S8TY Posted June 30, 2021 Share Posted June 30, 2021 I believe Cocu would've helped the younger players he also made good decisions like letting Bogle and Lowe go and got Beilik Byrne, Colin and Joz in....it was never going to be a quick fix using so many young players and we are no better off now ....worse in fact I'd say I'm all for change if it makes us better............. and it hasn't been IslandExile, Derby4Me and r_wilcockson 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted June 30, 2021 Share Posted June 30, 2021 50 minutes ago, S8TY said: I believe Cocu would've helped the younger players he also made good decisions like letting Bogle and Lowe go and got Beilik Byrne, Colin and Joz in....it was never going to be a quick fix using so many young players and we are no better off now ....worse in fact I'd say I'm all for change if it makes us better............. and it hasn't been The thing where this 'Cocu would have had them...' falls down is, the players were confused by what Cocu was doing, it wasn't working. They may have liked the man but they couldn't get his football aims. Curtis Davies' comments on the training under Cocu back that up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rynny Posted June 30, 2021 Share Posted June 30, 2021 21 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said: The thing where this 'Cocu would have had them...' falls down is, the players were confused by what Cocu was doing, it wasn't working. They may have liked the man but they couldn't get his football aims. Curtis Davies' comments on the training under Cocu back that up. And here is where the then player/coach should have spoken to Cocu to help with things, the man who said he would be the link between the players and the management. Obviously he failed with that, remind me again what happened to him after Cocu left? IslandExile, Derby4Me, S8TY and 3 others 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo Ram Posted June 30, 2021 Share Posted June 30, 2021 23 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said: The thing where this 'Cocu would have had them...' falls down is, the players were confused by what Cocu was doing, it wasn't working. They may have liked the man but they couldn't get his football aims. Curtis Davies' comments on the training under Cocu back that up. That 'confusion' seems to have got worse under Wazza me thinks Macca.....just not working as you say..... IslandExile, S8TY, jimtastic56 and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S8TY Posted June 30, 2021 Share Posted June 30, 2021 21 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said: The thing where this 'Cocu would have had them...' falls down is, the players were confused by what Cocu was doing, it wasn't working. They may have liked the man but they couldn't get his football aims. Curtis Davies' comments on the training under Cocu back that up. it is no better with Rooney but you can see nothing wrong with someone who's record is worse....the younger players progressed under Cocu Bird for example was a much better player and like some others seem to have regressed under Rooney LeedsCityRam, Carnero, r_wilcockson and 5 others 4 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S8TY Posted June 30, 2021 Share Posted June 30, 2021 25 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said: The thing where this 'Cocu would have had them...' falls down is, the players were confused by what Cocu was doing, it wasn't working. They may have liked the man but they couldn't get his football aims. Curtis Davies' comments on the training under Cocu back that up. And yes if he was able to bring in a bit more quality who could understand his philosophy we may well have seen better progress, we played some great stuff at times Stoke 4-0 at home for example but it was falling down last season with some poor performances I agree....but maybe the problem was not all Cocu's fault.....maybe bring in players who could understand what he wanted mightve helped not players he seemed to have been given rather than chose like Dowell and Paterson, they didn't seem like his choices to me He brought in Beilik and his few games for Rooney were key as it papered over cracks ....I think we would've gone down without those Beilik games IslandExile 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted June 30, 2021 Share Posted June 30, 2021 (edited) 21 minutes ago, rynny said: And here is where the then player/coach should have spoken to Cocu to help with things, the man who said he would be the link between the players and the management. Obviously he failed with that, remind me again what happened to him after Cocu left? Lol. It's Rooney's fault that Cocu couldn't manage the players - that is very funny indeed. Whatever happens after Cocu is something else. This is Cocu's thread and posters keep suggesting we were just a few steps away from a good team with him! Edited June 30, 2021 by RoyMac5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jubbs Posted June 30, 2021 Share Posted June 30, 2021 7 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said: Lol. It's Rooney's fault that Cocu couldn't manage the players - that is very funny indeed. Whatever happens after Cocu is something else. So who's fault is it for our end of season woes? Cocu's? S8TY and jimtastic56 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted June 30, 2021 Share Posted June 30, 2021 7 minutes ago, Jubbs said: So who's fault is it for our end of season woes? Cocu's? Where did I say that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rynny Posted June 30, 2021 Share Posted June 30, 2021 16 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said: Lol. It's Rooney's fault that Cocu couldn't manage the players - that is very funny indeed. Whatever happens after Cocu is something else. This is Cocu's thread and posters keep suggesting we were just a few steps away from a good team with him! No I didn't say that. Rooney was meant to help with communicating what Cocu wanted, if the message wasn't clear then Rooney should have said something. As Rooney said himself, he was the link between the management and the players. So if the players were confused why hasn't it been said to Cocu, Twan and Chris that they didn't understand, why didn't the players say to Rooney we don't understand, what didn't Rooney say that they didn't understand? I could see what we were trying to do under Cocu, I could see what the plan was, but he got dealt a poo hand, didn't have a proper pre season with the squad, he didn't have a proper transfer window and was hampered by injuries to key players. The players he bought were nearly all improvements on who they replaced. The youth players were managed correctly, and were improving consistently, when the football clicked last season it was brilliant to watch, at times it didn't and it was slow and ponderous and frustrating, but that annoyed Cocu as much as the fans. Everyone sees what they want to see, you didn't like Cocu but you do Rooney, I liked Cocu but not Rooney. Rooney could change my mind but Cocu will never change yours now, unless he was crazy enough to come back (which won't happen). BBG83, LeedsCityRam, Jubbs and 7 others 5 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted June 30, 2021 Share Posted June 30, 2021 28 minutes ago, Jubbs said: So who's fault is it for our end of season woes? Cocu's? It’s a multitude of things Not just Rooney. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S8TY Posted June 30, 2021 Share Posted June 30, 2021 3 minutes ago, rynny said: No I didn't say that. Rooney was meant to help with communicating what Cocu wanted, if the message wasn't clear then Rooney should have said something. As Rooney said himself, he was the link between the management and the players. So if the players were confused why hasn't it been said to Cocu, Twan and Chris that they didn't understand, why didn't the players say to Rooney we don't understand, what didn't Rooney say that they didn't understand? I could see what we were trying to do under Cocu, I could see what the plan was, but he got dealt a poo hand, didn't have a proper pre season with the squad, he didn't have a proper transfer window and was hampered by injuries to key players. The players he bought were nearly all improvements on who they replaced. The youth players were managed correctly, and were improving consistently, when the football clicked last season it was brilliant to watch, at times it didn't and it was slow and ponderous and frustrating, but that annoyed Cocu as much as the fans. Everyone sees what they want to see, you didn't like Cocu but you do Rooney, I liked Cocu but not Rooney. Rooney could change my mind but Cocu will never change yours now, unless he was crazy enough to come back (which won't happen). Great post sir.... BBG83 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted June 30, 2021 Share Posted June 30, 2021 3 minutes ago, rynny said: No I didn't say that. Rooney was meant to help with communicating what Cocu wanted, if the message wasn't clear then Rooney should have said something. As Rooney said himself, he was the link between the management and the players. So if the players were confused why hasn't it been said to Cocu, Twan and Chris that they didn't understand, why didn't the players say to Rooney we don't understand, what didn't Rooney say that they didn't understand? Yes, very well argued. But it presupposes that Cocu wanted to listen or if he listened that he was willing to change - you'll find comments from fans in Holland saying how stubborn he was. So again, very funny blaming Rooney for Cocu's management failings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted June 30, 2021 Share Posted June 30, 2021 Er The players like working with Rooney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo Ram Posted June 30, 2021 Share Posted June 30, 2021 4 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said: Yes, very well argued. But it presupposes that Cocu wanted to listen or if he listened that he was willing to change - you'll find comments from fans in Holland saying how stubborn he was. So again, very funny blaming Rooney for Cocu's management failings. Who do you blame for Rooney's management failings then as I am sure you are aware, things have got worse???????? S8TY and Jubbs 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted June 30, 2021 Share Posted June 30, 2021 Just now, Jimbo Ram said: Who do you blame for Rooney's management failings then as I am sure you are aware, things have got worse???????? Got worse ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rynny Posted June 30, 2021 Share Posted June 30, 2021 18 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said: Yes, very well argued. But it presupposes that Cocu wanted to listen or if he listened that he was willing to change - you'll find comments from fans in Holland saying how stubborn he was. So again, very funny blaming Rooney for Cocu's management failings. Again, I'm not saying it is solely down to Rooney, but he has take some responsibility, as part of the management set up, for where we were when Cocu left last season. Why would Cocu not listen? I'm sure he didn't want to lose his job, and I'm sure he didn't want the team to lose. He had no benefit to the team losing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oomarkwright Posted June 30, 2021 Share Posted June 30, 2021 He's left. Get over it! Lets move on. The Scarlet Pimpernel and Premier ram 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted June 30, 2021 Share Posted June 30, 2021 (edited) 5 minutes ago, rynny said: Again, I'm not saying it is solely down to Rooney, but he has take some responsibility, as part of the management set up, for where we were when Cocu left last season. Why would Cocu not listen? I'm sure he didn't want to lose his job, and I'm sure he didn't want the team to lose. He had no benefit to the team losing. Goodness, I don't know, maybe he listened but couldn't put across how to change things. The end point was we weren't doing well and it looked like it wasn't getting better. And for a manager of Cocu's standing as a player and manager, to not be able to get what he wanted from Rooney/the players (if he wasn't - that is still supposition), well again that has to be with the manager. Lots and lots of sacked managers don't want to lose their jobs, but they do. Edited June 30, 2021 by RoyMac5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jubbs Posted June 30, 2021 Share Posted June 30, 2021 21 minutes ago, Jimbo Ram said: Who do you blame for Rooney's management failings then as I am sure you are aware, things have got worse???????? That's what I was trying to get at, you worded that better than me lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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