brady1993 Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 8 minutes ago, Uptherams said: Right now my strongest lineup is different to everyone's because I think we should play a different formation. But the idea that Sibley and Curtis Davies aren't in our strongest lineup for some of you, absolutely baffles me. I think most people here seem to be suggesting a different formation to be honest, there's only a couple I've seen suggest sticking with a 4231. Sibley absolutely should be. Davies however.... I just don't think you can play him unless your plan is sitting deep and hitting teams on the break. His pace makes a high line or aggresive press dangerous and his ability on the ball makes any kind of passing game much harder to pull off. Also I think he's been fairing increasingly worse against physical strikers; Akinfenwa had the beating of him on saturday and isn't the first striker this season either. And when we are defending deep (again down to pace) if he's not winning these duels consistently then it gets dangerous quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheron85 Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 1 hour ago, JW37 said: Marshall Byrne Wisdom Clarke Buchanan Bielik Shinnie Ibe Lawrence Jozwiak Waghorn Roos, Davies, Bird, Knight, Holmes, Sibley, CKR I still look at that side and think it should be a good one - That's a nicely balanced team for me Might swap our Shinnie for Knight and Sibley for Lawrence though to create a proper midfield 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCFC Kicks Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 4 hours ago, Ghost of Clough said: Goals win games and Lawrence (at the moment) will bring more goals to the team than Jozwiak 13 minutes ago, Chris_Martin said: But Jozwiak will assist more goals. They should both be playing, and Ibe as well when back. They're easily our best attacking players (as much as Lawrence annoys me). Lawrence should play centrally to get more shots off if they're playing 4-2-3-1. Striker Jozwiak Lawrence Ibe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i-Ram Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 9 minutes ago, Ellafella said: Ibe could be the firework that starts the spark. The arrival of Mac could be a huge factor in getting Ibe back on the pitch and firing again. Mac’s 1:1 is well known in the game. I am still struggling to understand why you, or any Mac Fanboy, think that McClaren is going to get involved in any training or 1:1 work with any player. We have an interim manager and 3 coaches to be working with the first team players, and McClaren is employed as a Technical Director and Advisor to the incoming board. You were advocating a few weeks back that you didn’t like groupthink, or some other nonsense, and that it was important the owner was properly advised on the strategic risks of player purchasing, and the opportunity cost of not spending money on key positions, and now, when we get someone employed to do just that you want him to undertake counselling sessions with one of our wingers. It’s muddled thinking at best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Clough Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 10 minutes ago, Chris_Martin said: Really.... Jozwiak's best: 9 goals and 7 assists in all competitions Lawrence's seasons with better records 19/20: 10 goals 17/18: 8 assists 16/17: 11 goals, 11 assists Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uptherams Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 15 minutes ago, brady1993 said: I think most people here seem to be suggesting a different formation to be honest, there's only a couple I've seen suggest sticking with a 4231. Sibley absolutely should be. Davies however.... I just don't think you can play him unless your plan is sitting deep and hitting teams on the break. His pace makes a high line or aggresive press dangerous and his ability on the ball makes any kind of passing game much harder to pull off. Also I think he's been fairing increasingly worse against physical strikers; Akinfenwa had the beating of him on saturday and isn't the first striker this season either. And when we are defending deep (again down to pace) if he's not winning these duels consistently then it gets dangerous quickly. Marshall plays as a sweeper keeper. Balls in behind or over the top aren't an issue. Davies also is nowhere near as slow as people try and make out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May Contain Nuts Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 Pretty much an impossible task. Take your pick! Marshall Byrne Clarke Davies Buchanan Bielik Sibley Knight Waghorn Jozwiak CKR or Marshall Byrne Clarke Davies Buchanan Bielik Bird Sibley Knight Jozwiak CKR (the only team I could fit Buchanan, Bird, Knight & Sibley all in at the same time) or Marshall Wisdom Davies Clarke Byrne Buchanan Bielik Waghorn Knight Jozwiak CKR or Marshall Byrne Davies Clarke Forsyth Bielik Lawrence Knight Jozwiak Waghorn CKR or Something else entirely if you want Widsom , Holmes or Shinnie playing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_Martin Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 4 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said: Jozwiak's best: 9 goals and 7 assists in all competitions Lawrence's seasons with better records 19/20: 10 goals 17/18: 8 assists 16/17: 11 goals, 11 assists How can you possibly compare them when they've had nothing in common. I.e, the same league, same manager, same teammates, etc,etc. you can only compare them this season, and so far Jozwiak has more assists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_Martin Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 4 minutes ago, Coconut said: Pretty much an impossible task. Take your pick! Marshall Byrne Clarke Davies Buchanan Bielik Sibley Knight Waghorn Jozwiak CKR or Marshall Byrne Clarke Davies Buchanan Bielik Bird Sibley Knight Jozwiak CKR or Marshall Wisdom Davies Clarke Byrne Buchanan Bielik Waghorn Knight Jozwiak CKR or Marshall Byrne Davies Clarke Forsyth Bielik Lawrence Knight Jozwiak Waghorn CKR or Something else entirely My vote is for the 'something else entirely'.? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCFC1976 Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 Marshall Bielik Davies Clarke Byrne Knight Sibley Shinnie Buchanan Lawrence or Jozwiak CKR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCFC Kicks Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 11 minutes ago, DCFC1976 said: Marshall Bielik Davies Clarke Byrne Knight Sibley Shinnie Buchanan Lawrence or Jozwiak CKR looks solid, but considering our main problem is scoring goals, won't we need more than 2 attackers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_Martin Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 39 minutes ago, brady1993 said: I think most people here seem to be suggesting a different formation to be honest, there's only a couple I've seen suggest sticking with a 4231. Sibley absolutely should be. Davies however.... I just don't think you can play him unless your plan is sitting deep and hitting teams on the break. His pace makes a high line or aggresive press dangerous and his ability on the ball makes any kind of passing game much harder to pull off. Also I think he's been fairing increasingly worse against physical strikers; Akinfenwa had the beating of him on saturday and isn't the first striker this season either. And when we are defending deep (again down to pace) if he's not winning these duels consistently then it gets dangerous quickly. I'm fairly sure Akinfenwa has the beating of any defender physically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_Martin Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 13 minutes ago, DCFC1976 said: Marshall Bielik Davies Clarke Byrne Knight Sibley Shinnie Buchanan Lawrence or Jozwiak CKR Too defensive for my liking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brady1993 Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 8 minutes ago, Uptherams said: Marshall plays as a sweeper keeper. You want Marshall doing that regardless. 9 minutes ago, Uptherams said: Balls in behind or over the top aren't an issue. Oh they can be, it's part of why we keep dropping into a lower defensive line and Davies is at least partly at fault for causing that line to be dragged back. The QPR goal was a classic example of this: 3 defenders maintaining a highline on the edge of the box, Davies drops into the box probably uncomfortable keeping the highline and plays the man on side without getting close enough to him. And it wasn't the first time it had happened in that game. Or look at Saturday how we progressively fell into a lower and lower defensive line. It's possibley tactical, it's possibley mentality but it's something you see time and time again when a defence can't back it's pace. You would have a better argument if he was consistently and aggresively winning his battles but he just isn't. Against Wycombe he only won 30% of his aerial duels in a game that became about that in contrast Clarke was the most dominant player in the air winning 80%. Akinfenwa came on and just sat between Davies and Wisdom and was way too consistently beating them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brady1993 Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 2 minutes ago, Chris_Martin said: I'm fairly sure Akinfenwa has the beating of any defender physically. I mean Clarke did fine against him but ultimately with that kind of player you want to push out and play a high line so if he wins the ball it's not dropping in the box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IslandExile Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 13 hours ago, RamNut said: I can’t even talk about it without needing immediate medication. ps. I don’t remember any long accurate passes. the fact that we swapped him for our £300k record signing, and after 23 games swapped him again for a £30k winger should tell you something. And the instigator of that "deal", and many similar deals, was none other than......<drumroll>..... Ladies and Gentlemen, I present to you......the one, the only..... Tommy "The Doc" Docherty ? And that's just one of many reasons why he will be remembered - even those who only go back to Paul Jewell - as the worst manager to have ever been in charge of Derby County. PS Masson wasn't a winger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brady1993 Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 If we play three at the back I think we'd want to go with Marshall Wisdom* Bielik Clarke Byrne Knight Bird Buchanan Sibley** CKR** Jozwiak** *This could probably be Te Wieirk as well who did ok there against Bournemouth **Rotate as needed with other forwards especially with 5 subs If we play a back 5 you need Bielik at the heart of it, you need someone good in the air, good on the ball and with an ability to break lines by carrying the ball. All three of those centre backs have the capability to come out with the ball but Bielik is very good at it. It also helps having a centre back who can step out and aggressively win the ball back before pinging it out to the wing back. As a midfield two you need a good balance of attributes. Ideally you want an energetic box to box player and someone who's going to sit playing passes. Knight is a ball of energy, aggresive in supporting the press, good on the ball and good at driving forward with the ball at his feet. Bird is technically and positionally excellent, his defensive work is underrated and is the most reliable player in possession we have to keep things ticking. Honestly it's the only midfield pair that I think actually makes sense aside from Bielik Bird in front of a four man defence or possibly Rooney Shinnie if he goes back to playing (although I'm not keen on that idea). Edit: Actually the more I think about it the more I think it's what we should go with for now. I want to see a 433 and think long term it's the best option but that would likely require more coaching than the 343 which we've already used. And a 343 provides more of a safety net whilst reintroducing some players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnigmaRam Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 Marshal Byrne. Davies. Clarke. Buchanan Bielik Knight. Lawrence Ibe. Kamil Kazim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_Martin Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 To a large extent it doesn't matter our strongest line up or best formation. We are just too passive in games, lack urgency, poor at pressing, strange tactics, etc,etc, Whatever happened to the days when we used to press teams high up the pitch and force them into mistakes. It seems like our opponents do this to us most matches. Also, why the constant chopping and changing? We were playing Wycombe at home, why suddenly change and try to play a direct game. We should and are good enough to be passing it around them. This was one of my big dislikes about Cocu, always changing things to try stop the opponent. We should just play our way and force them to deal with it. To me it just instantly sends out a message that we are worried and puts us on the back foot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade 86 Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 2 hours ago, Ghost of Clough said: Jozwiak's best: 9 goals and 7 assists in all competitions Lawrence's seasons with better records 19/20: 10 goals 17/18: 8 assists 16/17: 11 goals, 11 assists Hark at you Mr Facty McFactface. Not exactly cricket is it, when you ruin an anecdotal narrative with actual data. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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