PistoldPete Posted October 25, 2022 Share Posted October 25, 2022 1 hour ago, G STAR RAM said: Sorry, I don't read the newspapers. So was there any facts backing up the claim that nearly 10k deaths are due to the NHS collapsing or was it just a flippant comment, genuinely interested, not being facetious. It isn't a flippant comment, but "NHS collapsing" is shorthand for NHs dealing with backlog after lockdown , COVID etc (which affects non COVID deaths too if NHS are stretched).,.. and generally having not enough staff More here if you need it. https://unherd.com/thepost/investigating-the-mystery-of-excess-deaths/ Crewton 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted October 25, 2022 Share Posted October 25, 2022 2 hours ago, PistoldPete said: It isn't a flippant comment, but "NHS collapsing" is shorthand for NHs dealing with backlog after lockdown , COVID etc (which affects non COVID deaths too if NHS are stretched).,.. and generally having not enough staff More here if you need it. https://unherd.com/thepost/investigating-the-mystery-of-excess-deaths/ Thanks. So its just under investigation so at this point no more or less plausible than people suggesting that its the vaccine causing the excess deaths. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PistoldPete Posted October 25, 2022 Share Posted October 25, 2022 15 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said: Thanks. So its just under investigation so at this point no more or less plausible than people suggesting that its the vaccine causing the excess deaths. Except the article says investigations suggest the opposite. There are others too all saying similar. Pressure on the NHS is having its effect. G STAR RAM 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted October 25, 2022 Share Posted October 25, 2022 52 minutes ago, PistoldPete said: Except the article says investigations suggest the opposite. There are others too all saying similar. Pressure on the NHS is having its effect. Sorry didn't read the article at first as it would not load. Id say there's a certain amount of poetic licence to say the article suggests the opposite. Also think its a stretch to say the article is blaming a collapsing NHS, more the fact that many illnesses went undiagnosed due to the ridiculous measures imposed during Covid...something that alot of us actually warned about at the time... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PistoldPete Posted October 25, 2022 Share Posted October 25, 2022 3 hours ago, G STAR RAM said: Sorry didn't read the article at first as it would not load. Id say there's a certain amount of poetic licence to say the article suggests the opposite. Also think its a stretch to say the article is blaming a collapsing NHS, more the fact that many illnesses went undiagnosed due to the ridiculous measures imposed during Covid...something that alot of us actually warned about at the time... There is some of that. So you can blame lockdown although more like Nhs choosing not to let people see doctors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uttoxram75 Posted October 25, 2022 Share Posted October 25, 2022 Governments should be able to show death rates from the vaccinated v the unvaccinated. Its not difficult. The information is available and should be published openly and honestly, no bias, no spin, just the truth. Thats all we want isn't it? ramit and maxjam 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfie Posted October 26, 2022 Share Posted October 26, 2022 8 hours ago, uttoxram75 said: Governments should be able to show death rates from the vaccinated v the unvaccinated. Its not difficult. The information is available and should be published openly and honestly, no bias, no spin, just the truth. Thats all we want isn't it? Not sure that will help much, to be honest. Excess death rates are far more likely to be higher among those vaccinated because, by definition, they are older and more vulnerable. Also, what is "vaccinated"? Do you have to have different bands for those who may have had anything from one jab to 4 or 5 by now?. Stive Pesley 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted October 26, 2022 Share Posted October 26, 2022 3 minutes ago, Wolfie said: Not sure that will help much, to be honest. Excess death rates are far more likely to be higher among those vaccinated because, by definition, they are older and more vulnerable. Also, what is "vaccinated"? Do you have to have different bands for those who may have had anything from one jab to 4 or 5 by now?. It's a tricky one for sure. Don't publish that data and it's "what are they trying to hide from us! It's a conspiracy!" Do publish it, and despite the obvious caveats you mention it will be the purest form of raw data - ripe to be shaped into whatever conclusion the "it's a conspiracy!" lot want to draw from it None of this is productive, none of it is healthy for the minds of those that spend all day flailing angrily at their keyboards People need to start focussing on being positive and making the most of their lives Unless of course, on your death bed you really think you'll be saying "My one regret? I just wish I'd spent more time on the internet arguing with strangers" Anon, Wolfie, Crewton and 1 other 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norman Posted October 26, 2022 Share Posted October 26, 2022 Just now, Stive Pesley said: It's a tricky one for sure. Don't publish that data and it's "what are they trying to hide from us! It's a conspiracy!" Do publish it, and despite the obvious caveats you mention it will be the purest form of raw data - ripe to be shaped into whatever conclusion the "it's a conspiracy!" lot want to draw from it None of this is productive, none of it is healthy for the minds of those that spend all day flailing angrily at their keyboards People need to start focussing on being positive and making the most of their lives Unless of course, on your death bed you really think you'll be saying "My one regret? I just wish I'd spent more time on the internet arguing with strangers" Did you mean to describe yourself there? cstand and maxjam 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anon Posted October 26, 2022 Share Posted October 26, 2022 52 minutes ago, Stive Pesley said: People need to start focussing on being positive and making the most of their lives Yes, be positive and make the most of your life, unless of course the government decide to shut down the economy and ban you from going out again at some point in the future, then you should comply without question. Why, oh why would anyone waste time asking questions about the £300 billion spent on covid measures? Covid is past current thing, why aren't you talking about new current thing? maxjam and Stive Pesley 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted October 26, 2022 Share Posted October 26, 2022 55 minutes ago, Anon said: Yes, be positive and make the most of your life, unless of course the government decide to shut down the economy and ban you from going out again at some point in the future, then you should comply without question. Why, oh why would anyone waste time asking questions about the £300 billion spent on covid measures? Covid is past current thing, why aren't you talking about new current thing? Stay angry if you like Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted October 26, 2022 Share Posted October 26, 2022 1 hour ago, Norman said: Did you mean to describe yourself there? I'm not angry. So no. You on the other hand felt the need to attack me for posting words of positivity. Stay angry if you like. Doesn't bother me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxjam Posted October 26, 2022 Share Posted October 26, 2022 30 minutes ago, Stive Pesley said: Stay angry if you like Its not about staying angry, its more about holding people accountable and learning for the future. There are thousands of excess deaths worldwide and no one seems to care. It could be due to the vaccine, it could be due to lockdowns, it could be due to temperature, strain on healthcare, lack of exercise, mental health, etc - a multitude of reasons that no one seemingly wants to understand, which is scary given that the WHO maintain that the pandemic isn't over, favour mass vaccination, lockdowns and are continuing to push every nation into signing up to their ultimate power mandate for 'next time'. Add to that disappearing £millions from the various covid financial schemes, worldwide inflation due to paying printing money like its confetti and paying everyone to stay home and do bugger all, I personally think we should be taking a deep dive into every aspect of the past few years - see what worked, see what didn't and actually be better prepared for next time, not make the same mistakes again. But hey, the worlds moved on, nothing to see here. You're just an angry conspiracy nutjob if you actually dare to ask a question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfie Posted October 26, 2022 Share Posted October 26, 2022 3 minutes ago, maxjam said: Its not about staying angry, its more about holding people accountable and learning for the future. There are thousands of excess deaths worldwide and no one seems to care. It could be due to the vaccine, it could be due to lockdowns, it could be due to temperature, strain on healthcare, lack of exercise, mental health, etc - a multitude of reasons that no one seemingly wants to understand, which is scary given that the WHO maintain that the pandemic isn't over, favour mass vaccination, lockdowns and are continuing to push every nation into signing up to their ultimate power mandate for 'next time'. Interesting that you choose to avoid listing the long term effects of Covid itself being a possible cause of the current excess deaths. Got to be high on the list of likely cuplrits, surely. Crewton 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxjam Posted October 26, 2022 Share Posted October 26, 2022 Just now, Wolfie said: Interesting that you choose to avoid listing the long term effects of Covid itself being a possible cause of the current excess deaths. Got to be high on the list of likely cuplrits, surely. I didn't avoid listing anything, just added a bunch of random stuff that came into my head at time of writing. Happy to add long covid to the list and have a proper enquiry about that as well. I did read a US study stating that long covid was effecting the middle classes more than the working classes - just tried to find it but found this Guardian article instead, which suggested similar but then go on to explain thats not actually the case, its just that they are better positioned to continue taking time off work, paying for medical care etc (which was what I was thinking anyway to be fair) https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/oct/14/long-covid-care-access Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxjam Posted October 26, 2022 Share Posted October 26, 2022 Noting to see here either; https://www.bmj.com/content/379/bmj.o2527 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PistoldPete Posted October 26, 2022 Share Posted October 26, 2022 12 hours ago, uttoxram75 said: Governments should be able to show death rates from the vaccinated v the unvaccinated. Its not difficult. The information is available and should be published openly and honestly, no bias, no spin, just the truth. Thats all we want isn't it? No. Vaccinated population is older and more vulnerable. That’s why they were vaccinated. So you would expect higher death rates for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archied Posted October 26, 2022 Share Posted October 26, 2022 The sad part is there are people who were and are no way antivaxers who took the vaccine as they felt it was the civic and responsible thing to do and have died or been seriously injured by it , they and their grieving families are now labelled mad antivaxers because they want to at least have they’re plight recognised and be treated with respect not ignored , swept under the carpet , banned from Facebook and Twitter for talking about it or abused on those and other platforms for talking about it , niether myself or those who are so pro vaccine / covid measures can say at this point what the numbers involved are but surely it needs to be investigated for the sake of those affected and for future policy , remember these are people who Took the vaccine they are not the perceived enemy who choose not to take it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crewton Posted October 26, 2022 Share Posted October 26, 2022 23 minutes ago, Archied said: The sad part is there are people who were and are no way antivaxers who took the vaccine as they felt it was the civic and responsible thing to do and have died or been seriously injured by it , they and their grieving families are now labelled mad antivaxers because they want to at least have they’re plight recognised and be treated with respect not ignored , swept under the carpet , banned from Facebook and Twitter for talking about it or abused on those and other platforms for talking about it , niether myself or those who are so pro vaccine / covid measures can say at this point what the numbers involved are but surely it needs to be investigated for the sake of those affected and for future policy , remember these are people who Took the vaccine they are not the perceived enemy who choose not to take it I'd love to see the evidence which shows that people (and/or their families) who've suffered death or injury as a result of one of the vaccines are being labelled "mad anti-vaxers"? I think it's more likely that it's the people who haven't been vaccinated or damaged by a vaccine who jump on any instance of a death or injury due to a vaccine as incontrovertible evidence that they were right all along who are being called mad anti-vaxers like they have been all along. As to the question whether the long term health effects of Covid are being ignored, they aren't. Both my BiL and one of his daughters are taking part in just such a study. It's becoming clear that Covid is a particularly cunning virus that can have detrimental effects on almost every organ within the body and that's going to be a major area of study and research for years to come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archied Posted October 26, 2022 Share Posted October 26, 2022 (edited) 29 minutes ago, Crewton said: I'd love to see the evidence which shows that people (and/or their families) who've suffered death or injury as a result of one of the vaccines are being labelled "mad anti-vaxers"? I think it's more likely that it's the people who haven't been vaccinated or damaged by a vaccine who jump on any instance of a death or injury due to a vaccine as incontrovertible evidence that they were right all along who are being called mad anti-vaxers like they have been all along. As to the question whether the long term health effects of Covid are being ignored, they aren't. Both my BiL and one of his daughters are taking part in just such a study. It's becoming clear that Covid is a particularly cunning virus that can have detrimental effects on almost every organ within the body and that's going to be a major area of study and research for years to come. Ok here’s one place to start , investigate how she has been treated by those platforms , people on those platforms and the mainstream media , from there investigate further if you truly care , if not don’t bother and just stick to the partisan approach https://www.newsandstar.co.uk/news/21156286.were-suppressed-despite-inquest-vindication-vaccine-death-says-vikki-spit/ https://www.newsandstar.co.uk/news/20228905.vikki-spit-wins-first-astrazeneca-vaccine-compensation-settlement-fiances-death/ Edited October 26, 2022 by Archied Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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