

Miles Morales seems quite popular. Are Spiderman fans more open to change than Superman fans?

Is there more acceptance of new characters having a different ethnicity to the original than a different gender and/or sexuality? It would seem that way.

Perhaps they should have had the first black Doctor Who before the first female Doctor Who? Who knows, or does sheheittheythem? The budget for that show's been slashed massively so it would probably have ended up a bit poo regardless.

[1of4]

8 hours ago, cstand said:

I wonder how more claims will go in now. Where are the over paid managers putting procedures in place to stop this

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-58718290.amp
 

My neighbours are going to leave the NHS and start up their own private business visiting people in their own home flexible working hours and better pay and not answering to any over paid manager

 

Looks like the tory's strategy is starting to work. Just need the government to offer a reduction in national insurance payments for those that are paying into a private health insurance and we'll be well down the slippery slope of no more NHS.

[maxjam]

52 minutes ago, Coconut's Beard said:

Miles Morales seems quite popular. Are Spiderman fans more open to change than Superman fans?

Is there more acceptance of new characters having a different ethnicity to the original than a different gender and/or sexuality? It would seem that way.

Perhaps they should have had the first black Doctor Who before the first female Doctor Who? Who knows, or does sheheittheythem? The budget for that show's been slashed massively so it would probably have ended up a bit poo regardless.

Good point, I'd forgotten about that game.  Several things spring to mind...

1.  My lad loves the Spiderman games, played the both to death got 100% and still plays them.  It helps that it is a great game.

2.  He still does Spiderman stuff.  He isn't protesting the deportation of refugees or sellotaping himself to a motorway, he's chasing down bad guys like he's always done.

3.  Original Spiderman hasn't been erased/reinvented.  Marvel hinted at the multiverse in Endgame, fleshed it out in 'Spiderman Into the Spider-verse' (cartoon) and it will make its appearance on the big screen in the upcoming Spiderman movie.

IMHO it kinda leans into my theory that its not the far right, bigots or the white middle classes that are moaning at this kinda thing, but the fans of established characters seeing their years of loyalty discarded for a new audience. 

From a laymans perspective Marvel do seem to have better writers and are adopting a more gradual approach than either the BBC or DC Comics, evolving their stories to bring in new characters, rather than ripping them up and starting over or dropping them awkwardly into activist storylines. 

Other than maybe that one brief all female shot in Endgame, I don't recall any forced diversity or politically correct talk of 'no more white saviours' or 'revinented for a new audience' coming from Marvel, they seem to have just gone ahead with great stories and introduced new ideas in a more organic fashion - rather than hitting the fans over the head with a woke sledgehammer and calling them bigots for not liking their reinvention of established brands. 

[Stive Pesley]

39 minutes ago, maxjam said:

my theory that its not the far right, bigots or the white middle classes that are moaning at this kinda thing, but the fans of established characters seeing their years of loyalty discarded for a new audience. 

Are you willing to accept that there is likely to be an overlap? Probably a venn diagram of a) fans who aren't bothered in the least, plus b) fans who are unhappy because they don't want to read about gays, and c) fans that are unhappy because they consider their "loyalty has been discarded". And probably another subset of  d) fans who are b) but pretending to be c) because "you can't say anything any more without being called a bigot ?

 

[Norman]

8 minutes ago, Stive Pesley said:

Are you willing to accept that there is likely to be an overlap? Probably a venn diagram of a) fans who aren't bothered in the least, plus b) fans who are unhappy because they don't want to read about gays, and c) fans that are unhappy because they consider their "loyalty has been discarded". And probably another subset of  d) fans who are b) but pretending to be c) because "you can't say anything any more without being called a bigot ?

 

Come on, let's not flounce around the point. You're doing your best to paint a person's views as horribly as possible with no evidence. 

Do you think he doesn't like the changes because he is homophobic? 

Yes or no. 

[Stive Pesley]

4 minutes ago, Norman said:

Come on, let's not flounce around the point. You're doing your best to paint a person's views as horribly as possible with no evidence. 

Do you think he doesn't like the changes because he is homophobic? 

Yes or no. 

Absolutely not. I don't think he is homophobic or bigoted in the slightest. I know exactly what his problem is, because he's explained it at length. I'm surprised you've not clocked it yourself - it's pretty obvious if you've been reading carefully enough

 

[maxjam]

13 minutes ago, Stive Pesley said:

Are you willing to accept that there is likely to be an overlap? Probably a venn diagram of a) fans who aren't bothered in the least, plus b) fans who are unhappy because they don't want to read about gays, and c) fans that are unhappy because they consider their "loyalty has been discarded". And probably another subset of  d) fans who are b) but pretending to be c) because "you can't say anything any more without being called a bigot ?

 

Haven't the foggiest what the overlap is maybe you should ask the huge numbers that leave when this kind of thing happens.  I do know the picture you keep trying to paint though. 

You seem to be very fixated on the gay issue. 

Of equal importance, if not moreso, imho are the storylines they are going with for Son of Superman.  As I said previously my knowledge of the Superman universe is limited to the latest movies with him fighting General Zod, Batman and some alien creature who's name I forget.  I might be wrong but I doubt there is much of a venn diagram overlap between people that enjoy that kind of content and people that want stories protesting the deporation of refugees ? 

[Norman]

Just now, Stive Pesley said:

Absolutely not. I don't think he is homophobic or bigoted in the slightest. I know exactly what his problem is, because he's explained it at length. I'm surprised you've not clocked it yourself - it's pretty obvious if you've been reading carefully enough

 

So what are you up to? Are you trolling? Looking for a bite? Get kicks out of trying to wind him up? 

[Stive Pesley]

5 minutes ago, Norman said:

So what are you up to? Are you trolling? Looking for a bite? Get kicks out of trying to wind him up? 

None of the above. We're just having a debate on a forum

What are you up to? Trying to intimidate me? Should I be scared at lights out?

[Norman]

4 minutes ago, Stive Pesley said:

None of the above. We're just having a debate on a forum

What are you up to? Trying to intimidate me? Should I be scared at lights out?

So now you're going to play the victim? 

Pathetic. 

[Wolfie]

21 minutes ago, maxjam said:

Of equal importance, if not moreso, imho are the storylines they are going with for Son of Superman.  As I said previously my knowledge of the Superman universe is limited to the latest movies with him fighting General Zod, Batman and some alien creature who's name I forget.  I might be wrong but I doubt there is much of a venn diagram overlap between people that enjoy that kind of content and people that want stories protesting the deporation of refugees ? 

Quite right IMO.

I feel like there seems to be very little in the way of just pure escapism in TV & film. I can't comment on comics because I haven't read one since Whizzer & Chips in about 1984.

Everything seems to have to be a comment on society and/or identity poilitics and have the fun sucked out of it. I want to see goodies fighting baddies - preferrably with pew pew laser guns. I couldn't give a stuff about what deeper message it has.

It just feels like I'm being manipulated when I sit down & watch a lot of stuff. It's sad.

[Stive Pesley]

30 minutes ago, Norman said:

So now you're going to play the victim? 

Pathetic. 

I'm just teasing you - it's quite sweet how you keep chipping up to stick up for Max by personally attacking me, and a tad ironic given the topic is about a gay superman ?

 

[maxjam]

9 minutes ago, Stive Pesley said:

I'm just teasing you - it's quite sweet how you keep chipping up to stick up for Max by personally attacking me, and a tad ironic given the topic is about a gay superman ?

Makes a refreshing change tbh from the 3 or 4 that have tried to twist every word I've said in this thread and post laughing emjois without adding anything substantial.

Each to their own I suppose.

[TigerTedd]

1 hour ago, maxjam said:

Haven't the foggiest what the overlap is maybe you should ask the huge numbers that leave when this kind of thing happens.  I do know the picture you keep trying to paint though. 

You seem to be very fixated on the gay issue. 

Of equal importance, if not moreso, imho are the storylines they are going with for Son of Superman.  As I said previously my knowledge of the Superman universe is limited to the latest movies with him fighting General Zod, Batman and some alien creature who's name I forget.  I might be wrong but I doubt there is much of a venn diagram overlap between people that enjoy that kind of content and people that want stories protesting the deporation of refugees ? 

I’m sure there would be some overlap. I’d be absolutely positive that there would be at least a few bigoted people that would be turned off from superman because of this, but wouldn’t want to admit it, and claim it’s something to do with plots (of the storytelling kind) and agendas, but really it’s down to their own prejudices.

And I’m sure the writers are aware of this, have factored this in, and would be happy to lose their custom. 

You’ve just watched the films, which are bound to be the headline, blockbuster stories. No time for agendas, too much story to cram in. But when you’ve got to produce a weekly series, or weekly comic book, you’re going to have some filler episodes and different directions that not everyone will like. You’ve got a bit more time to explore social issues, and how this character might react to the issues in the world they live in, not far removed from the world we live in. They can be some of the most interesting stories.

x-men, for example, has been about segregation from the start. Yes, we really all want to see the next big battle with the sentinels, the kids watching the cartoon probably don’t care so much about the politics, but the politics has always been a big and important part of it. Stan Lee has actually always been very good at developing 3 dimensional characters with personal issues to deal with, that would have realistic opinions on the world around them. Spidery is one of the best examples of this.

maybe the problem is that superman has actually always been a bit crap and 1 dimensional. Try to give him some character development and depth, and people do get a bit confused.

Like doctor who again, some people may not like the back in time episodes, and see them as filler before the next great Dalek episode. Personally I see that in the ‘Coming next ‘ section and I’m thinking, ‘oh, another Victorian one.’ Some people love it, my sister is a history buff and loves it when he goes back in time and explores moments in history. But like it or not, that is and always has been part of doctor who.