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Experience matters


Mafiabob
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I know we are missing some players throughout first few games (Waggy, Lawrence, Bielik et al) but I think the daftest thing we probably did was let go and not fight for Hudds and Martin.

I hold my hands up and admit I’m wrong - I think we’ve messed up not giving Martin another improved offer to tie him down here. Desperate for brains and experience  up top.

Huddlestone, another in that midfield who would be able to use his brains and more importantly, the kids could learn from. Think he was worth another 12 months here. Some say he’s too “slow” but he had the quickest football brain at the club and could still get us moving forward quicker than we have been.

Just my thoughts. I don’t see any viable reason why we’ve let them go and we have got players better than them in the positions they would cover.

I’m also concerned about signing two players who probably won’t be fully fit until November. We will be third into the season then.

Not a happy Ram at the minute, I feel we will have much better days and we will climb the league. We are where we are. A bang average football club who were maybe an alright side many years ago.

 

 

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19 minutes ago, Mafiabob said:

I know we are missing some players throughout first few games (Waggy, Lawrence, Bielik et al) but I think the daftest thing we probably did was let go and not fight for Hudds and Martin.

I hold my hands up and admit I’m wrong - I think we’ve messed up not giving Martin another improved offer to tie him down here. Desperate for brains and experience  up top.

Huddlestone, another in that midfield who would be able to use his brains and more importantly, the kids could learn from. Think he was worth another 12 months here. Some say he’s too “slow” but he had the quickest football brain at the club and could still get us moving forward quicker than we have been.

Just my thoughts. I don’t see any viable reason why we’ve let them go and we have got players better than them in the positions they would cover.

I’m also concerned about signing two players who probably won’t be fully fit until November. We will be third into the season then.

Not a happy Ram at the minute, I feel we will have much better days and we will climb the league. We are where we are. A bang average football club who were maybe an alright side many years ago.

 

 

I agree with you. We have some of the building blocks, but the cement is missing due to a variety of reasons (injured, not fit, haven't arrived yet).

There is undoubtedly some talent at the club. It hasn't clicked for sure and that falls to the coaching staff.

We can't be waiting until November for a change in fortunes, we will be to far adrift by then.

This really is where Cocu and the management team earn their crust. I'm not ready to throw the towel in yet with him and his team. We've had far too much change over the past few seasons. We need some stability, but equally we need results to improve.

I'm not going to start having a melt down after 3 games, but the clock is definately ticking now.

I really think this team in particular is missing the crowd shouting them on. They need a boost!

 

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It’s a valid point, that experience needs to be replaced. At the moment we look a very young and naive team

35 minutes ago, Mafiabob said:

I know we are missing some players throughout first few games (Waggy, Lawrence, Bielik et al) but I think the daftest thing we probably did was let go and not fight for Hudds and Martin.

I hold my hands up and admit I’m wrong - I think we’ve messed up not giving Martin another improved offer to tie him down here. Desperate for brains and experience  up top.

Huddlestone, another in that midfield who would be able to use his brains and more importantly, the kids could learn from. Think he was worth another 12 months here. Some say he’s too “slow” but he had the quickest football brain at the club and could still get us moving forward quicker than we have been.

Just my thoughts. I don’t see any viable reason why we’ve let them go and we have got players better than them in the positions they would cover.

I’m also concerned about signing two players who probably won’t be fully fit until November. We will be third into the season then.

Not a happy Ram at the minute, I feel we will have much better days and we will climb the league. We are where we are. A bang average football club who were maybe an alright side many years ago.

 

 

 

Edited by jimbo jones
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1 hour ago, Uptherams said:

We've got an experienced defender in Curtis Davies. I'd like to see him playing. 

But Cocu would have to change his ideas on how the game is played. Davies can not play in the system that we are trying to implant. Cocu has to decide (or maybe he has done already) if he wants to stick to his principles or adjust his tactics until he has the players necessary.

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I agree in principle. Think we’re putting way too much pressure on the youngsters - I’ve said all along that I didn’t agree with Mel’s seeming insistence on playing academy players. I feel like we’ve put way too much focus on bringing through youngsters for the sake of it, rather than focusing on building the best possible side we can - which will probably include some young players, but not as many as we’ve thrown in the deep end recently. It’s a very risky strategy - I appreciate we’ve had great success at youth level which is a credit to the club, but not every player who’s good at U18s level will make it at first team level. There’s plenty of past evidence of that, but we seem to be almost assuming these players will step up and leaving ourselves short of proven first team players in the process - which in turn puts pressure on a load of 18 year olds to perform, which probably does more harm than good.

It doesn’t really help bringing through young players when we have such a lack of quality experienced players who can guide them through around them either. Rooney was obviously meant to be the man to deal with this problem, but he seems like he’d rather not be here, so it’s not working out. Whilst the likes of Huddlestone and Martin probably aren’t the sort of quality we’d like starting anymore, they are both vastly experienced clever footballers who would have been very useful to have in our squad. We’ve been very foolish in letting them go if we had any choice. I will add the caveat however, that if Martin was only going to accept the 3 year deal Bristol gave him, then it wouldn’t have made financial sense to keep him. In that case the decision is understandable, but he needs replacing, and quickly. 

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The sprogs aren’t the problem.

  • knight - constantly played out of position - still got an honourable mention
  • Sibley was forced to play centre forward because Rooney couldn’t do it.
  • Bird had our only shot on target 
  • Buchanan eventually emerged as one of our better players.
  • whittaker came on and looked bright

the older players are either dropped or playing badly.

  • rooney has rigor mortis 
  • Forsyth and shinnie were dropped 
  • te wierik and wisdom were pants
  • marriott was unceremoniously subbed.
  • even byrne’s crossing went to pot. 

But the real problem is that we are still an ill-assorted bag of mashings.

Despite all the praise for our transfer activity, we have still failed to address the obvious gaps.

Two weeks to go to sort it out.

 

 

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4 hours ago, Mafiabob said:

I know we are missing some players throughout first few games (Waggy, Lawrence, Bielik et al) but I think the daftest thing we probably did was let go and not fight for Hudds and Martin.

I hold my hands up and admit I’m wrong - I think we’ve messed up not giving Martin another improved offer to tie him down here. Desperate for brains and experience  up top.

Huddlestone, another in that midfield who would be able to use his brains and more importantly, the kids could learn from. Think he was worth another 12 months here. Some say he’s too “slow” but he had the quickest football brain at the club and could still get us moving forward quicker than we have been.

Just my thoughts. I don’t see any viable reason why we’ve let them go and we have got players better than them in the positions they would cover.

I’m also concerned about signing two players who probably won’t be fully fit until November. We will be third into the season then.

Not a happy Ram at the minute, I feel we will have much better days and we will climb the league. We are where we are. A bang average football club who were maybe an alright side many years ago.

 

 

Hudds said yesterday on soccer am that he had 2-3 years left playing foorball

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24 minutes ago, Rampage said:

Hudds said yesterday on soccer am that he had 2-3 years left playing foorball

Are we that tight financially that we couldn't afford to give Huddlestone and Martin a new contract? As much as we all want to cut down on the dead wood, you do need some proper experience in there. We are missing that at the minute because we've shifted out so many players over the last few years. It's alarming really how thin the squad has become.

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1 hour ago, Millenniumram said:

I will add the caveat however, that if Martin was only going to accept the 3 year deal Bristol gave him, then it wouldn’t have made financial sense to keep him.

This is based on what? They gave him a 2 year deal with the option on another (based on what?). He has never done an Anya, has always wanted to play. You saying that we wouldn't have been able to either sell or loan him out if things went 'wrong'?

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1 minute ago, RoyMac5 said:

This is based on what? They gave him a 2 year deal with the option on another (based on what?). He has never done an Anya, has always wanted to play. You saying that we wouldn't have been able to either sell or loan him out if things went 'wrong'?

Yes I am, not many teams will want to take on a 33 year old Martin’s wages if he does a Nugent and rapidly declines over the next year or so, which is very much possible. In our situation, that length of contract is too much of a risk. The one year with another year option we offered was sensible, but fair play to Martin for getting a better deal.

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4 minutes ago, Millenniumram said:

take on a 33 year old Martin’s wages

Except Bristol City for sure and other maybe. You have no idea what his wages ARE not were. It was inferred that length of contract was the problem. And if you think we couldn't make a Martin deal work and pay off then it shows how bad our recruitment team is.

Nugents game was based on headless chicken closing down. Martin's is based on intelligent play. Big difference.

Edited by RoyMac5
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No to Huddlestone in that he's a lesser version of Rooney. We offered Martin a contract and he turned us down. We've been paying him a huge wage over the years, especially ever since Mac's abortive attempt to bring him back from the Fulham loan. We are in a bad financial position where we have no choice but to wheel and deal and cut our cloth accordingly, and that means not paying Martin the wages he had previously.

We have injuries. The available experience in the squad we didn't use yesterday was Forsyth (31), Davis (35) and Shinnie (29). Then, for us, Holmes (25) and Clark (24) are relatively old heads.

I'd expect Fozzy, Shinnie, Holmes and Clark, and also Lawrence (26) to be in for the next game.

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3 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Except Bristol City for sure and other maybe. You have no idea what his wages ARE not were. It was inferred that length of contract was the problem. And if you think we couldn't make a Martin deal work and pay off then it shows how bad our recruitment team is.

Nugents game was based on headless chicken closing down. Martin's is based on intelligent play. Big difference.

Bristol City have taken him on now, while he’s still a good player. Big difference. They’ve taken a gamble with the contract length, fair play to them, they can probably afford the risk because they’ve been run better over the last few years. We’re in a much worse position than them, and can’t afford such a risk. It’s as simple as that. You can argue maybe we could have come to an agreement with Martin over a shorter initial contract with extension clauses based upon performance, but there’s no guarantee he would have taken that. We don’t know how the negotiations went down.

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1 hour ago, Rampage said:

Hudds said yesterday on soccer am that he had 2-3 years left playing foorball

He would grace nearly every Champ side easy over that period as well. I find it laughable people say he’s too slow and plays at a snails pace. The man had football brains on another level (and Martin) to the others.

When you’re crying out for a bit of control and nous in the middle. He is your man. The kids would learn a lot more from him as well.

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