Too big to go down

[OoooMarkWright]

6 minutes ago, Ambitious said:

Leeds were in League One for a number of years and they’re undisputedly bigger than us. I assume you mean by bigger, you mean ‘fan reach’ and in terms of monetising that into revenue? 

Sunderland and Southampton have been relegated with bigger fan reach too. Not to mention: Leicester, Forest and Wednesday who have all seen the third tier of English football in the last 20 years. All clubs at least on a similar scale to us. 

We will see how truly big we are when we land in League One that’s for sure. We will do incredibly well to keep our attendances above 20k like Leicester, Forest, Leeds and Sunderland managed to achieve. 

 

I think we’ll see average attendances of around 18k.  Covid has wrecked the routine of going to games, this will also have a big effect. A nightmare scenario all round.

[Andicis]

Just now, enachops said:

I think we’ll see average attendances of around 18k.  Covid has wrecked the routine of going to games, this will also have a big effect. A nightmare scenario all round.

I reckon it'd be higher. I think a lot of people would be keen just to go back to watching live football, as well as the novelty of being in league 1 and playing different teams. 

[OoooMarkWright]

Just now, Andicis said:

I reckon it'd be higher. I think a lot of people would be keen just to go back to watching live football, as well as the novelty of being in league 1 and playing different teams. 

I’m not so sure. Let’s not glamorise  League 1, it’s a dive of a league. Attendances for crappy midweek games now are about 23 but a lot less there as season tickets are included. I genuinely think covid will wipe out a few as the routine has gone. Being so bad this season, I think some will think there are better ways of spending a Saturday afternoon/Wednesday night. Especially if it’s Gillingham at home, really one to get the adrenaline flowing that one. A fresh start has never been needed more. 

[Andicis]

1 minute ago, enachops said:

I’m not so sure. Let’s not glamorise  League 1, it’s a dive of a league. Attendances for crappy midweek games now are about 23 but a lot less there as season tickets are included. I genuinely think covid will wipe out a few as the routine has gone. Being so bad this season, I think some will think there are better ways of spending a Saturday afternoon/Wednesday night. Especially if it’s Gillingham at home, really one to get the adrenaline flowing that one. A fresh start has never been needed more. 

It's not about glamourising league 1. I think a lot of Derby fans are pretty jaded with the routine of playing the same teams year after year. It's a change. We've been in the Championship for 13 years now, I'm sure the novelty will wear off fast but I think initially it'll boost attendances if that's where we end up. Gillingham at home is no worse than playing Luton at home on a Tuesday night anyway is it? 

[Patrick Rams]

2 hours ago, Bearwood Ram said:

There's loads of clubs that can claim to be 'big' based on past glories. Just look back at who has won the top division over the years. Plenty of clubs like us whose time has been and gone. It's laughable to suggest we're a big club these days. 

Yet out of all those clubs in the Championship this season we have attracted the biggest average attandence for at least the last ten seasons.

[BramcoteRam84]

I reckon we’d average 20,000 in league 1.

We’re not going to be in League 1 though. COYR!!!

[RoyMac5]

Just now, BramcoteRam84 said:

I reckon we’d average 20,000 in league 1.

We’re not going to be in League 1 though. COYR!!!

If we're doing well in the Championship we might average 28,000! #COYR

[ariotofmyown]

2 hours ago, EdinRam said:

I'm a Derby fan, I wouldn't deny how big a club are purely on rivalry, they won the European Cup. A sleeping giant. Its just a good job they are poo 

What crazy rationale are you using to say QPR are a bigger club than Derby? They never won anything, got a small ground and lower attendance. Guess Sinclair did that amazing overhead kick though.

And what criteria makes a previously successful club like Forest a sleeping giant? Are there 1000s of fairweather Forest supporters, all ready to flood back once they climb the league? Are there loads of Nottingham millionaires ready to invest when the time is right? Have they got plans to stop renting their stadium from the council and build a 70k seater stadium out of town?

I grew up surrounded by Wolves fans, who kept repeating the idea that they had this huge fanbase (who just didn't attend matches) and were a much bigger club than Derby because...erm...they won some league titles 20 years ago before Derby did? When they did get back to the Prem, even now when they are a good side, they still have a similar attendance to us. That huge fanbase still isn't turning up.

I'm not sure there are any actual sleeping giants.

There are some sleeping mid-sized clubs like us, Forest, Wednesday, Sunderland, Ipswich, Charlton.

There are some larger clubs that are in the Prem but below the "big 6" level: Newcastle, Everton, Villa, West Ham, Leeds.

Maybe Arsenal are about the only possible candidate in terms of a huge club that is currently nowhere near challenging for the Prem/Champions League.

Edited May 4, 2021 by ariotofmyown

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

1 hour ago, popside ossie end popside said:

Actual fan pulling power if either ever got a decent team Sheff Wed and Birmingham bigger clubs.  Watford????  

Nah

[SillyBilly]

This is a wind-up with some of those clubs listed in the top third. However, even as a Derby fan I'd accept if you were to poll other fans across the country and even globally (lets face it our opinion doesn't matter) that Forest would be placed ahead of Derby in size due to the two European cups, arguably we're slightly ahead of them on most other metrics but other fans won't see that and you can't ignore a massive deal such as those honours. Good rivalry between us as we are so similar in size.

The only other team in the Championship I'd place ahead of Derby would be Wednesday, they are a sleeping giant in a lot of respects. There is no other club in the Championship as it stands that has earned the right to be "bigger" than us, on paper we're one of the heavier "middle weights" of English football, we've sparred in around the top for most of our history.

My top 6 for Championship:

Wednesday

Forest

Derby

Birmingham

Blackburn (6)

Norwich (6)

...I cheated, I can't split Blackburn and Norwich out so placed them joint 6th.

We're often overlooked which suits us perfectly fine IMO (well we used to be before we got media managers and turned into a circus), we're a pretty unfashionable club from a fairly unfashionable city afterall, most managers and players I think generally learn pretty quickly we're a decent sized club in my view. 

I think you could create a list of "proper" football clubs a lot more easily. And all the names like Brum, Weds, Sheff Utd, Derby, Forest,m Wolves, West Brom, Sunderland would appear. People could argue until the cows come home who is bigger out of those lot but truth is all have prestige to them. There is a rank of clubs beneath that that may have tasted top flight football who think they belong in such company but don't...Stoke being a prime example. I live in Reading and they do too. They just aren't. As they say form is temporary, class is permanent. You expect the above listed to eventually get back to the top flight if not already.

 

Edited May 4, 2021 by SillyBilly

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

35 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said:

What crazy rationale are you using to say QPR are a bigger club than Derby? They never won anything, got a small ground and lower attendance. Guess Sinclair did that amazing overhead kick though.

And what criteria makes a previously successful club like Forest a sleeping giant? Are there 1000s of fairweather Forest supporters, all ready to flood back once they climb the league? Are there loads of Nottingham millionaires ready to invest when the time is right? Have they got plans to stop renting their stadium from the council and build a 70k seater stadium out of town?

I grew up surrounded by Wolves fans, who kept repeating the idea that they had this huge fanbase (who just didn't attend matches) and were a much bigger club than Derby because...erm...they won some league titles 20 years ago before Derby did? When they did get back to the Prem, even now when they are a good side, they still have a similar attendance to us. That huge fanbase still isn't turning up.

I'm not sure there are any actual sleeping giants.

There are some sleeping mid-sized clubs like us, Forest, Wednesday, Sunderland, Ipswich, Charlton.

There are some larger clubs that are in the Prem but below the "big 6" level: Newcastle, Everton, Villa, West Ham, Leeds.

Maybe Arsenal are about the only possible candidate in terms of a huge club that is currently nowhere near challenging for the Prem/Champions League.

All opinions but I wouldn't put West Ham as a bigger club than Derby to be honest. A fancy new stadium but despite the repeated proclamation they never  won the world cup in 66 or indeed sod all else. Everton are a bigger club by far to me than Chelsea in the big 6 or Leeds and a bigger club than Man city.

 

[Andicis]

4 minutes ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said:

All opinions but I wouldn't put West Ham as a bigger club than Derby to be honest. A fancy new stadium but despite the repeated proclamation they never  won the world cup in 66 or indeed sod all else. 

They managed to talk their way into prestige because they're a London club. Like you said yourself, they have no honours. 

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

6 minutes ago, SillyBilly said:

This is a wind-up with some of those clubs listed in the top third. However, even as a Derby fan I'd accept if you were to poll other fans across the country and even globally (lets face it our opinion doesn't matter) that Forest would be placed ahead of Derby in size due to the two European cups, arguably we're slightly ahead of them on most other metrics but other fans won't see that and you can't ignore a massive deal such as those honours. Good rivalry between us as we are so similar in size.

The only other team in the Championship I'd place ahead of Derby would be Wednesday, they are a sleeping giant in a lot of respects. There is no other club in the Championship as it stands that has earned the right to be "bigger" than us, on paper we're one of the heavier "middle weights" of English football, we've sparred in around the top for most of our history.

My top 6 for Championship:

Wednesday

Forest

Derby

Birmingham

Blackburn (6)

Norwich (6)

...I cheated, I can't split Blackburn and Norwich out so placed them joint 6th.

We're often overlooked which suits us perfectly fine IMO (well we used to be before we got media managers and turned into a circus), we're a pretty unfashionable club from a fairly unfashionable city afterall, most managers and players I think generally learn pretty quickly we're a decent sized club in my view. 

I think you could create a list of "proper" football clubs a lot more easily. And all the names like Brum, Weds, Sheff Utd, Derby, Forest,m Wolves, West Brom, Sunderland would appear. People could argue until the cows come home who is bigger out of those lot but truth is all have prestige to them. There is a rank of clubs beneath that that may have tasted top flight football who think they belong in such company but don't...Stoke being a prime example. I live in Reading and they do too. They just aren't. As they say form is temporary, class is permanent. You expect the above listed to eventually get back to the top flight if not already.

 

If my mate who supports Reading starts with such antics, I just tell him his clubs that non descript if they designated each one a paint Readings choice would be Magnolia or a slightly off beige. 

[ariotofmyown]

1 hour ago, SillyBilly said:

I live in Reading and they do too. They just aren't. As they say form is temporary, class is permanent. You expect the above listed to eventually get back to the top flight if not already

I think this video proves that Reading are actually a huge club...

 

[ariotofmyown]

1 hour ago, Andicis said:

They managed to talk their way into prestige because they're a London club. Like you said yourself, they have no honours. 

You know there is no criteria to being a big club? It can mean anything.

I think Arsenal have always being the big London club, with Chelsea, West Ham and Spurs a rung down.

[Andicis]

2 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said:

You know there is no criteria to being a big club? It can mean anything.

I think Arsenal have always being the big London club, with Chelsea, West Ham and Spurs a rung down.

Agreed, there isn't. But generally having a few honours goes along with it. Arsenal and more recently Chelsea win a lot. Spurs have some decent history, West Ham don't. 

It can be whatever you want it to be, but West Ham seem to have been forced as a bigger club than they are, in my book. 

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

8 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said:

I think this video proves that Reading are actually a huge club...

 

Seen that before and forgot about it or blanked it out.  Memo from Moldovas Eurovision entrants 1994 'We want our song back.

[ariotofmyown]

1 hour ago, SillyBilly said:

This is a wind-up with some of those clubs listed in the top third. However, even as a Derby fan I'd accept if you were to poll other fans across the country and even globally (lets face it our opinion doesn't matter) that Forest would be placed ahead of Derby in size due to the two European cups, arguably we're slightly ahead of them on most other metrics but other fans won't see that and you can't ignore a massive deal such as those honours. Good rivalry between us as we are so similar in size.

The only other team in the Championship I'd place ahead of Derby would be Wednesday, they are a sleeping giant in a lot of respects. There is no other club in the Championship as it stands that has earned the right to be "bigger" than us, on paper we're one of the heavier "middle weights" of English football, we've sparred in around the top for most of our history.

My top 6 for Championship:

Wednesday

Forest

Derby

Birmingham

Blackburn (6)

Norwich (6)

...I cheated, I can't split Blackburn and Norwich out so placed them joint 6th.

We're often overlooked which suits us perfectly fine IMO (well we used to be before we got media managers and turned into a circus), we're a pretty unfashionable club from a fairly unfashionable city afterall, most managers and players I think generally learn pretty quickly we're a decent sized club in my view. 

I think you could create a list of "proper" football clubs a lot more easily. And all the names like Brum, Weds, Sheff Utd, Derby, Forest,m Wolves, West Brom, Sunderland would appear. People could argue until the cows come home who is bigger out of those lot but truth is all have prestige to them. There is a rank of clubs beneath that that may have tasted top flight football who think they belong in such company but don't...Stoke being a prime example. I live in Reading and they do too. They just aren't. As they say form is temporary, class is permanent. You expect the above listed to eventually get back to the top flight if not already.

 

I like the proper tag. Maybe a mix of big and proper would settle it.

I'd have Arsenal, Man Utd and Lpool in the highest tier.

Big Clubs would be then Newcastle, Everton, City, Villa, Chelsea, West Ham, Spurs, Leeds.

Next tier down is Sunderland, Wednesday, Forest, Us, Wolves, WBA. The group of teams who could make it into the Big Clubs again.

These teams are in a lower tier: Bham, Stoke, Leicester, Southampton, Norwich, Burnley, Portsmouth, Palace, Ipswich, Sheff United, Charlton. Think Leicester have almost done enough recently to get a promotion.

Brighton and Fulham are the current Premier League teams not to pass my Big & Proper club list. They will be gutted.

 

[Ibby]

[Josh]

Delete this. QPR, Watford, Birmingham, Boro, Norwich, bigger clubs than Derby? ????