New management team required - NOW

[RoyMac5]

7 minutes ago, rynny said:

Mac 1 came in after 10 games we had 11 points. Not quite relegation form but the change in form was unbelievable. 

Mac 2 came in after 10 games we had 9 points and 5 goals scored. Took us to the edge of the play offs. 

Rooney has brought in half as many players as Cocu did, in a third of the time. How much money has Cocu had to spend? He has signed Bielik (£4m guaranteed) and Jozwiak (£2-2.5m) for any real amount of money, Marshall and Byrne for hardly anything. How much has Cocu had to bring in? How much did he have to reduce the wages by?

Cocu didn't get a full preseason with the players, yet he got judged. 

Mac 1 had a wonderful squad.

Mac 2 had a good squad.

Cocu bought in ...? All of Rooney's loans and enough left over to don't get vaguely near to what Cocu was able to do with the squad. Preseason says Rooney, what's that?

 

1 minute ago, rynny said:

Thought it was a funny joke ?‍♂️

Of course you did. Great sense of humour.

[BOB BIGGS]

One great advantage enjoyed by manager Wayne Rooney after Cocu left is that he hasn’t had to include Wayne Rooney in his starting 11. 
 

That undoubted bonus, and more importantly, having Bielik available for a few games during his reign, has given us a chance of survival. Still too close to call though....

Could be a long season....?

[Rammy03]

Rooney gets a pass because he took over a team that was in the relegation zone and has lifted us out of it.

We've seen some decent football under Rooney near the start but we've also seen some awful football more recently. People conveniently forget the dire football we played under Cocu for large parts of his tenure. Boring boring possession football.

And it wasn't all his fault either, so it's not all Rooney's fault. They both have had poor squads to work with. This squad in my view is worse than last season.

Rooney is doing the job and will likely keep us in the division. Hopefully he can get a better team together next season, providing things happen off the field, and then we can properly judge him. 

[rynny]

52 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Cocu bought in ...? All of Rooney's loans and enough left over to don't get vaguely near to what Cocu was able to do with the squad. Preseason says Rooney, what's that?

55 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Of course you did. Great sense of humour.

[RoyMac5]

8 minutes ago, rynny said:

Didn't realise you were hard of hearing.

 

[rynny]

6 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Didn't realise you were hard of hearing.

Just didn't make any sense. 

[Jourdan]

When it comes to the Cocu v Rooney debate, I think consistency is important.

Cocu’s time in charge was largely poor and unpalatable. Rooney’s time in charge is looking similar. How can you lend support to one more than the other?

People who are now criticising Rooney find themselves in the same position as those who criticised Cocu in the dying embers of last season.

Where is your patience? Where is your understanding of everything Rooney has had to deal with? Can’t you see Rooney needs time?

The same things were said about Cocu, out of hopes, dreams and prayers rather than any concrete evidence that he or the club would be able to deliver improvement. Sometimes some of our fans seem to want to blindly ignore what is right in front of them.

Personally I am holding Rooney to the same standard I held Cocu. In short, neither are good enough. Neither is how the club is being run, something which is also a huge contributing factor.

If Rooney is going to be a success here, it will require a turnaround for the ages from top to bottom. Everything the club needs to prosper in such a way can be considered problematic or deficient.

We are talking about a club that spent almost a year on a takeover that didn’t get out of first gear.

And yet here we are being encouraged to believe Rooney and the people behind the scenes can deliver a strong season in 2021-22?

Football is wonderful in its unpredictability but we will be 100-1 for the top six for a very good reason.

[kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong]

36 minutes ago, Jourdan said:

When it comes to the Cocu v Rooney debate, I think consistency is important.

Cocu’s time in charge was largely poor and unpalatable. Rooney’s time in charge is looking similar. How can you lend support to one more than the other?

People who are now criticising Rooney find themselves in the same position as those who criticised Cocu in the dying embers of last season.

Where is your patience? Where is your understanding of everything Rooney has had to deal with? Can’t you see Rooney needs time?

The same things were said about Cocu, out of hopes, dreams and prayers rather than any concrete evidence that he or the club would be able to deliver improvement. Sometimes some of our fans seem to want to blindly ignore what is right in front of them.

Personally I am holding Rooney to the same standard I held Cocu. In short, neither are good enough. Neither is how the club is being run, something which is also a huge contributing factor.

If Rooney is going to be a success here, it will require a turnaround for the ages from top to bottom. Everything the club needs to prosper in such a way can be considered problematic or deficient.

We are talking about a club that spent almost a year on a takeover that didn’t get out of first gear.

And yet here we are being encouraged to believe Rooney and the people behind the scenes can deliver a strong season in 2021-22?

Football is wonderful in its unpredictability but we will be 100-1 for the top six for a very good reason.

Funny one this,many of my favourite posters on the forum in dispute over Rooney performance as manager.

Essentially tho,I think you are correct here jourdan,neither have been good enough...cocu for his inexperience of the championship and Rooney for his inexperience as a manager.

Sadly I think Rooney football,to date,has been of an overall lower technical standard than cocus' and rather more rowett that Mac's finest.

If we do stay up this year and Rooney stays then next season will be the litmus test and no excuses for our lack of flair and goals this year.

Here's hoping that this year's dour football was just a necessary evil and that it's not waynes template for our football going forwards....

 

 

[Gringo]

I do not understand the obsession with McClaren, awful manager here and everywhere else he went after leaving  the Rams. Maybe the poor form started when he came in as Director of Football. 
the first contract not to be renewed should be his.

[Andicis]

19 minutes ago, Asheville Ram said:

I do not understand the obsession with McClaren, awful manager here and everywhere else he went after leaving  the Rams. Maybe the poor form started when he came in as Director of Football. 
the first contract not to be renewed should be his.

54% win rate in his first spell, 44% win rate in his second spell. This is better than any recent manager, by a *huge* margin, oh and the football was great. If you think McClaren was an awful manager here, you don't know football.

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

13 minutes ago, Asheville Ram said:

I do not understand the obsession with McClaren, awful manager here and everywhere else he went after leaving  the Rams. Maybe the poor form started when he came in as Director of Football. 
the first contract not to be renewed should be his.

The best football we've played in the last 30 years was with McClaren as assistant manager and permanent manager. Not sure where you're getting awful manager from.  He did OK at Boro, Man Utd and FC Twente.  Had a 5 game mare at Forest and wasn't the best at the managers graveyard that's Newcastle but nobody is. 

[Gringo]

6 minutes ago, Andicis said:

54% win rate in his first spell, 44% win rate in his second spell. This is better than any recent manager, by a *huge* margin, oh and the football was great. If you think McClaren was an awful manager here, you don't know football.

With Nigel’s team anyone could have had a good win rate, his second spell was awful we bottled the end of season. 
if he is such a good manager why does he keep getting fired?

[Andicis]

51 minutes ago, Asheville Ram said:

With Nigel’s team anyone could have had a good win rate, his second spell was awful we bottled the end of season. 
if he is such a good manager why does he keep getting fired?

Anyone other than Nigel himself? His second spell where he saved the team that was struggling and won a bunch of games in a row? Both spells were great, he should have been fired on neither occasion. 

[Dimmu]

9 hours ago, Andicis said:

I honestly think a huge difference is the fit Bielik impact. I think Cocu's results would have turned around too if he'd had a fit Bielik to choose from. 

Bielik was a huge factor, but also Rooney haven't had to select badly underperforming and mutineering captain called Rooney to his playing side.

[LeedsCityRam]

8 hours ago, Jourdan said:

When it comes to the Cocu v Rooney debate, I think consistency is important.

Cocu’s time in charge was largely poor and unpalatable. Rooney’s time in charge is looking similar. How can you lend support to one more than the other?

People who are now criticising Rooney find themselves in the same position as those who criticised Cocu in the dying embers of last season.

Where is your patience? Where is your understanding of everything Rooney has had to deal with? Can’t you see Rooney needs time?

The same things were said about Cocu, out of hopes, dreams and prayers rather than any concrete evidence that he or the club would be able to deliver improvement. Sometimes some of our fans seem to want to blindly ignore what is right in front of them.

Personally I am holding Rooney to the same standard I held Cocu. In short, neither are good enough. Neither is how the club is being run, something which is also a huge contributing factor.

If Rooney is going to be a success here, it will require a turnaround for the ages from top to bottom. Everything the club needs to prosper in such a way can be considered problematic or deficient.

We are talking about a club that spent almost a year on a takeover that didn’t get out of first gear.

And yet here we are being encouraged to believe Rooney and the people behind the scenes can deliver a strong season in 2021-22?

Football is wonderful in its unpredictability but we will be 100-1 for the top six for a very good reason.

A lot of very good points & certainly right to call out the lower standard Rooney is held to from some vehemently anti-Cocu posters, compared to Cocu .

Just to defend the patience shown to Cocu, there was more rationale behind it than blind faith. Firstly, he'd proven elsewhere to be a good manager so supporters had a track record to point to (can argue fairly whether PSV prepared him for the Championship). Secondly, his management of youth was excellent & the emergence of Bird and Sibley last Jan-March coincided with a very strong run & some good performances pre-lockdown. Lastly, he had to contend with constant off field distractions including a soft transfer embargo last Jan. No disputing he had to go by November but the presence of Rooney at that point looked more corrosive than an actual asset.

Faith in Rooney is largely based on him scraping results with a squad he himself says is much better than bottom 6/finished 10th last season & a blind faith he will turn out to be as good a manager as he was a player.

As to next season, I suspect we will be sold in the summer when our status is confirmed & crowds are allowed back so making us a more attractive buy. My concern is whether a short term pragmatist is the right man to be spending that money. Our regression since the start of 2015 has largely been because of money entrusted to either novice managers or unashamedly short term focused managers (Clement, Rowett, Lampard). Rooney ticks both boxes. We need a different direction in my opinion & whilst I wouldn't fire Rooney if he kept us up, my number one preference would be for a wealthier club to take him off our hands in the summer (Sheff Utd or West Brom might be good fits)

[RoyMac5]

2 hours ago, Dimmu said:

Bielik was a huge factor, but also Rooney haven't had to select badly underperforming and mutineering captain called Rooney to his playing side.

Cocu didn't have to he choose to.

[Yani P]

Don't forget the blinkered anti-Rooney mob believe the Mail as biblical truth so Cocu was forced to play Rooney...and Rooney forced Cocu out..and Rooney has fallen out with Mel.. blah blah blah....

I will judge him next season..when he doesn't start from the abysmal situation he inherited from Cocu and hopefully has the funds to bring in the players he wants.

[RoyMac5]

5 minutes ago, Yani P said:

Don't forget the blinkered anti-Rooney mob believe the Mail as biblical truth so Cocu was forced to play Rooney...and Rooney forced Cocu out..and Rooney has fallen out with Mel.. blah blah blah....

I will judge him next season..when he doesn't start from the abysmal situation he inherited from Cocu and hopefully has the funds to bring in the players he wants.

Errr that doesn't sound at all sensible! ?

[Van der MoodHoover]

33 minutes ago, Yani P said:

Don't forget the blinkered anti-Rooney mob believe the Mail as biblical truth so Cocu was forced to play Rooney...and Rooney forced Cocu out..and Rooney has fallen out with Mel.. blah blah blah....

I will judge him next season..when he doesn't start from the abysmal situation he inherited from Cocu and hopefully has the funds to bring in the players he wants.

Reserving right to comment in the future as the evidence to date is inconclusive is absolutely fine and sensible. 

I think it's not so much that people are "anti Rooney", it's more that people are anti a "pro Rooney" bandwagon that is making various pronouncements of managerial genius based on thin to zero evidence. 

[Mckram]

I think Rooney could become a good manager but it came too early and under difficult circumstances here.

I’m not having that the playing squad isn’t good enough though.

Malone, Bennett and Evans are doing well at Millwall who are currently a top 10 side. They were all deemed surplus to requirements here.

The team should be a comfortable mid table side, a lot of that was down to Cocu not working as since Rooney has been in we’ve probably performed at a mid table level.

Do I trust Rooney to recruit in the summer...probably not. Do I think he’s done enough to be given the chance of next year so far...yes.

Its one of those where it’s not bad enough to warrant change but not good enough to be happy with it.