*IF* we do stay up....

[G STAR RAM]

3 minutes ago, Jimbo Ram said:

The reason we are laughing at your post is that Ferguson was no rookie at that time, he was an experienced Manager who had won European competitions at Aberdeen, so comparing him with the novice who has only managed 30 games or so is a tad silly don’t you think ?

My point was that sacking a manager after a bad run of results is not always a good idea and had Man United sacked Ferguson (as they were considering) who knows where they would have been now.

I was also making the point that one minute people want stability and the next they want a manager sacked after 30 games...

[SecretDave]

1 hour ago, MrPlinkett said:

I don't think today Jim Smith would have made Christmas in his first season,  very poor form and no sign of improvement until magically Igor signed and it turned around.  Today we wouldn't have been able to sign him in the November. 

 

I remember watching Jim Smith's Derby team in a July pre-season friendly against Tottenham, and I thought we looked like a really, special team even that far back. Derby beat Spurs that day. It didn't surprise me that we got promoted that season. 

I can't say I've ever seen a Derby performance this season that makes me think something special could happen. 

[Jimbo Ram]

5 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

My point was that sacking a manager after a bad run of results is not always a good idea and had Man United sacked Ferguson (as they were considering) who knows where they would have been now.

I was also making the point that one minute people want stability and the next they want a manager sacked after 30 games...

I understand the point you are trying to make but the example you used was not the best ?

[G STAR RAM]

1 minute ago, Jimbo Ram said:

I understand the point you are trying to make but the example you used was not the best ?

Yeah probably not.

 

[G STAR RAM]

6 minutes ago, SecretDave said:

I remember watching Jim Smith's Derby team in a July pre-season friendly against Tottenham, and I thought we looked like a really, special team even that far back. Derby beat Spurs that day. It didn't surprise me that we got promoted that season. 

I can't say I've ever seen a Derby performance this season that makes me think something special could happen. 

Jim Smith signed a lot of players in that pre season if I remember correctly.

Rooney has not had the chance to sign a single player yet.

[FlyBritishMidland]

11 hours ago, BondJovi said:

I said early on that I find it incredibly difficult to support Rooney mainly from a moral view.

I can't overlook several things. His performances as a player, his fight and desire as a player. Keeping himself in shape. He was entirely disrespectful, to his manager, his players, the club and the fans by not looking after himself. He had the talent and experience to be our star but he was the opposite.

He was given the job, he was who the prospective new owners wanted. Maybe we only chose him for financial reasons. He wasn't a reluctant hero, he wanted the job, he believed with no experience he could lead us. He believed he could lead us with no fitness on the pitch. Pure arrogance.

I don't like that he blamed it all on Cocu, I don't like that the club was classless in the everyone is happy and smiling training stories. He said he knew what to do, he said these players should be nowhere near the bottom 3. Well, look where we are.

Everything about him is inconsistent, his line ups, his tactics, the way he treats his players. I thought Whittaker was handled very badly, he should have hated scoring past us, but he didn't.

I can appreciate this has been a tough time, I think this would have been a tough season whoever was in charge but it has not been good enough for a long time.

There really isn't much to like about football currently. There isn't much to like about this club anymore. And now I see our next prospective new owner is being a fool on twitter. Arrogance. Somehow despite our position we still reek of it.

The sooner the Rooney story ends at this club the better. 

 

 

This is spot on @BondJovi and the original post by @IslandExile.  I thought he showed a lack of leadership on the pitch when it was needed most.  We’d go behind he’d just turn round and accept.  No rallying the team, no encouragement which is what a young team needs.

I’d also add Soccer Aid.  A worthy cause but going off to do that whilst a DCFC player was disrespectful to the club, manager and fans.  I think he may have been injured, doesn’t matter, his 100% focus should have been on getting fit.  And that’s part of the reason why I struggled with him calling out the players.  I’m not a fan of it anyway as I think it should be a last resort but it can’t have gone down well given his performances and extra-curricula activities.

Edited May 5, 2021 by FlyBritishMidland

[SillyBilly]

Divorcing oneself as a fan for a moment if I was the new prospective owner would I invest in Rooney next year? If it was my money, then honestly no I wouldn't. I'd rather pay him off and bring someone in who I would want to back.

Easy to say "give him a season" if he keeps us up, I understand that given we were bottom when he took over, but have to put yourself in new owners shoes. If may cost a £2M to move Rooney on? I don't know, guessing... £30M may be the cost of backing him for a season, it going wrong, and a new manager then wanting to write that £30M off on day one. No guarantees in football ofc but if I was investing in big money I'd likely want my own man in and live or die by that.

[Jourdan]

If Rooney somehow stays, what justification is there?

If our young players were excelling, it would make sense. If we were consistently trying to play good and positive football and there were green shoots, it would make sense.

If key players were playing at or above their expected level, it would make sense. If we’d ended the season strongly and full of momentum, it would make sense.

But on every metric you can imagine, Rooney falls down.

I don’t get this idea that if we win or draw on Saturday and stay up we should keep Rooney in the interests of fairness. What’s fair in football nowadays?

We have to be thinking in the interests of success. Is Rooney our best chance of success next season? Are you looking forward to next season under Rooney?

If the answer to either question is no, why waste any more time on Rooney?

[plymouthram]

If we stay up, I believe the current 4 so called coaches need some class. If we have to keep them, bring in Jody Morris and regardless of what Wayne states, this man does hold the right coaching badges he should be his right hand man and Wayne will learn and benefit from him, especially if he wants to continue in management and improve his CV. I always think back to Harry Rednapp and his career in management. He surrounded himself with good coaches throughout his time and even though he was the figurehead/face, a lot of credit must go to his team of coaches over the years.

[europia]

1 hour ago, Jourdan said:

If Rooney somehow stays, what justification is there?

If our young players were excelling, it would make sense. If we were consistently trying to play good and positive football and there were green shoots, it would make sense.

If key players were playing at or above their expected level, it would make sense. If we’d ended the season strongly and full of momentum, it would make sense.

But on every metric you can imagine, Rooney falls down.

I don’t get this idea that if we win or draw on Saturday and stay up we should keep Rooney in the interests of fairness. What’s fair in football nowadays?

We have to be thinking in the interests of success. Is Rooney our best chance of success next season? Are you looking forward to next season under Rooney?

If the answer to either question is no, why waste any more time on Rooney?

I tend to agree with your points, and in answer to your initial question; There is no justification. I've absolutely nothing against Rooney and perhaps he will make it in management one day. However, his time at Derby hasn't been successful by any measure, with signs only of further decline. Another failed experiment by Mr Morris, at a time when DCFC could ill afford to be taking such risks. 

[Jimbo Ram]

2 hours ago, SecretDave said:

I remember watching Jim Smith's Derby team in a July pre-season friendly against Tottenham, and I thought we looked like a really, special team even that far back. Derby beat Spurs that day. It didn't surprise me that we got promoted that season. 

I can't say I've ever seen a Derby performance this season that makes me think something special could happen. 

I went to an early away game that season at Wolves. We lost 3-1 but I remember saying to my Wolves mate who I went with on the way home that we would come above them and have a decent season. First game I saw Dean Sturridge play I think, he looked pretty good that night too...

[LittleEatonRam]

I distinctly remember watching Cocu's first game in charge away at Huddersfield on the tv when the Rooney deal had been all but confirmed and feeling sympathy towards the new manager that he had that thrust upon him straight away. Immediately all the focus went to the new celebrity we'd signed.

I knew it wouldn't work out with Rooney. I never expected things to go this way, of course, but I did strongly feel that he would have minimal impact as a player. I was a bit mystified as to why many people expected him to tear this division apart just because he'd had a couple of good seasons at Deportivo Denver or Borussia Baltimore or wherever it was in a league where Bradley Wright-Phillips is revered as a legend. Rooney was finished at the top level at 31. (C.f. Ibrahimovic, who has just signed a new deal to keep him in Serie A into his 41st year)

Anyway, in he came as player/coach. Immediately given the captaincy, he then started every game despite how poorly he was playing. Cocu either had to play him or felt compelled to. Performances both from Rooney and the team were patchy at best (even the much vaunted good spell around March 2020 was as much to do with the academy players playing well as Rooney, yet guess who got all the credit). But when things got bad again you would expect a man who was "a winner", "a leader", the highest paid, most senior and experienced player in the team, as well as being one of the coaches and the sodding Captain to hold his hands up and take some responsibility for his own and the team's performances. Did he? Ever? Nah.

Because everything - everything - has been about him since he's been here. He clearly sees himself as the number one priority, and so do the media. Giving him a job on the coaching staff was of no benefit to us, only him. It was a risk for us. He had his eye on the job straight away. I won't suggest he played badly deliberately to get Cocu sacked because there's no proof of that, but it's interesting that he immediately removed himself for selection when he took over. Who knows how we'd have got on if PC was allowed to select another player in his stead? The spell where Rooney was isolating due to buying a watch off his mate (even multi-millionaires need a mates-rates discount, dontchaknow) who turn out to have Covid saw our best performances for a while.

The media desperately, desperately want him to succeed though simply because of his name, and I suspect the same is true of a handful of fans. But for me he needs to go at the end of the season no matter where we end up. He doesn't care about this club, only himself, and we're kidding ourselves if we think otherwise.

[Sparkle]

23 hours ago, JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta said:

It's the way we lose games that worries me. It's the same things on repeat which tells me that the players and coaches are unable to fix our problems or unable to see them. 

Neither of those options are great and neither of them point to longer term success in my opinion. 

Players aren’t good enough especially the forwards