The coronabrexit thread. I mean, coronavirus thread

[Archied]

6 minutes ago, 86 Hair Islands said:

Thank you and others too for the kind messages. Another sweaty night but feeling a deal better this morning. Temperature back close to normal range already, so I think I've been quite fortunate really as I already appear to be over the worst of it and even that was just uncomfortable rather than anything more serious. 

And while the sympathy is genuinely appreciated, the point of my post was really to remind folk that while Omicron seems likely to become the dominant strain, for now at least, and is by all accounts akin to nothing more than a common cold, for most at least, there still remains some risk to older folk and those with underlying health issues posed by other lingering and more virulent strains. To be honest, that fact had rather passed yours truly by as I've been blithely cracking on with life as normal since the relaxation of restrictions and most recently especially (save for popping on masks where required) as I'd mistakenly assumed all other strains were to all intents and purposes, done with. I've no idea why other than self-kiddology as much like everyone else, I'm sure, I'm somewhat Covid-weary. I also wrongly assumed that PCR tests differentiate between strains. They don't, so please don't assume that even if you do catch the virus, it will be plain-sailing, as it may not be. 

?, glad you are on the mend 

for me from the start of this ,no matter what variant the true facts have been that you are extremely unlucky if you suffer very badly or lose your life to covid rather than lucky if you catch it and are ok ,

I honestly don’t think enough focus has been put on why that is , why are some so badly affected and the best way to protect them without destroying the world as we know it , now some will call me far worse than just harsh for holding that view??‍♂️

[Comrade 86]

1 minute ago, Archied said:

?, glad you are on the mend 

for me from the start of this ,no matter what variant the true facts have been that you are extremely unlucky if you suffer very badly or lose your life to covid rather than lucky if you catch it and are ok ,

I honestly don’t think enough focus has been put on why that is , why are some so badly affected and the best way to protect them without destroying the world as we know it , now some will call me far worse than just harsh for holding that view??‍♂️

Thanks mate. 

While I grasp your point, until we have a more complete understanding of the virus, the prime focus has to be on saving lives and not just those afflicted by Covid. Ultimately, your proposed way forward may teach us how to better cope with future pandemics, but right here, right now, getting folk through this period is what I'd want the powers that be to address. That focus should also include support for afflicted businesses, the mental health of the nation and those awaiting treatment for non-Covid related ailments, etc.

I do think the the virulence (and therefore hopefully the inherent threat) of the virus is diminishing based on death count vs new case number ratios (somewhat flimsy science I concede), but I temper any such optimism with the thought that the virus could mutate again. A virus that combines the transmissibility of Omicron with the virulence of earlier strains could still be catastrophic even accounting for the benefits of vaccines.

My thinking currently would therefore be that we carry on as best we can, as god knows we all need some respite and normality, but remain vigilant and wary all the same. Covid in some form or other is now here to stay and there will be time for the kind of research you describe when those who would undertake it have more bandwidth. Of course it would have been useful had the government paid heed to their own studies already undertaken prior to the pandemic, but I suppose that's an unreasonable school of thought!

And FWIW, I don't see anything harsh in your view and I very much doubt anyone else will either. 

[Archied]

8 minutes ago, 86 Hair Islands said:

Thanks mate. 

While I grasp your point, until we have a more complete understanding of the virus, the prime focus has to be on saving lives and not just those afflicted by Covid. Ultimately, your proposed way forward may teach us how to better cope with future pandemics, but right here, right now, getting folk through this period is what I'd want the powers that be to address. That focus should also include support for afflicted businesses, the mental health of the nation and those awaiting treatment for non-Covid related ailments, etc.

I do think the the virulence (and therefore hopefully the inherent threat) of the virus is diminishing based on death count vs new case number ratios (somewhat flimsy science I concede), but I temper any such optimism with the thought that the virus could mutate again. A virus that combines the transmissibility of Omicron with the virulence of earlier strains could still be catastrophic even accounting for the benefits of vaccines.

My thinking currently would therefore be that we carry on as best we can, as god knows we all need some respite and normality, but remain vigilant and wary all the same. Covid in some form or other is now here to stay and there will be time for the kind of research you describe when those who would undertake it have more bandwidth. Of course it would have been useful had the government paid heed to their own studies already undertaken prior to the pandemic, but I suppose that's an unreasonable school of thought!

And FWIW, I don't see anything harsh in your view and I very much doubt anyone else will either. 

? we are not far off being on the same page as far as I can see

 

[Bob The Badger]

1 hour ago, 86 Hair Islands said:

Thanks mate. 

While I grasp your point, until we have a more complete understanding of the virus, the prime focus has to be on saving lives and not just those afflicted by Covid. Ultimately, your proposed way forward may teach us how to better cope with future pandemics, but right here, right now, getting folk through this period is what I'd want the powers that be to address. That focus should also include support for afflicted businesses, the mental health of the nation and those awaiting treatment for non-Covid related ailments, etc.

I do think the the virulence (and therefore hopefully the inherent threat) of the virus is diminishing based on death count vs new case number ratios (somewhat flimsy science I concede), but I temper any such optimism with the thought that the virus could mutate again. A virus that combines the transmissibility of Omicron with the virulence of earlier strains could still be catastrophic even accounting for the benefits of vaccines.

My thinking currently would therefore be that we carry on as best we can, as god knows we all need some respite and normality, but remain vigilant and wary all the same. Covid in some form or other is now here to stay and there will be time for the kind of research you describe when those who would undertake it have more bandwidth. Of course it would have been useful had the government paid heed to their own studies already undertaken prior to the pandemic, but I suppose that's an unreasonable school of thought!

And FWIW, I don't see anything harsh in your view and I very much doubt anyone else will either. 

I think the emphasis has shifted considerably.

Until omicron, I think the focus was on saving lives and helping the NHS.

Now, I think lives lost are so low compared to Delta and in conjunction with the vaccine and treatment, that it's all about the NHS not getting overwhelmed

The big concern is not people dying as much as it's the combination of people in hospital with covid and staff off sick or isolating meaning regular accidents and emergencies as well as routine screening/preventative medicine are suffering.

The latter may not be apparent for months or years and it will be almost impossible to measure accurately.

One thing I will say, is that I now know maybe half a dozen people who have had it and from them and what I have read it *seems* to be slightly worse than a normal cold whilst not being as bad as the flu.

If it can stay there, then I think we will start getting back to normal, but I think care and caution are called for in the short-term.

Glad you're feeling better matey!

 

Edited January 2, 2022 by Bob The Badger

[Guest]

6 hours ago, Eddie said:

If some of your sources are nutjob conspiracy theorists, which half a dozen contributors to this thread appear to subscribe to or at least gleefully espouse the messages contained therein, then enlightenment and the truth is shrouded in clouds of obfuscation. 

Occam's Razor states that the explanation containing the fewest assumptions is most likely to be correct.

I really am sorry that I come across as particularly harsh to some on here in this thread, but like I have said many times before, ignorance is acceptable and understandable - wilful ignorance is not. Of the people I know (which is, admittedly, a very small pool and because of my age, getting smaller by the year), the people espousing the nutjob theories are often those of (relatively) lower intelligence. I don't know anyone who is either the holder of a science degree or a member of Mensa who thinks that being vaccinated is a bad thing, either long or short-term.

To be able to define something as a nutjob conspiracy theory surely you actually have to listen to it first and prove why it is so obviously wrong.

The people that I know that wish serious illness and death upon other human beings that they do not know for no other reason other than them having a different opinion are usually quite intelligent, it doesn't really mean anything.

Do any of science degree holding, MENSA members have the long term data on the Covid vaccine?

[Guest]

3 hours ago, 86 Hair Islands said:

Which b our own admission, you yourself have not done

Dont remember that.

I probably read/listen/watch things that I disagree with much more than things I know I am likely to agree with.

[Bob The Badger]

1 hour ago, G STAR RAM said:

Do any of science degree holding, MENSA members

You may want to drop mentioning MENSA.

I used to be a member, so not everybody is smart.

[FindernRam]

A family tale in a confusing world:

My sister (mid 60's) lives with husband and 2 sons. Sons going to do work on the house after Christmas so mum and dad hightail it to a caravan in Devon. All fully jabbed apart from younger son who was scheduled for booster this week.

Younger son (late 20's) extremely fit builder, gets cold symptoms, LFT positive, PCR-OMICRON! Bed for 2 days; then day 3 almost back to normal. In meantime older brother totally symptonless told to isolate, then told to LFT, 2 negatives, them phone call to do PCR. POSITIVE. Still symptonless. Still isolating

Mother in Devon does 2 LFTs negative. 4:00 AM wakes unable to breath or swallow, throat and tongue swollen, NHS say A&E now or meet ambulance en-route! PCR positive Covid type unknown (by us). Symptoms so rare hospital and local GP never seen before but 111 called it Covid-tongue! 

A&E treatment and sent home same day, 3 days later feeling pretty normal apart from fatigue.

Husband LFTs everyday all negative, doesn't qualify for PCR (opposite to older brother) but told to isolate, then later gets another NHS call and told doesnt need to isolate but recommend LFT daily.

No wonder people are so baffled by all the info, and all 4 have complained about the NHS website questionnaires they have fill in. System unclear and crashes meaning start over each time.

[Eddie]

18 minutes ago, Bob The Badger said:

You may want to drop mentioning MENSA.

I used to be a member, so not everybody is smart.

I notice from your previous posts that you are an advocate of science-backed evidence supported by peer review, so not so dumb really.

[Eddie]

1 hour ago, G STAR RAM said:

Dont remember that.

I probably read/listen/watch things that I disagree with much more than things I know I am likely to agree with.

I don't.

Being deaf has one great advantage sometimes - crackpot websites showing shock-jock youtube video recordings don't tend to come with subtitles.

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, Eddie said:

I don't.

Being deaf has one great advantage sometimes - crackpot websites showing shock-jock youtube video recordings don't tend to come with subtitles.

How have you concluded that theyare crackpot websites showing shock jock YouTube recordings then out of interest?

[Stive Pesley]

11 hours ago, Anon said:

It is utterly laughable that you believe "fact checking" sites on a page 1 google hit are impartial.

Haha - yes, sorry I forgot I need to keep searching for the truth, until I find a sad bloke in a guy fawkes mask tell me how it really is

 

[Bris Vegas]

7 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

To be able to define something as a nutjob conspiracy theory surely you actually have to listen to it first and prove why it is so obviously wrong.

The people that I know that wish serious illness and death upon other human beings that they do not know for no other reason other than them having a different opinion are usually quite intelligent, it doesn't really mean anything.

Do any of science degree holding, MENSA members have the long term data on the Covid vaccine?

Wouldn’t it be the job of those making the claims to prove they are right, rather than the other way round?

It would be like me saying eating a whale’s intestine makes you stronger…Prove me wrong.

Those that share the minority opinion have to show clear evidence they are right. As they are going against popular belief.

I’ve seen multiple examples of claims being made without any evidence backing that up whatsoever. And when called upon, the response has generally been ‘look it up, do some research, it’s obvious etc.’

It’s not the receiver’s job to disprove, it’s the tellers job to prove their opinion/belief/theory.

[Comrade 86]

36 minutes ago, Bris Vegas said:

Wouldn’t it be the job of those making the claims to prove they are right, rather than the other way round?

It would be like me saying eating a whale’s intestine makes you stronger…Prove me wrong.

Err, that might not the best example of an outlandish claim... ?

QED: Whale meat is a valuable source of protein which in turn, linked to exercise regimes, promote muscle gain

[Bris Vegas]

19 minutes ago, 86 Hair Islands said:

Err, that might not the best example of an outlandish claim... ?

QED: Whale meat is a valuable source of protein which in turn, linked to exercise regimes, promote muscle gain

Well, any protein is good for muscle repair and growth. But good point.

Drinking whale’s urine helps you lose weight twice as quickly. Prove me wrong!

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

22 minutes ago, Bris Vegas said:

Well, any protein is good for muscle repair and growth. But good point.

Drinking whale’s urine helps you lose weight twice as quickly. Prove me wrong!

Whale vomit makes the components in perfume come together to smell nice .  Goes for a bomb.   I'll give it a go on the off chance

[GboroRam]

13 minutes ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said:

Whale vomit makes the components in perfume come together to smell nice .  Goes for a bomb.   I'll give it a go on the off chance

Still a better covid treatment than ivermectin and internalised bleach. 

[Ram-Alf]

21 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

Complete failure to properly investigate the origin of the Covid 19 virus would lead me to believe that public health is not their number one concern.

"Some commentators point to China’s COVID-19 funding to the WHO as a signal of its intent to win influence at the expense of the United States. “I think that’s been overstated,” said Davis, adding, “the problem that WHO faces is not a problem of being under the thumb of China”, but of needing a “very sensitive, prickly authoritarian state” to be a partner in global health issues.

The WHO’s reliance on shifting donor preferences makes it less stable, said Davis, explaining that budget uncertainty leads, for example, to the use of temporary consultants rather than established staff, leaving it “weaker as an institution overall”

[Eddie]

2 hours ago, 86 Hair Islands said:

Err, that might not the best example of an outlandish claim... ?

QED: Whale meat is a valuable source of protein which in turn, linked to exercise regimes, promote muscle gain

Needs to be taken regularly, but supplies are low and inconsistent.

"Whale meat again, don't know where, don't know when...".

[Red_Dawn]

Apologies if someone has already posted along these lines, I'm coming into the thread late.

Seems recovering from Omicron goes quite far in protecting against variants of Covid like Delta, and as a result a combination of its transmissibility and vaccinations could make hospitalisations and severe illnesses a thing of the past. 

I've had Omicron since Boxing Day and passed two LFTs now. Isn't all that bad, I'm almost glad to have caught it in a weird way.. 

https://www.ft.com/content/b3aa95ed-18b3-406a-b611-9845dd07bbbc

 

Edited January 2, 2022 by Red_Dawn