F1 2021

[RadioactiveWaste]

29 minutes ago, Duracell said:

Despite what happened, I actually feel for Masi a little bit. F1 used to be about big personalities doing the jobs of a few different people, like Bernie and Charlie Whiting.

There's too much data, too much riding on it now, and the world is too open for us still to rely on one human to make such big calls, rather than relying on a process and a system. Masi had a few minutes to make a call at his discretion, and there's no way he made that huge mistake with anything other than the best intentions - but human error is way more likely when you put someone in that position.

 

Yes. I do feel Michael Massi was in a difficult position at the end of that race.

Ordinarily it'd have just finished under SC, said there wasn't time left after unlapping the cars and everyone shrugged, red bull grumbled but it's a completely safe position for the FIA to have held.

In the context of the Abu Dhabi race, I can understand the pressure to not finish under the SC - and - at the time the SC was pulled the track was safe for racing again. It's the unlapping fudge that's so problematic.

I think masi tried to do a good thing but ended up doing the wrong thing.

Let's not forget, soon as Latifi put it in the wall (racing a Haas in front of him for position) the SC was the right call to clear the track. Ends under SC and it's over, race restarts and it's a big help to Max, that's the unavoidable consequence of the situation.

At present I think Masi's position is untenable. If he is to continue, it needs to be with significant changes to race direction. The problem is he doesn't seem to have the authority over the teams that he should have in that role. Race control is primarily safety,followed by the integrity of the race. Those things shouldn't be subject to lobbying by teams. It's also not his job to address misfortune of competitors.

 

[Half Fan Half Biscuit]

What surprises me is that Mercedes didn't make more of this on Sunday night:- 

All competing cars must reduce speed and form up in line behind the safety car no more than ten car lengths apart.

Verstappen clearly violated that rule by running alongside Hamilton even if he didn't overtake hime before the restart.

[Gaspode]

3 hours ago, Duracell said:

Despite what happened, I actually feel for Masi a little bit. F1 used to be about big personalities doing the jobs of a few different people, like Bernie and Charlie Whiting.

There's too much data, too much riding on it now, and the world is too open for us still to rely on one human to make such big calls, rather than relying on a process and a system. Masi had a few minutes to make a call at his discretion, and there's no way he made that huge mistake with anything other than the best intentions - but human error is way more likely when you put someone in that position.

 

Trouble witth that argument is that there is a process and a system - what should have happened is written down in black and white. Masi chose to overrule the regs so that either the race wouldn't finish under a safety car (as it's permissable to) or (as seems likely given some of the other rather dubious calls during the season) to make sure that Lewis didn't win again.....

Your idea of human error seems far too generous given that everyone who knows anything about the sport could see exactly what would happen when he allowed the minimal amount of back-marker overtakes and let the safety car come in a lap earlier than it should have done.....

[Gaspode]

9 minutes ago, Half Fan Half Biscuit said:

What surprises me is that Mercedes didn't make more of this on Sunday night:- 

All competing cars must reduce speed and form up in line behind the safety car no more than ten car lengths apart.

Verstappen clearly violated that rule by running alongside Hamilton even if he didn't overtake hime before the restart.

Max actually went slightly past Lewis at one point - Mercedes raised it as one part of their appeal but it was thrown out.....

[RadioactiveWaste]

1 hour ago, Gaspode said:

Max actually went slightly past Lewis at one point - Mercedes raised it as one part of their appeal but it was thrown out.....

Mercedes were never going to get that decision, yes the rules say that, but a bit like all the pushing and shoving in the box on corners, you never see it given and there's often a bit of it goes on getting ready for the restart. Max was doing it more than most would but a bit of non issue.

My beef continues to be with race control. I try to have sympathy. I try to see both sides. I know it wasn't an easy job. But Masi got it wrong.

[Gaspode]

8 minutes ago, RadioactiveWaste said:

Mercedes were never going to get that decision, yes the rules say that, but a bit like all the pushing and shoving in the box on corners, you never see it given and there's often a bit of it goes on getting ready for the restart. Max was doing it more than most would but a bit of non issue.

My beef continues to be with race control. I try to have sympathy. I try to see both sides. I know it wasn't an easy job. But Masi got it wrong.

Daft thing is that they could have acccepted that part of the appeal, given Max a 5 second penalty and got themselves out of the hole they'd dug themselves.....

[RadioactiveWaste]

1 minute ago, Gaspode said:

Daft thing is that they could have acccepted that part of the appeal, given Max a 5 second penalty and got themselves out of the hole they'd dug themselves.....

Possibly, or though, it might have just been exchanging it for a different hole - I doubt Karen Horner would've accepted with good grace.

I read it as "well, we might as well throw that in, we can prove verstappen was ahead from the footage" but the real issue was the restart.

[TigerTedd]

3 hours ago, Gaspode said:

Max actually went slightly past Lewis at one point - Mercedes raised it as one part of their appeal but it was thrown out.....

Was he more than 0.2mm past him? If so, back of the grid for him. 

[Comrade 86]

21 point deduction for Hamilton. These people are ducking clowns. Mohammed ben Sulayem's zealousness has nothing to do with Hamilton's criticism of ME states' human rights abuses, I'm sure. 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/59705074

[RadioactiveWaste]

38 minutes ago, 86 Hair Islands said:

21 point deduction for Hamilton. These people are ducking clowns. Mohammed ben Sulayem's zealousness has nothing to do with Hamilton's criticism of ME states' human rights abuses, I'm sure. 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/59705074

If Hamilton is found guilty, then he could face a financial penalty for his absence rather than any sporting sanction.

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/sulayem-no-forgiveness-for-hamilton-if-he-breached-fia-gala-rules/6886492/

Far more likely to be a fine that mercedes pay for him.

If they are going to try for a points deduction I'm sure Lewis would just say fukkerty bye assholes

[Comrade 86]

18 minutes ago, RadioactiveWaste said:

If Hamilton is found guilty, then he could face a financial penalty for his absence rather than any sporting sanction.

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/sulayem-no-forgiveness-for-hamilton-if-he-breached-fia-gala-rules/6886492/

Far more likely to be a fine that mercedes pay for him.

If they are going to try for a points deduction I'm sure Lewis would just say fukkerty bye assholes

Bud, you do know I was joking right? 21 point deduction sound familiar...??

Not about Sulayem though. He can chug my chubby.

'There is no forgiveness in this.... Rules are rules...'

Yeah, right on Mohammed  ?

[RadioactiveWaste]

15 minutes ago, 86 Hair Islands said:

Bud, you do know I was joking right? 21 point deduction sound familiar...??

Not about Sulayem though. He can chug my chubby.

'There is no forgiveness in this.... Rules are rules...'

Yeah, right on Mohammed  ?

Yeah, FIA politics is on par with FIFA politics - everyone knows it's bad and the money rules but nobody must say that.

[Andicis]

1 hour ago, 86 Hair Islands said:

21 point deduction for Hamilton. These people are ducking clowns. Mohammed ben Sulayem's zealousness has nothing to do with Hamilton's criticism of ME states' human rights abuses, I'm sure. 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/59705074

Following the rules matter now does it? Shame it doesn't on the track! 

The FIA are a ducking joke. 

[uttoxram75]

I'm not a big F1 fan but having looked at it all, good grief he was robbed wasn't he? Absolute blatant daylight robbery. 

Its up there with Atwell v Forest and Madley v Burnley as crimes against humanity.

[Day]

3 hours ago, RadioactiveWaste said:

If Hamilton is found guilty, then he could face a financial penalty for his absence rather than any sporting sanction.

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/sulayem-no-forgiveness-for-hamilton-if-he-breached-fia-gala-rules/6886492/

Far more likely to be a fine that mercedes pay for him.

If they are going to try for a points deduction I'm sure Lewis would just say fukkerty bye assholes

Could see Hamilton retiring if this happens on principle, even if Mercedes paid his fine, 

[Rev]

It's not going to happen. The virus made sure of his non attendance anyway.

[Day]

More I think of this, the more I think Hamilton will think this is the perfect time to walk away.

Let's say he stays for the 2022 season, can't compete with Red Bull and Vertsappen or any other team, having to bow out without really challenging, would he want that, last thing you want is to go out on a whimper?

Walks away now, he has a large percentage (total guess) of the F1 fanbase that agree he was unfairly robbed, would justify his decision and leave with utmost sympathy and his head held high.

Almost think the seeds have been planted with him persuading Mercedes to drop their appeal, he wont want to be handed the Championship in the courts, the guy is a class act and take no satisfaction in that. 

If I was him, I would walk, really would, leave the pathway clear for George Russell to stake a claim for the number 1 seat.

[RadioactiveWaste]

Interesting question - Lewis retires, who do mercedes bring in?

Ideally they'd want an experienced driver alongside George who's of the calibre to be part of a championship fight.

Seb? Or Fernando? Both would need buying out but might ge tempted to have a real shot at the front again.

[Andicis]

30 minutes ago, David said:

More I think of this, the more I think Hamilton will think this is the perfect time to walk away.

Let's say he stays for the 2022 season, can't compete with Red Bull and Vertsappen or any other team, having to bow out without really challenging, would he want that, last thing you want is to go out on a whimper?

Walks away now, he has a large percentage (total guess) of the F1 fanbase that agree he was unfairly robbed, would justify his decision and leave with utmost sympathy and his head held high.

Almost think the seeds have been planted with him persuading Mercedes to drop their appeal, he wont want to be handed the Championship in the courts, the guy is a class act and take no satisfaction in that. 

If I was him, I would walk, really would, leave the pathway clear for George Russell to stake a claim for the number 1 seat.

With the changes to the car this upcoming season in mind, the Mercs have been saving development to use with the new regs. You'd expect them to put out a pretty competitive car, Red Bull however used a lot of development tokens in this season just gone.

No way he walks away before he gets 8. However pissed off he is, he wants that record. 

[Comrade 86]

38 minutes ago, David said:

If I was him, I would walk, really would, leave the pathway clear for George Russell to stake a claim for the number 1 seat.

7 minutes ago, Andicis said:

With the changes to the car this upcoming season in mind, the Mercs have been saving development to use with the new regs. You'd expect them to put out a pretty competitive car, Red Bull however used a lot of development tokens in this season just gone.

No way he walks away before he gets 8. However pissed off he is, he wants that record. 

I'm oscillating wildly between the two opposing notions. If it were me, I'd walk now. He's nothing left to prove and his legacy is secured. That said, he's always been a scrapper and I'm not sure that he won't be thinking duck yous lot, I'll show you. And an 8th title to complete the set of F1 records smashed must be tempting, especially given the development that Merc are reputed to have done to meet the new, 'racier' 2022 technical regs, as per @Andicis's post.

Selfishly, I'd love to see him stay and put Verstappen in his place, but really, he owes the sport and us fans nothing. Guess we'll just have to wait and see. Whatever happens, Red Bull and Verstappen in particular would do well not to underestimate George Russell.