The coronabrexit thread. I mean, coronavirus thread

[May Contain Nuts]

44 minutes ago, Mostyn6 said:

did you happen to listen to the Le Tissier interview I posted?

No, but I've watched Noel Edmonds telling the story of how some mind altering drugs caused one girl to regurgitate her own pelvis, and a young lad to cry all of the water out of his body.

Noel is an intelligent man, concise, clearly no nut job, has no agenda has nothing to sell, so I've sworn off cake for life.

Edited January 6, 2022 by Coconut's Beard

[Mostyn6]

7 minutes ago, Coconut's Beard said:

No, but I've watched Noel Edmonds telling the story of how some mind altering drugs caused one girl to regurgitate her own pelvis, and a young lad to cry all of the water out of his body.

Noel is an intelligent man, concise, clearly no nut job, has no agenda has nothing to sell, so I've sworn off cake for life.

I recommend watching it still. He's not trying to convince anyone of anything but points out a few things. He's called dangerous by some Prof of Science at Notts Uni, but points out that the main benefactor of thhe Professor's department is the Pharmaceutical company. He points out that he's called dangerous for refusing to have a vaccine, but the vaccine is harming and killing people. Worth a watch no matter how ignorant you want to be. You cannot ridicule something you don't know.

[G STAR RAM]

39 minutes ago, Mostyn6 said:

I recommend watching it still. He's not trying to convince anyone of anything but points out a few things. He's called dangerous by some Prof of Science at Notts Uni, but points out that the main benefactor of thhe Professor's department is the Pharmaceutical company. He points out that he's called dangerous for refusing to have a vaccine, but the vaccine is harming and killing people. Worth a watch no matter how ignorant you want to be. You cannot ridicule something you don't know.

Of course they can, this is what they are being conditioned to do.

Anything that does not follow the official narrative should be referred to as 'dangerous', 'nutjob', 'conspiracy theory' or 'anti vaxx'.

Now be a good boy and follow 'the science' and do as the Government tell you.

[Eddie]

1 hour ago, Mostyn6 said:

joking aside Eddie, as someone who's admired you and your intellect for many a moon, I was genuinely wondering what it would take for you to be suspicious of the way the Vaccines have been quickly created and rolled (forced) out. Who would make you think "hey, summat's not right here!" if they piped up and raised concerns?

Just to be clear, I know Covid exists, I had it, it was very bad, and I couldn't breathe. AS a diabetic too, I was scared. I had the first 2 jabs, albeit with many doubts of the authenticity of the claims of what it was. 

Pre-Covid, the Conspiracy theories doing the rounds were all about control, social-class systems (like in China), digitalising all money (cashless society), and removing ownership of things (everyone hires/rents everything). Backing up this, was a supposed attempt to wipe out 1.6bn people over 10 years (by killing off the old and ill, and reducing child births). There is a notion that old people don't contribute anything (in taxes), and hold onto their money and live longer.

Now all of that sounds ridiculous to your average human. But there are people more evil than you and I. Wealth creates power and influence. Hearing crackpots like Gates talking about people like me as if I am a cancer on HIS planet makes me think that something isn't right.

It's just the sheer number of people who would have to subscribe to such a conspiracy(re Covid-19) in order to make it effective that makes it, in my mind, so unlikely as to be vanishingly small.

So far as more political aspects are concerned, I don't know whether the media are in the government's pocket or the other way round. It's probably as symbiotic relationship - you scratch my offshore tax haven, I'll encourage our readership to vote for you and give you a huge donation as well. And if that doesn't work, shout CORBYN or MEGHAN loud and often. Unfortunately, people become more conservative as they age (I was a dangerous ultra-left wing pinko as a student, now I'm pretty well a liberal), and it's their (oldies) votes that generally keep right wing governments in power, so I think it would be most unlikely that they would consider killing off their core support in a wave of geronticide.

[G STAR RAM]

1 hour ago, Eddie said:

It's just the sheer number of people who would have to subscribe to such a conspiracy(re Covid-19) in order to make it effective that makes it, in my mind, so unlikely as to be vanishingly small.

So far as more political aspects are concerned, I don't know whether the media are in the government's pocket or the other way round. It's probably as symbiotic relationship - you scratch my offshore tax haven, I'll encourage our readership to vote for you and give you a huge donation as well. And if that doesn't work, shout CORBYN or MEGHAN loud and often. Unfortunately, people become more conservative as they age (I was a dangerous ultra-left wing pinko as a student, now I'm pretty well a liberal), and it's their (oldies) votes that generally keep right wing governments in power, so I think it would be most unlikely that they would consider killing off their core support in a wave of geronticide.

Do you not think it is possible to not think that Covid is a conspiracy theory but have some very serious questions about everything that has gone on since?

[PistoldPete]

24 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Do you not think it is possible to not think that Covid is a conspiracy theory but have some very serious questions about everything that has gone on since?

Like what? 

[G STAR RAM]

23 minutes ago, PistoldPete said:

Like what? 

Like the Government seeing how far they can push the powers that they are taking without need.

Like the media reaction and how they have been allowed to silence anyone with an alternative opinion. 

Like the mandating of vaccines for NHS workers even though the vaccine neither stops you from contracting or spreading the virus.

Like the implementation of discriminatory vaccine passports despite the above.

Like the Government being able to close businesses and destroy livelihoods.

Just a few off the top of my head.

[PistoldPete]

26 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Like the Government seeing how far they can push the powers that they are taking without need.

Like the media reaction and how they have been allowed to silence anyone with an alternative opinion. 

Like the mandating of vaccines for NHS workers even though the vaccine neither stops you from contracting or spreading the virus.

Like the implementation of discriminatory vaccine passports despite the above.

Like the Government being able to close businesses and destroy livelihoods.

Just a few off my head.

Fixed that For you.

 

The fact that NHS workers have been unvaccinated al this time is a scandal. Of course vaccination reduces the risk of you catching the virus, having it bad or of spreading it to others. NHS staff sickness is appallingly bad  and they set a terrible example to the people they are supposed to be caring for. Selfish, foolish and despicably careless.

Vaccine passports do not exist in this country (apart from for care workers). If they did, it would not be discriminatory.

 

Edited January 6, 2022 by PistoldPete

[G STAR RAM]

22 minutes ago, PistoldPete said:

Fixed that For you.

 

The fact that NHS workers have been unvaccinated al this time is a scandal. Of course vaccination reduces the risk of you catching the virus, having it bad or of spreading it to others. NHS staff sickness is appallingly bad  and they set a terrible example to the people they are supposed to be caring for. Selfish, foolish and despicably careless.

Vaccine passports do not exist in this country (apart from for care workers). If they did, it would not be discriminatory.

 

I'll point you in the direction of the coronavirus dashboard.

[PistoldPete]

2 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

I'll point you in the direction of the coronavirus dashboard.

Eh?

[G STAR RAM]

7 minutes ago, PistoldPete said:

Eh?

The vaccine stops you getting the virus you said, I think maybe you should have a look at the number of daily infections, and then go one step further and research how many people become infected are vaccinated.

[ramit]

8 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

The vaccine stops you getting the virus you said, I think maybe you should have a look at the number of daily infections, and then go one step further and research how many people become infected are vaccinated.

Over 91% vaccinated here and an explosion of Covid cases, over a 1000 a day some days.  On January 10 jabbing kids from 5-11 years old is set to begin.  Madness.

[Eddie]

30 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

The vaccine stops you getting the virus you said, I think maybe you should have a look at the number of daily infections, and then go one step further and research how many people become infected are vaccinated.

Perhaps there would be 2 or 3 times the number of cases at the moment if there hadn't been any vaccinations. We can say with a degree of certainty that the number of deaths would be up to half a million by now if there had been no effective vaccination programme. I appreciate that I have pulled these figures out of thin air, but surely that is just what you do every time under the guise of "posing the questions THEY don't want you to ask".

It is widely accepted that vaccines do have an effect in reducing viral load, because it is the more severely affected people who are more likely to spread it more, simply because they are producing a higher amount of virus particles in the droplets they expel.

This is simple virology. If a virus is spread by droplets, then the more droplets produced containing a higher level of virus particles means that there is a higher likelihood that someone in their close proximity will be infected, and if the viral load is high enough, then they are likely to be more severely infected more quickly.

My background before I got involved in IT was in a closely related subject - inhalation therapy, which is the physics of the delivery of particles in droplet/aerosol form into the lungs, and the chemistry and biology of what happens thereafter (therapeutic effect). As far as the delivery of particles into the alveoli is concerned, it matters not one jot whether it's a drug or a virus - the physics is the same. Some stuff turns corners, others don't manage the turns and their momentum makes them hit surfaces (mouth, throat, trachea etc) and get stuck there, causing side-effects instead of therapeutic benefit.

That last paragraph isn't really relevant - just pointing out that all (ok, most) of what I say on the subject is based upon directly-acquired knowledge and understanding of how the airways work.

[Eddie]

18 minutes ago, ramit said:

Over 91% vaccinated here and an explosion of Covid cases, over a 1000 a day some days.  On January 10 jabbing kids from 5-11 years old is set to begin.  Madness.

How many of those 91% are hospitalised now (or worse) compared to when the level of vaccination was 0%? That's the big question, and if the answer is "Far fewer", that is complete justification for the vaccination regime.

I can't say I'm an advocate of vaccinating children. Don't get me wrong, I'm not against it either if the child and the parents are in favour of them being vaccinated, but it strikes me now that it's perhaps taking things a stage too far just to protect those who refuse to protect themselves.

[ariotofmyown]

1 hour ago, G STAR RAM said:

Like the Government seeing how far they can push the powers that they are taking without need.

Like the media reaction and how they have been allowed to silence anyone with an alternative opinion. 

Like the mandating of vaccines for NHS workers even though the vaccine neither stops you from contracting or spreading the virus.

Like the implementation of discriminatory vaccine passports despite the above.

Like the Government being able to close businesses and destroy livelihoods.

Just a few off the top of my head.

Other ones you could have added:

The totally corrupt way that the government gave out huge contracts to friends and colleagues with little or no due diligence.

The bare faced lies from Cummings that the cabinet were then forced to support. Gove chuckling about it to Nick Ferrari was just grim.

The government's criminal decision to send patients into care homes at the start of the pandemic.

The ridiculous start to the pandemic when we locked down way too late. Johnson bragging about shaking hands with Covid patients whilst body bags were piling up in Italy. When we were still allowing people to fly in from Italy, with zero checks on arrival.

The ridiculous decision to not lockdown earlier in Autumn 2020, that then lead to an inevitably longer lockdown in November and another load of deaths. Johnson's total inability to understand leading and lagging indicators.

The social gatherings that were happening in Downing Street whilst the country was prevented from doing anything of the sort.

The expensive debacle of track and trace and our world beating app. The only way out of lockdown apparently. Until lockdown was declared over and neither was ready until cases started rocketing again.

Just a few off the top off my head. I imagine it's these sort of things that the majority of people will remember, rather than the rather fringe complaints we see regularly on here from the same handful of posters.

[G STAR RAM]

16 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said:

Other ones you could have added:

The totally corrupt way that the government gave out huge contracts to friends and colleagues with little or no due diligence.

The bare faced lies from Cummings that the cabinet were then forced to support. Gove chuckling about it to Nick Ferrari was just grim.

The government's criminal decision to send patients into care homes at the start of the pandemic.

The ridiculous start to the pandemic when we locked down way too late. Johnson bragging about shaking hands with Covid patients whilst body bags were piling up in Italy. When we were still allowing people to fly in from Italy, with zero checks on arrival.

The ridiculous decision to not lockdown earlier in Autumn 2020, that then lead to an inevitably longer lockdown in November and another load of deaths. Johnson's total inability to understand leading and lagging indicators.

The social gatherings that were happening in Downing Street whilst the country was prevented from doing anything of the sort.

The expensive debacle of track and trace and our world beating app. The only way out of lockdown apparently. Until lockdown was declared over and neither was ready until cases started rocketing again.

Just a few off the top off my head. I imagine it's these sort of things that the majority of people will remember, rather than the rather fringe complaints we see regularly on here from the same handful of posters.

Depends what you class as the majority, we have seen before what happens when people believe they know what the majority are thinking...

Also another to add to the list is why there has been literally no opposition to the Government for the past 2 years.

[EtoileSportiveDeDerby]

31 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said:

Other ones you could have added:

The totally corrupt way that the government gave out huge contracts to friends and colleagues with little or no due diligence.

The bare faced lies from Cummings that the cabinet were then forced to support. Gove chuckling about it to Nick Ferrari was just grim.

The government's criminal decision to send patients into care homes at the start of the pandemic.

The ridiculous start to the pandemic when we locked down way too late. Johnson bragging about shaking hands with Covid patients whilst body bags were piling up in Italy. When we were still allowing people to fly in from Italy, with zero checks on arrival.

The ridiculous decision to not lockdown earlier in Autumn 2020, that then lead to an inevitably longer lockdown in November and another load of deaths. Johnson's total inability to understand leading and lagging indicators.

The social gatherings that were happening in Downing Street whilst the country was prevented from doing anything of the sort.

The expensive debacle of track and trace and our world beating app. The only way out of lockdown apparently. Until lockdown was declared over and neither was ready until cases started rocketing again.

Just a few off the top off my head. I imagine it's these sort of things that the majority of people will remember, rather than the rather fringe complaints we see regularly on here from the same handful of posters.

Yeah but to be fair to Bojo his latin is pretty good

[ramit]

8 hours ago, Eddie said:

How many of those 91% are hospitalised now (or worse) compared to when the level of vaccination was 0%? That's the big question, and if the answer is "Far fewer", that is complete justification for the vaccination regime.

I can't say I'm an advocate of vaccinating children. Don't get me wrong, I'm not against it either if the child and the parents are in favour of them being vaccinated, but it strikes me now that it's perhaps taking things a stage too far just to protect those who refuse to protect themselves.

Yes, i should have added those numbers, so here they are.  There are 32 hospitalized, 7 of which are in intensive care.  Way more than before.  Hospital reports that 17 are vaccinated and 15 not vaccinated.  It is hard to work out what those numbers mean though, for those not fully vaccinated have been counted as not vaccinated in other instances.

After several complaints, the national hospital has agreed no longer report as died from Covid when a Covid infected patient dies, instead using the wording died with Covid, but the media still reports it the same as before.

[ariotofmyown]

7 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

Depends what you class as the majority, we have seen before what happens when people believe they know what the majority are thinking...

Good point, another shambles

[PistoldPete]

10 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

The vaccine stops you getting the virus you said, I think maybe you should have a look at the number of daily infections, and then go one step further and research how many people become infected are vaccinated.

So while complaining about "misinformation" you use the usual disingenuous and misleading stuff peddled by anti vaxers and COVID deniers, which seems a touch hypocritical to me.

First of all I didn't say the vaccine stops you getting the virus. I said it reduces the risk of infections, hospitalisations and deaths. The language you use "stopping you get the virus" is misleading... as if people are claiming there is some absolute protection.. there isn't and nobody has said there is.  

The way vaccine programmes work for the flu is that people are offered a jab every year because the previous years jab has worn off and because there are new strains of the flu every year.

It's the same with COVID except the strains are more deadly and more persistent. Current waves of the virus are because current vaccines are not designed for omicron, and because most people's jabs have worn off unless they have had a booster. Also because of the numbers of people who are unvaccinated.